New Political Forum

[ivwshane]

Good luck, and I mean that sincerely. It seems to me that striking that balance will be the key. In order for the new forum to be successful, it needs to maintain a critical mass of participants. If moderation is too strict, it will drive valuable posters away until the forum dies; too laissez-faire and it will be P&N Redux.

My personal hope is that you and EK can pay special attention to this:

8. Quality discussion requires sensible exchanges of logical arguments. Posters are expected to present their views in a rational manner, and to address counterarguments, rather than ignoring them and repeating claims. Those unable or unwilling to do this are not a good match for this forum. (In the immortal words of Monty Python: "An argument isn't just contradiction. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.")
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I know I'm a broken record on the subject, but I still believe insults are more of a cosmetic issue than a substance issue. Yes, one can improve the S/N ratio by reducing noise, but a weak signal with less noise is still weak. Increasing the signal level (i.e., more substantive content, more meat) also increases S/N by drowning out the noise. Hopefully people will bring not only improved civility to Debate Club, but also improved arguments.

Thats been my feeling as well. Keep the posts fact based and you can dress it up all you want. Just because you feel something to be true doesn't mean it is and just because you repeat it more or say it louder doesn't make it any more factual.

If you want to call Obama a muslim then provide facts, not hearsay or linking to other people who agree with you but also have no evidence.

Or you could just make it super easy and not allow any hyperbole, that would eliminate about half of the useless posts.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Just as a point of order -- I personally cannot answer pretty much any of the questions being asked about how the forum is going to operate, because I'm just as new to this as all of you are. Perk or other admins will have to fill in the details.

There will be a learning curve.

 

[dank69]

...

I think for this to be successful we need to strike a balance between ensuring reasonable behavior and not having everyone feel like they're walking on eggshells.

I disagree. I think if you want the new forum to be successful you want everyone to feel like they are walking on eggshells, at least at first. The second you let something slide you open yourselves up to criticism of bias. We all know the rules going in. If someone is getting heated up by the discussion it is probably because they have no business joining in.

You might want to think about making a list of topics that should be confined to P&N rather than debate and maybe a list of sources that are not to be used in the debate forum. Just spit-balling here, but for example you might want to keep jihadwatch and jews did WTC nutters out...

 

[dmcowen674]

The private Mutual Kiss My Ass Society, good luck with that.

No Thanks

The only thing you will have in there is people that agree with each other nodding their collective heads in sync.

You guys complained of a Liberal Circle Jerk in P&N so you make a private Conservative Circle Jerk?

That really makes sense

As promised in bold and posted above: One week off for you.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[waggy]

lol oh boy. should be interesting.

 

[Whiskey16]

Interesting - I like it! Will be applying for membership. It seems to me Charles will be good as a moderator.

Seconded, .

I think it would be best to keep this new forum visible to all in order to encourage new participation from lurkers. Nothing in it should become embarrassing to the hosts as the P&N had become.

 

[Lithium381]

I'm hoping to get approved, though I have had a few blemishes on my record. I'm pleased that CK will be a moderator, though. He and I don't always agree on the same subjects, but he's respectable to talk to and seems genuinely open to hear the other side of the argument. Hopefully I'm not labeled as a troll around here

 

[werepossum]

I suggest the idea that to start with, new threads require mod approval. It slows things down, but a lot of P&N is merely a link with "See, your side is crazy" reworded. That pretty much requires full-on Python or no response at all.

 

[Blackjack200]

I'm excited about this.

I disagree. I think if you want the new forum to be successful you want everyone to feel like they are walking on eggshells, at least at first.

Agree. I think some strict (but fair) moderation at the start could be helpful.

I suggest the idea that to start with, new threads require mod approval. It slows things down, but a lot of P&N is merely a link with "See, your side is crazy" reworded. That pretty much requires full-on Python or no response at all.

I think this is a good idea too. It might be too burdensome, but kicking off with a handful of fairly worded and thoughtfully conceived threads could really get things off on the right foot.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Totally nonpartisan too?

I would think that Eaglekepper and Charles still are allowed to participate in these discussions in the new forum....

 

[Whiskey16]

I suggest the idea that to start with, new threads require mod approval.

Totally unnecessary with mature and responsible posters.

 

[nextJin]

I suggest the idea that to start with, new threads require mod approval. It slows things down, but a lot of P&N is merely a link with "See, your side is crazy" reworded. That pretty much requires full-on Python or no response at all.

Bad idea imo, if there is no trolling is BS posts with more mature members it would likely just get no responses. Otherwise it will get old very quick for our mods.

Speaking of which I love a 3 strike rule with 24hrs, 1 week, then life time ban.

In the event of a rather outlandish verbal assault or what not it could lead to an immediate ban.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Frankly if you think you and EK represent a reasonable balance from a partisan perspective it either discounts EK's slant or calls your own into question. That's not to say it will color your moderating, but a ideologically balanced duo you aint.

I do not believe the moderators have to step back from their opinions. I believe the moderators should post as they would normally.

My thinking is that a mod is not going to sanction you for posting links or an opinion that is opposite what they post.
It is very easy to tell if somebody is trolling or attacking somebody....those issues are very evident and have nothing to do with a particular mods thoughts on a certain topic or beliefs.

I believe Eaglekeeper and Charles to be very qualified to make this new P&N successful.

There will always be those who will attack anything the mod does yet the mods will have proof and text from the post to determine if somebody is crossing the line.

 

[momeNt]

Can I make a suggestion?

Can POSTING privileges be applied for and granted/denied, but viewing privileges be allowed like any other forum (L&R excepted).

I think that will increase the popularity and maybe spur some better behavior so previously denied people can work towards better behavior to be allowed to post once they see how fun sane discussion can be.

 

[airdata]

Which is why Charles was selected and I was asked to come out of retirement; to ensure that it does not become a cess pool

Well, I have you on ignore so clearly you've participated in some of the behavior outlined in the title.


I'll be watching my watch to see how long it takes for me to get an infraction for this post.






Hey, forget the infraction. You get that PLUS a weeks vacation, AND an automatic disqualification from the new forum.

Keep it up folks, you're making this easy for us to see the trolls that want in the new forum.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[EagleKeeper]

Can I make a suggestion?

Can POSTING privileges be applied for and granted/denied, but viewing privileges be allowed like any other forum (L&R excepted).

I think that will increase the popularity and maybe spur some better behavior so previously denied people can work towards better behavior to be allowed to post once they see how fun sane discussion can be.

1) I do not know if such can be accomplished with what vB tools we have. It would be nice and I will ensure that such gets presented

2) Much will depend on how the people acted prior to and after being disciplined.
Some will not be allowed in because of their past behavior - no debate on that. Most moderators will concur on such decisions.
NOTE: The determination on exclusion of participants will not be on the shoulders of any one Moderator

 

[CrackRabbit]

Well, I'm not sure how I feel about this.:\
I would like to join but I have a feeling the infractions I've received would probably keep me out.
Would the mods be willing to consider a "probation" for those of us who want to, for lack of a better term, escape regular P&N but have a "troubled" past?
Instead of three strikes, be given only one with a review at a later date to remove the probation?

 

[werepossum]

Well, I'm not sure how I feel about this.:\
I would like to join but I have a feeling the infractions I've received would probably keep me out.
Would the mods be willing to consider a "probation" for those of us who want to, for lack of a better term, escape regular P&N but have a "troubled" past?
Instead of three strikes, be given only one with a review at a later date to remove the probation?

Isn't everyone going to be there pretty much on probation? There are damned few of us in P&N who have not at some point used some version of "Jane, you ignorant slut!" Being civil 100% of the time will be hard for many of us, myself included.

 

[highland145]

1) I do not know if such can be accomplished with what vB tools we have. It would be nice and I will ensure that such gets presented

Tell them they can't post but can view, ban them if they post.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Isn't everyone going to be there pretty much on probation? There are damned few of us in P&N who have not at some point used some version of "Jane, you ignorant slut!" Being civil 100% of the time will be hard for many of us, myself included.

Some of us were a bit more, um, zealous with it, than others. :whiste:

Basically, for those that might be on the border of being allowed in or not. Give them a single chance to prove they can behave like an adult instead of the normal 3 strikes for a fully allowed member. If that makes sense.

 

[momeNt]

Tell them they can't post but can view, ban them if they post.

Hopefully it can be accomplished.

Would be a pain as a moderator to be cross-checking posts to some approved lists of posters. Although I don't see why anybody would risk a vacation just to get probably 1 post in, but you never know.

 

[amdhunter]

Will News get its own forum? Or will there be overlapping forums?
EDIT: So the new forum is invite only?

So then, if I understand it correctly, it will be:

Invite-only Politics forum for good standing members only
+ Everyone P&N forum for all members.

Or am I misunderstanding?

Damn. Just how bad was P&N getting?

 

[Blackjack200]

Some of us were a bit more, um, zealous with it, than others. :whiste:

Basically, for those that might be on the border of being allowed in or not. Give them a single chance to prove they can behave like an adult instead of the normal 3 strikes for a fully allowed member. If that makes sense.

I don't know your posting history that well, but there are certain users that routinely begin new threads with inflammatory content and dubious-at-best sources. When they are accused of trolling they just get indignant, they are not the type to come in to this thread practically begging for another chance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the fact that you're in here, not trolling, expressing interest and excitement in the new forum, well that should be worth something...?

/shrug

PS: I looked at your some of your recent posting history and I can't figure out what it is you're worried about. Unless there is stuff that I'm not seeing... yes, some of your posts are the type that I hope wouldn't be tolerated in the new forum, but I'd think the ones that are going to be kept out from the start are the ones that troll almost exclusively.

 

[blankslate]

Is there an idea when this forum will become active?

What will the application process look like? will it be a thread or will people have to send a PM of their application to each moderator of the new forum?

Will applicants be required to provide links to their "best" posts? If not will that be allowed?

Will there be any rules regarding links to a site? because I have seen one or two instances of data being taken out of a site and used to support an idea then going to that site and looking at all the pages and finding pages a pages of raw data that needed an hour or two to run through spreadsheet to check the assumption.

 

[Newbian]

It will continue to decline into more of a cesspool than it already is with everyone serious and not crazy in the other forum.

This is what I am worried about.

I rarely come here to make posts and just visit for some news updates but if you remove the few that are decent posters and post great feedback / issues then you are simply killing off P&N for many people and making it even worse.

We will have to see and hope the new forum is visible for everyone so we can still get news if the original p&n gets even worse.