• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."
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New Political Forum

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,152
3,754
136
Welcome to our brave, new experiment, an additional politics and new forum that hopefully will be free of the regrettable personal attacks and sloppy posting that many feel presently infests the current P&N.

Since there remains a substantial constituency that more or less likes the often rough give and take of our present P&N, that forum will continue.

Choice is good, right?

Admission to this new forum will be, perforce, perhaps severely restricted, solely at moderator discretion. What that means is that those posters with a documented record of misbehavior need not apply. In addition, sadly, there are some P&N posters who have majorly skirted the line of decent, or even "sane" behavior. These posters need also not apply.

Applications will be taken through Moderator Discussions. You may apply but one time, and will receive a yea or nay within at least one week. You must accept our decision without further comment. Continuing to clutter MD and presume upon our volunteer time will be considered sanctionable trolling.

Patience. We no longer have that much.

We anticipate an adjustment period for even the most mannerly of posters. Therefore, as many as three warnings, formal or informal, will be given to those who, perhaps inadvertantly, contravene our new rules.

After that, though, be forewarned that moderator action will be swift and draconian. If posting at AnandTech is a privilege, then posting in this new forum is even more so. We simply will not tolerate trolls, or the mentally or emotionally immature.

This is an experiment. Please work with us in a spirit of enlightened cooperation to make it a success. The rules, and how we enforce them, can and will be subject to improvement as we go. Work with us, and all may benefit. But if you chose not to, we will swiftly dis-invite you.

Finally, please forgive the seemingly harsh and imperious tone of this introduction. If moderating AT can at times be likened to herding cats, than moderating such a fractious and emotionally charged topic as politics is more like attempting to herd rabid tigers.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,152
3,754
136
To moderate our new forum, Debate Club, please welcome our newest moderator, CharlesKozierok, and welcome back a longtime friend and distinguished Admin, EagleKeeper.

You who are about to join, salute them!
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,152
3,754
136
General Conduct Rules
---------------------

1. All standard AT forum guidelines apply, including the #1 rule, to which participants should pay particular attention: "No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed."

2. If you post a thread, it should either be about a current and topical news event, or about a particular issue you are putting up for discussion. If the latter, you must lay out your position so the thread has a reasonable starting point. Just posting a link is unacceptable.

3. If posting about a news story, the onus is on you to use an honest, straightforward, and factual title for your thread. Merely copying a title that is inflammatory or non-factual from a blog is not acceptable. Additionally, you must put your own views in the first post.

4. Attack ideas, not people. (If you find yourself angry, perhaps waiting an hour before replying would be wise.) Note that it is generally acceptable to make negative comments about public figures where relevant, but keep them constructive. For example: "Barack Obama is a hypocrite for continuing to use drone strikes" as opposed to "Barack Obama is a secret Muslim who hates America".

5. Sometimes an otherwise productive thread will get heated due to a misunderstanding, or gradual escalation of tone. Where possible, the moderators will intervene to encourage everyone to cool down and get back on topic, rather than trying to identify individual culprits. Official action will be taken when a particular poster stands out in terms of violating the guidelines.

6. No armchair moderating. If you see something you consider inappropriate, report it, and we'll deal with it. As a reminder, something is not automatically "trolling" just because you disagree with it or find it offensive.

7. No misquoting other posters in quoted replies. If you quote another poster, it must remain verbatim.


Productive Debate Guidelines
----------------------------

8. Quality discussion requires sensible exchanges of logical arguments. Posters are expected to present their views in a rational manner, and to address counterarguments, rather than ignoring them and repeating claims. Those unable or unwilling to do this are not a good match for this forum. (In the immortal words of Monty Python: "An argument isn't just contradiction. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.")

9. Respect the original poster's intentions and stay on topic. If you want to discuss something else, start your own thread. If you have a pet peeve, do not attempt to insinuate it into any thread where it is not directly relevant.

10. A link to a video or a book is not an argument. Feel free to use media to support your position, but use your own words to make clear what you are trying to say.

11. If an argument relies substantially on an appeal to authority, such as the author of an article or an expert, it is appropriate for someone who disagrees to impeach that authority's credibility.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,152
3,754
136
So, from this point on, what IS acceptable in P&N?
Until further notice, P&N will continue as it has.

The institution of this new forum is not license to increase one's bad behavior in the present P&N.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,392
31
91
I don't see anything. Is this going to be a private, hidden forum; or open to viewing by the public?
A hidden forum will likely quickly become a ghost town, with no fresh blood entering and no audience to make a performance worthwhile.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
4
0
I don't see anything. Is this going to be a private, hidden forum; or open to viewing by the public?
A hidden forum will likely quickly become a ghost town, with no fresh blood entering and no audience to make a performance worthwhile.
It has not been turned on yet; fine tuning the rules and bouncing what-ifs off of each other in advance.

We are trying to apply the lessons learned from OT & P&N as well as the positive results from the technical side of the forums.
 

DaTT

Garage Moderator
Moderator
Feb 13, 2003
13,253
94
91
I am interested in possibly venturing into this club. Where do i sign?
 

nextJin

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2009
1,848
0
0
Looks like they took the comments to heart finally. I should probably stop trolling the LA Cops thread.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
The thing I'm curious about is this sounds solely like a way to keep the crazies out of threads. Wouldn't there be an easier way? Can't you just restrict their access to P/N if that's what you are trying to do?
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,290
6
0
So there's gonna be two P&N's? One for sane members, and another for Incorruptable and Moonbeam to duke it out?
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
4
0
It will continue to decline into more of a cesspool than it already is with everyone serious and not crazy in the other forum.
Which is why Charles was selected and I was asked to come out of retirement; to ensure that it does not become a cess pool
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
26,739
3,718
126
I think it sounds great. Even if there's a lower post count there it should much more interesting to read.

I know I'm actually interested in a lot of the attitudes towards political issues you guys have, particularly the ones that I don't particularly agree with. It would be nice to have somewhere that let's us talk about that without trolling, shouting or brow beating.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
0
0
Which is why Charles was selected and I was asked to come out of retirement; to ensure that it does not become a cess pool
I think he was referring to the current P&N, which we will not be moderating.

I am grateful to the AT admins for trusting me with this role despite being relatively new here. As many of you know, I've been advocating for this subforum for quite a while.. so I guess this is me putting my money where my mouth is. :)

I think EK and I represent a reasonable balance from a partisan perspective.

I don't think anyone can really predict how this will all turn out, but I think it's a worthwhile experiment. I have my own ideas of what I'd like to see eventually happen, but there's not much point in speculating.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Which is why Charles was selected and I was asked to come out of retirement; to ensure that it does not become a cess pool
I think he was referring to the current P&N, which we will not be moderating.

I am grateful to the AT admins for trusting me with this role despite being relatively new here. As many of you know, I've been advocating for this subforum for quite a while.. so I guess this is me putting my money where my mouth is. :)

I think EK and I represent a reasonable balance from a partisan perspective.

I don't think anyone can really predict how this will all turn out, but I think it's a worthwhile experiment. I have my own ideas of what I'd like to see eventually happen, but there's not much point in speculating.
To both of you, I offer both congratulations and condolences. I've always thought moderating here is a thankless job, especially in P&N. Kudos to both of you for being willing to wade into the fray. Here's hoping that those participating in Debate Club are sincere in their desire for productive discussion, making your jobs easy (and making it a useful forum for everyone).
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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Applications will be taken through Moderator Discussions. You may apply but one time, and will receive a yea or nay within at least one week. You must accept our decision without further comment. Continuing to clutter MD and presume upon our volunteer time will be considered sanctionable trolling.
Should we submit applications starting immediately or wait until the new forum has been set up? Because I'm very interested in this. It sounds like what I've been hoping P&N could be for quite some time. Kudos to the moderators for helping foster a more mature climate for political/religious debate.
 

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