Enlighten me then: How does slow turn speeds, long reloads, poor armor matter for arty?
Yes, you relocate slower. Yes, you may have lower DPM. Yes, you might never bounce a shell. Yes, you might turn like an IS-4. :awe:
But please explain to me why any of this matters when your engagement distance is generally over 600m away. If you're making the assertion that "these stats matter", you should at least give some reason. "You get counter-artied easier" should not be the only reason why these stats matter.
I think you missed the point I was making with those stats. I was mentioning them to say they're the arty equivalent of the points you were making about non-arty tanks.
Again, there's a rock paper scissors issue between tanks. Match after match, arty says 'kill the scouts', and mediums say 'kill the heavies', and scouts say 'kill the mediums', and heavies say 'arty sucks'. Every tank has its strengths and weaknesses. If you just cherry pick the issues to raise you can make any tank look weak.
Looking at the big arties - the t92's, 261's, typ e's - they can't dogfight, they can't run, they can't fire quickly, they're easily killed in close combat. That's their downside, against their strengths of remote fire and high damage. The large majority of non-arty tanks have plenty of options to not get killed by arty that much - not entirely, obviously, or arty would be useless - between cover and movement. A tank even moving a few feet while idle can make an arty shot miss entirely while it flies no matter how nicely aimed.
And when arty does miss, which is all too easy, it's a very long reload to try again.
Peekaboo in your heavy and miss a shot, sorry wait a few seconds and try again.
There's another benefit to non-arty - in close combat there aren't three seconds for the enemy to move away from your shot.
For me: The only thing those soft attributes really protect you from is a zealous scout, and they are needed so you can't kill those scouts reliably when they're trying to circle you. Otherwise arty would be able to hit zig-zagging flies as easily as any other tank. Let's be honest here: If a batchat gets through, you're fucked regardless of how fast or how much armor you have.
Case in point: Batchat arty was nerfed precisely because it was able to shotgun with the auto loader: You can run in, fire 3-4 shots, and pretty much destroy any tank while they're reloading.
I agree there, batchat arty has more advantages than the others.
Fun fact: I've also side scraped in my OBJ 212 before, so lets not say that it's impossible to do so. I managed to eat 2 shots, which gave me enough time to reload and blow away the E100 that was trying to kill me.
And that's an exception. How many shots by an E100 at an arty don't one shot the arty? And the E100 has a big advantage in getting the first shot in close combat.
Arty does require some unique skills, but only because of how different it is from other tanks. I'll also note that I feel counter battery is not so much skill as it is guesswork unless you have teammates telling you where they are receiving fire from. I'll also argue it's easier to counter battery tank destroyers because they fire more frequently and some are slower than arty.
With no offense it sounds like you don't appreciate playing well at counter battery because you're not that familiar with how demanding it can be - so you think it's luck.
Of course there is some guesswork, but also a lot of skill to improve the odds. No other tank makes you stare at the empty map for 4 minutes barely blinking with the same intensity trying to catch a few pixels from somewhere for a fraction of a second. Not many players seem able to do that well.
There's some skill of course for tanks in their combat, the fake movements to get the enemy to miss, the fast aim after a move, but arty trying to hit a moving target, trying to counter while correctly guessing the direction and distance an enemy arty you can't see is most likely to have moved after shooting, even the map strategy other tanks don't face of analyzing which targets on the map will help the team the most take their own skills.
Do you take out that especially tough tank, or do you help that other player get saved when he's outnumbered, or do you take the easy target or wait for a key location target?
Your pick can change the battle. Normal tanks don't have do that - they only pick among a few enemies where they are, hopefully focus fire.
If you just shoot at the first red dot, that's not playing your arty well.
A different topic would be which tank does better with a 'bad player', but that's not the topic I'm discussing.
Let me clarify. After firing, you have about 2 seconds to relocate before counter battery reaches you. After which it's a guess as to where your arty is, so you have 23 more seconds to find a completely different spot if you so wish. Let's face it: if you miss the counter battery, it's very difficult to find the guy's new spot if he has half a brain.
In thousands of battles, I will say I have all but never seen arty move much to avoid counter. Largely that's because they're so slow it's about two minutes between shots.
In over 99% of the situation, arty either doesn't move - it happens a lot - or moves just enough to avoid a counter where it was or a little bit further. Arty aim times are very long and arties don't want to lose even more shot time by a long move and then a long aim costing them shots.
I also won't disagree that arty is the most team dependent piece on the field. I also hate how powerless arty is in the case of flanks being left open and a scout gets through. But that's the way it should be. Open flanks kill every single tank, arties just die faster. Flanking and pincering armies is a very textbook military tactic for a reason.
Ya, I'm not saying it should change, just pointing out on the rock paper scissors that it's a disadvantage for arty you didn't mention, only listing the bad points for other tanks.
Over all, I still don't believe arty takes much of any sort of skill to play. You can be good at it, but it's very easy to get "good" at arty in comparison to driving a batchat, a vk2801 or a T110E5 when half of your shot is RNG. But we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
Well I agree those tanks have skills to learn also - I have vk2801 and t110e5 - but I'll still say arty takes more skill to play 'well'.
edit: spall liner is not 50% reduction. There's some math from the test server that puts it at around 5-10% more effective than the current one. So for a 1k damage splash, you'll receive 700 damage instead of 800. Hardly something to write home about when 2-3 shots kill you. This is on an E-100, so anything with less armor will see diminished results.
Well, that's good news; here's what the wargaming note says:
Reworked additional absorption bonuses for Spall Liners: Small Spall Liner 20 % (was 15%).
Medium Spall Liner 25% (was 15%).
Large Spall Liner 30% (was 15%).
For heavy tanks of more than 70 tons added super-heavy spall liner with additional absorption coefficient of 50%
It's funny, in a lot of battles in my non-arty when I ask arty to counter, none know how.
And they're messing with that, too in 8.6. Not only are all non-arty tracers being turned off - which isn't that big a deal, it's rare to shoot a non-arty from a tracer - but they're reducing the range arty tracers can be seen so it sounds like you won't be able to counter at all in some cases. Which seems odd, because I thought they wanted arty counterng to take arty out of the game because of player complaints. If arty are busy countering, they're not shooting tanks much.
Of course, all top tier tanks except arty are getting about a 10% boost to the points earned...
One other thing, most tankers like the 'fun factor' of tanks with a lot more action, not getting a small number of shots off with a lot of waiting while there are no shots playing arty.
That's not a 'skill' issue, but it does prevent a lot of players from being able to stand playing it.
I think it's a lot better balanced than you do. Your heavy can go attack the tank in cover around the corner, while arty can do nothing about it.