[MMO] World of Tanks

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Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
I get bored with the game at times. More like frustration with world of arty but I find slipping down to the low tiers can be much more fun when things get like that. I like to pull out my tier two T-26 and have a blast playing it. Games at this tier is just so fun and addicting. I also like to play around in my tier five T-34.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,830
324
126
I still don't understand the hate for arty. Just learn the fricking map! There is arty cover on every map. Learn where it is located. Learn to recognize what direction the arty fire is coming from so you can open up even more cover and can direct your scouts to where the arty are sitting. Learn to face-hug enemy tanks so that they are between you and the arty to make it impossible for the arty to hit you without hitting their own team. Learn how to count the reload timer down for enemy arty so you can move when they are reloading. Learn how to move while not being spotted by enemy tanks/scouts. Learn to fricking play the game....
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,648
61
101
I still don't understand the hate for arty. Just learn the fricking map! There is arty cover on every map. Learn where it is located. Learn to recognize what direction the arty fire is coming from so you can open up even more cover and can direct your scouts to where the arty are sitting. Learn to face-hug enemy tanks so that they are between you and the arty to make it impossible for the arty to hit you without hitting their own team. Learn how to count the reload timer down for enemy arty so you can move when they are reloading. Learn how to move while not being spotted by enemy tanks/scouts. Learn to fricking play the game....
All this means is learn to bring smores to the arty camp fest. "Learning to play" shouldn't be 98% arty avoidance, and 2% oh yeah there are other tanks... which is what it kind of is now.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
I still don't understand the hate for arty. Just learn the fricking map! There is arty cover on every map. Learn where it is located. Learn to recognize what direction the arty fire is coming from so you can open up even more cover and can direct your scouts to where the arty are sitting. Learn to face-hug enemy tanks so that they are between you and the arty to make it impossible for the arty to hit you without hitting their own team. Learn how to count the reload timer down for enemy arty so you can move when they are reloading. Learn how to move while not being spotted by enemy tanks/scouts. Learn to fricking play the game....
You assume that people who complain about arty are the terribads that don't know how to cover, how move from cover to cover so they don't get 1 shotted by arty, etc etc. There's so many things ignorant and just plain wrong about your statement so I'll rehash what's been said time and time again. Arty is only a problem in big groups, which they are in tier 9 and 10 battles. It's also why most people don't play tier 9 and 10.

Biggest complaint is Arty takes no skill to play. Ignore armor, angling, terrain, penetration values, weak spots and just click and let RNG do the work. The only thing you need to do is be able to move to a "good spot" and wait until your circle gets small. Or maybe lead the tank a bit, but the splash will likely get them anyway. You might need to move a bit and learn "popular" spots, but the skill ceiling on arty is extremely low. Oh, scream at your team for letting scouts through, that's important.

"errrrmargghhh, find cover"

Precisely what good players do. Hump a rock for 10 minutes because if you leave cover, you get instagibbed. Arty CAUSES camping, especially if they are present in groups greater than TWO. You can chain track any tank with 3 arties, repair kits be damned. 2 if you have fast firing arties like the LOR series and the GW panther. Again, this is for arty-parties. One arty or even 2 per game is fine... until you get 1 shotted without doing anything. Which brings to point 3.

Arty's enormous alpha makes it almost trivial to 1 shot tanks. Angles and armor be damned, its mostly RNG. Pen? 1 shot or almost 1 shot. No pen? Do lots of damage. Ignore terrain cover, hulling down, armor, angles, weakspots, flanking and just click away. I've seen hummels and m41s take out tier 7s and 8s with >1k hits. Very happy when that happens to the good players on the other team because no amount of skill can overwrite orbital laser barrage.

The difference between a good arty player and a bad one is miniscule. If RNG is good to you, you carried. If RNG is bad to you, ain't jack diddly squat you can do about it. One game I 1 shotted the tier 10 Foch, nailed an E-100 for 1.3k damage and 1 shotted an E-50 (or e-50m, can't remember). Very entertaining as I got to finish my sandwich and watch my team's bads swarm the weakened flank without knowing how to drive tier 10 tanks.

Arty's the reason why world of tanks will have a hard time becoming an "e-sport" game. It's a gameplay mechanic that rewards luck instead of skill.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
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Poweryoga, that's a lot of nonsense. Pretty much every point, including that playing arty well takes the most skill of any tank type.

And it's a lot more possible to not get his by arty than you suggest generally. You complain about three arty on one tank, that happens constantly... right.

Let's compare it to three autoloaders on one tank, three mediums on one tank, three heavies on one tank... oh, they also are a problem.

Arty is the tank most vulnerable to counter-arty, the tank that has to stay out of cover to do anything.

On and on for your points, not correct.
 
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PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Poweryoga, that's a lot of nonsense. Pretty much every point, including that playing arty well takes the most skill of any tank type.
Disagree. I won't call the ability to watch a reticule shrink "skill". :awe: On a more serious note, lets also keep in mind I'm talking about the big arties at tier 9 and 10.

I'm being somewhat harsh, but arty has the absolute lowest skill ceiling out of any "Tank". There is literally no punishment or repercussion from being a terrible arty player because it's more luck based than anything. (you might get counter-artied if you don't move, sometimes)

Note: I don't consider moving to a place where you can shoot something "skill". It's called common sense.

Playing arty, you don't need to care about half of the things you would playing a normal tank. Like armor, angling, hulling down, flanking, etc. You just care about whether you can whack that mole. A good player can play an Arty well, but its hard to tell the difference between a good arty player and a lucky moron arty player. I've seen terribads with 45% arties carry the game.

And it's a lot more possible to not get his by arty than you suggest generally. You complain about three arty on one tank, that happens constantly... right.

Let's compare it to three autoloaders on one tank, three mediums on one tank, three heavies on one tank... oh, they also are a problem.
Possible, but that means you hump the same 2-3 rocks all game. The best games I have are ones where I can actually utilize the FULL battlefield to flank, exploit weaknesses, backstab, etc. With arty-party: I hump a cliff until their tanks die.

Here's the difference. With 3 autoloaders, 3 mediums, 3 heavies.... I can shoot back, I can angle, I can sidescrape, I can ram. My armor matters, my angling matters, my selection of skills matters, where I move matters. I'm not instagibbed by people 600m away that I can't shoot back.

I've personally taken out 3 tanks myself while knife fighting in an IS4 because they were terrible players and I wasn't. What kills me in the end? GW Panther from the other side of the map. I'm pretty sure I still have the replay somewhere if you want to watch it but it's probably pre 8.5. To be fair, I expected it since he was shooting me all game and I was the only one defending a flank.

Also ask a tier 10 heavy player how many arties are assfucking him every game. There's a reason nobody plays the Maus anymore. I play arty with my friend: if both of us are targeting a tank there's a good chance we'll keep him chain tracked or kill him before he can do shit. Need a 3rd clicker to platoon with.

Arty is the tank most vulnerable to counter-arty, the tank that has to stay out of cover to do anything.

On and on for your points, not correct.
So? The arty's distance from all the firefights is his cover. That's kind of a silly point to make considering the arty is generally 800 m away from tanks at most times and tanks don't even render beyond 650 (?) m tops. Plus most of the time you're behind bushes which makes the tank even less visible. Also to avoid counter arty: Move 10 feet after shooting, you have 25 seconds to go somewhere nice and cozy.

So no, I'm not incorrect. But I'll stop beating the dead horse now.
 
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Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
You assume that people who complain about arty are the terribads that don't know how to cover, how move from cover to cover so they don't get 1 shotted by arty, etc etc. There's so many things ignorant and just plain wrong about your statement so I'll rehash what's been said time and time again. Arty is only a problem in big groups, which they are in tier 9 and 10 battles. It's also why most people don't play tier 9 and 10.

Biggest complaint is Arty takes no skill to play. Ignore armor, angling, terrain, penetration values, weak spots and just click and let RNG do the work. The only thing you need to do is be able to move to a "good spot" and wait until your circle gets small. Or maybe lead the tank a bit, but the splash will likely get them anyway. You might need to move a bit and learn "popular" spots, but the skill ceiling on arty is extremely low. Oh, scream at your team for letting scouts through, that's important.

"errrrmargghhh, find cover"

Precisely what good players do. Hump a rock for 10 minutes because if you leave cover, you get instagibbed. Arty CAUSES camping, especially if they are present in groups greater than TWO. You can chain track any tank with 3 arties, repair kits be damned. 2 if you have fast firing arties like the LOR series and the GW panther. Again, this is for arty-parties. One arty or even 2 per game is fine... until you get 1 shotted without doing anything. Which brings to point 3.

Arty's enormous alpha makes it almost trivial to 1 shot tanks. Angles and armor be damned, its mostly RNG. Pen? 1 shot or almost 1 shot. No pen? Do lots of damage. Ignore terrain cover, hulling down, armor, angles, weakspots, flanking and just click away. I've seen hummels and m41s take out tier 7s and 8s with >1k hits. Very happy when that happens to the good players on the other team because no amount of skill can overwrite orbital laser barrage.

The difference between a good arty player and a bad one is miniscule. If RNG is good to you, you carried. If RNG is bad to you, ain't jack diddly squat you can do about it. One game I 1 shotted the tier 10 Foch, nailed an E-100 for 1.3k damage and 1 shotted an E-50 (or e-50m, can't remember). Very entertaining as I got to finish my sandwich and watch my team's bads swarm the weakened flank without knowing how to drive tier 10 tanks.

Arty's the reason why world of tanks will have a hard time becoming an "e-sport" game. It's a gameplay mechanic that rewards luck instead of skill.


You're my hero. :thumbsup:
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
PowerYoga, we do disagree.

You say there's little difference between playing an arty well or poorly, I say there's a big difference.

You're pointing out only the differences between arty and non-arty in a one-sided argument that's just trivial. What would you say if I cited all kinds of obvious things like that about how arty are generally the slowest tanks around, slow to turn, long reloads, poor armor and so on? You could complain how those factors are less important for arty than other tanks - but that's the sort of one-sided argument you are making.

I could describe playing arty well requiring skill that no other tank needs - you're not describing playing it well with your simplification.

It's just part of the game that adds some challenge. It might not be something you enjoy - but someone could just as easily argue there shouldn't be any tanks but lights running around shooting each other because slower tanks that do more damage ruin the game for them. They're always having to watch out for some TD hiding.

What's this about 25 seconds to move to aovid getting countered? You often have about 2 or 3 seconds which can't come close to moving enough and even then you're vulnerable if they shoot close to where you were.

Arty requires the most skill to play well, at least counter battery. I'll agree that the slowest tanks - the maus and some td's - are especially vulnerable to arty. But that's rock paper scissors for you, the rock hates paper and the paper hates scissors. One more frustration with arty, of many - forget the 50% nerf to the points you make or the outrageous costs to play one - is that you ar emore dependant on your team than most other tanks. When they leave a path open to spot you, when they don't prevent you being scouted, when they don't keep targets lit for you or they chase enemies behind cover or other things, they cost you the game and get you killed.

Edit: by the way, the tier 10 heavy tanks you're worried about are getting a spall liner with 50% damage reduction in 8.6, if over 70 tons.
 
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PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Enlighten me then: How does slow turn speeds, long reloads, poor armor matter for arty?

Yes, you relocate slower. Yes, you may have lower DPM. Yes, you might never bounce a shell. Yes, you might turn like an IS-4. :awe:

But please explain to me why any of this matters when your engagement distance is generally over 600m away. If you're making the assertion that "these stats matter", you should at least give some reason. "You get counter-artied easier" should not be the only reason why these stats matter.

For me: The only thing those soft attributes really protect you from is a zealous scout, and they are needed so you can't kill those scouts reliably when they're trying to circle you. Otherwise arty would be able to hit zig-zagging flies as easily as any other tank. Let's be honest here: If a batchat gets through, you're fucked regardless of how fast or how much armor you have.

Case in point: Batchat arty was nerfed precisely because it was able to shotgun with the auto loader: You can run in, fire 3-4 shots, and pretty much destroy any tank while they're reloading.

Fun fact: I've also side scraped in my OBJ 212 before, so lets not say that it's impossible to do so. I managed to eat 2 shots, which gave me enough time to reload and blow away the E100 that was trying to kill me.

Arty does require some unique skills, but only because of how different it is from other tanks. I'll also note that I feel counter battery is not so much skill as it is guesswork unless you have teammates telling you where they are receiving fire from. I'll also argue it's easier to counter battery tank destroyers because they fire more frequently and some are slower than arty.

What's this about 25 seconds to move to aovid getting countered? You often have about 2 or 3 seconds which can't come close to moving enough and even then you're vulnerable if they shoot close to where you were
Let me clarify. After firing, you have about 2 seconds to relocate before counter battery reaches you. After which it's a guess as to where your arty is, so you have 23 more seconds to find a completely different spot if you so wish. Let's face it: if you miss the counter battery, it's very difficult to find the guy's new spot if he has half a brain.

I also won't disagree that arty is the most team dependent piece on the field. I also hate how powerless arty is in the case of flanks being left open and a scout gets through. But that's the way it should be. Open flanks kill every single tank, arties just die faster. Flanking and pincering armies is a very textbook military tactic for a reason.

Over all, I still don't believe arty takes much of any sort of skill to play. You can be good at it, but it's very easy to get "good" at arty in comparison to driving a batchat, a vk2801 or a T110E5 when half of your shot is RNG. But we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

edit: spall liner is not 50% reduction. There's some math from the test server that puts it at around 5-10% more effective than the current one. So for a 1k damage splash, you'll receive 700 damage instead of 800. Hardly something to write home about when 2-3 shots kill you. This is on an E-100, so anything with less armor will see diminished results.
 
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LurkerPrime

Senior member
Aug 11, 2010
962
0
71
sorry Craig, I have to agree with PowerYoga. It takes very little to learn how to play arty compared to other tanks/TDs in this game. My 80 year old grandma could insta-gib Garbad with a tier 8 arty.

You see, that is why good players hate arty. Even a low skilled player can do decent in arty, and with the help of RNG, he can instagib any enemy tank on the field, letting a really shitty player essentially turn the tide of the match.
 

LurkerPrime

Senior member
Aug 11, 2010
962
0
71
I don't like how it has two different sites one for the EU and one for the USA... Both in English.
Well, it depends on where you live and what servers you are playing on. The reason they have different websites is they run different weekend specials. Also I'm sure the EU website probably has different language options (not sure, but I would hope so since that server serves a wide range of europe with quite a few different languages).
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Enlighten me then: How does slow turn speeds, long reloads, poor armor matter for arty?

Yes, you relocate slower. Yes, you may have lower DPM. Yes, you might never bounce a shell. Yes, you might turn like an IS-4. :awe:

But please explain to me why any of this matters when your engagement distance is generally over 600m away. If you're making the assertion that "these stats matter", you should at least give some reason. "You get counter-artied easier" should not be the only reason why these stats matter.
I think you missed the point I was making with those stats. I was mentioning them to say they're the arty equivalent of the points you were making about non-arty tanks.

Again, there's a rock paper scissors issue between tanks. Match after match, arty says 'kill the scouts', and mediums say 'kill the heavies', and scouts say 'kill the mediums', and heavies say 'arty sucks'. Every tank has its strengths and weaknesses. If you just cherry pick the issues to raise you can make any tank look weak.

Looking at the big arties - the t92's, 261's, typ e's - they can't dogfight, they can't run, they can't fire quickly, they're easily killed in close combat. That's their downside, against their strengths of remote fire and high damage. The large majority of non-arty tanks have plenty of options to not get killed by arty that much - not entirely, obviously, or arty would be useless - between cover and movement. A tank even moving a few feet while idle can make an arty shot miss entirely while it flies no matter how nicely aimed.

And when arty does miss, which is all too easy, it's a very long reload to try again.

Peekaboo in your heavy and miss a shot, sorry wait a few seconds and try again.

There's another benefit to non-arty - in close combat there aren't three seconds for the enemy to move away from your shot.

For me: The only thing those soft attributes really protect you from is a zealous scout, and they are needed so you can't kill those scouts reliably when they're trying to circle you. Otherwise arty would be able to hit zig-zagging flies as easily as any other tank. Let's be honest here: If a batchat gets through, you're fucked regardless of how fast or how much armor you have.

Case in point: Batchat arty was nerfed precisely because it was able to shotgun with the auto loader: You can run in, fire 3-4 shots, and pretty much destroy any tank while they're reloading.
I agree there, batchat arty has more advantages than the others.

Fun fact: I've also side scraped in my OBJ 212 before, so lets not say that it's impossible to do so. I managed to eat 2 shots, which gave me enough time to reload and blow away the E100 that was trying to kill me.
And that's an exception. How many shots by an E100 at an arty don't one shot the arty? And the E100 has a big advantage in getting the first shot in close combat.

Arty does require some unique skills, but only because of how different it is from other tanks. I'll also note that I feel counter battery is not so much skill as it is guesswork unless you have teammates telling you where they are receiving fire from. I'll also argue it's easier to counter battery tank destroyers because they fire more frequently and some are slower than arty.
With no offense it sounds like you don't appreciate playing well at counter battery because you're not that familiar with how demanding it can be - so you think it's luck.

Of course there is some guesswork, but also a lot of skill to improve the odds. No other tank makes you stare at the empty map for 4 minutes barely blinking with the same intensity trying to catch a few pixels from somewhere for a fraction of a second. Not many players seem able to do that well.

There's some skill of course for tanks in their combat, the fake movements to get the enemy to miss, the fast aim after a move, but arty trying to hit a moving target, trying to counter while correctly guessing the direction and distance an enemy arty you can't see is most likely to have moved after shooting, even the map strategy other tanks don't face of analyzing which targets on the map will help the team the most take their own skills.

Do you take out that especially tough tank, or do you help that other player get saved when he's outnumbered, or do you take the easy target or wait for a key location target?

Your pick can change the battle. Normal tanks don't have do that - they only pick among a few enemies where they are, hopefully focus fire.

If you just shoot at the first red dot, that's not playing your arty well.

A different topic would be which tank does better with a 'bad player', but that's not the topic I'm discussing.

Let me clarify. After firing, you have about 2 seconds to relocate before counter battery reaches you. After which it's a guess as to where your arty is, so you have 23 more seconds to find a completely different spot if you so wish. Let's face it: if you miss the counter battery, it's very difficult to find the guy's new spot if he has half a brain.
In thousands of battles, I will say I have all but never seen arty move much to avoid counter. Largely that's because they're so slow it's about two minutes between shots.

In over 99% of the situation, arty either doesn't move - it happens a lot - or moves just enough to avoid a counter where it was or a little bit further. Arty aim times are very long and arties don't want to lose even more shot time by a long move and then a long aim costing them shots.

I also won't disagree that arty is the most team dependent piece on the field. I also hate how powerless arty is in the case of flanks being left open and a scout gets through. But that's the way it should be. Open flanks kill every single tank, arties just die faster. Flanking and pincering armies is a very textbook military tactic for a reason.
Ya, I'm not saying it should change, just pointing out on the rock paper scissors that it's a disadvantage for arty you didn't mention, only listing the bad points for other tanks.

Over all, I still don't believe arty takes much of any sort of skill to play. You can be good at it, but it's very easy to get "good" at arty in comparison to driving a batchat, a vk2801 or a T110E5 when half of your shot is RNG. But we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
Well I agree those tanks have skills to learn also - I have vk2801 and t110e5 - but I'll still say arty takes more skill to play 'well'.

edit: spall liner is not 50% reduction. There's some math from the test server that puts it at around 5-10% more effective than the current one. So for a 1k damage splash, you'll receive 700 damage instead of 800. Hardly something to write home about when 2-3 shots kill you. This is on an E-100, so anything with less armor will see diminished results.
Well, that's good news; here's what the wargaming note says:

Reworked additional absorption bonuses for Spall Liners: Small Spall Liner 20 % (was 15%).
Medium Spall Liner 25% (was 15%).
Large Spall Liner 30% (was 15%).
For heavy tanks of more than 70 tons added super-heavy spall liner with additional absorption coefficient of 50%
It's funny, in a lot of battles in my non-arty when I ask arty to counter, none know how.

And they're messing with that, too in 8.6. Not only are all non-arty tracers being turned off - which isn't that big a deal, it's rare to shoot a non-arty from a tracer - but they're reducing the range arty tracers can be seen so it sounds like you won't be able to counter at all in some cases. Which seems odd, because I thought they wanted arty counterng to take arty out of the game because of player complaints. If arty are busy countering, they're not shooting tanks much.

Of course, all top tier tanks except arty are getting about a 10% boost to the points earned...

One other thing, most tankers like the 'fun factor' of tanks with a lot more action, not getting a small number of shots off with a lot of waiting while there are no shots playing arty.

That's not a 'skill' issue, but it does prevent a lot of players from being able to stand playing it.

I think it's a lot better balanced than you do. Your heavy can go attack the tank in cover around the corner, while arty can do nothing about it.
 
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Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
I can say this, I have hit a skill ceiling in the game. I hit it a while ago, I can continue to improve but it is very small steps compared to the giant leaps that came with the basics. I know how to angle, how to side scrape, how to make arty miss me more often than not, how to lead targets, how to play arty, etc.

Regarding arty, that skill ceiling was hit A LONG TIME AGO. I learned all I needed to learn the first WEEK of playing my 212 in clan wars. I was in a SINGLE training session for 15 minutes that corrected where I should aim when hitting a standing vehicle (everything else I learned correctly while grinding the line). After the correction was made (and it was a very logical correction) I was golden. I knew where to expect targets to light up (comes with playing games), I knew how to lead targets, I knew how to relocate to get different angles on rock hugging tanks, I knew all of that without any additional training.

Am I the end all be all arty player? No. Did I play clan wars arty day in and day out for months at a time? Yes. Could I make that first hit on a batchat going to where I *knew* he was going on Mines *every day*? Yes. Could I hit that AMX 50B storming across El Halluf to get to a key spot 40 seconds into the map? Yes. It was so freaking easy to do. If RNG allowed my shot to hit center, I *hit* the target. If RNG did not, I splashed or missed him. That was it.

Fun fact. The first time I ever played arty for a clan was a scrimmage against our mother clan. We were supposed to lose this match. This was my *trial* game to see if I knew how to play arty. Before any additional training.



(Lurker, recognize any of those names?)
 
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PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
that's the absorption coefficient, which is for the armor (150% applied to absorption). That translates to about 10%-20% reduction in damage overall. I've posted the math a few pages back already, the spall liners are still worthless against the big arty and is not the solution to arty-parties at tier 8-10 now.

Anyway Craig I think you're missing the point here. The point is any moron in an arty can kill the best players with no effort. He doesn't need to aim for weak spots, worry about his flank, doesn't need to know where to shoot the tank. He just needs to click when the circle's small. Doesn't matter if that thing he's clicking on is a small, medium, big or triangle tank.

Just click.

I won't argue there are very good arty players out there that will carry, but that really doesn't make too much of a difference like it does in a heavy or a medium. Clicking doesn't require knowledge of armor or angles or how the game works.

I'm not arguing arty is weak against scouts or mediums or whatnot. They are. But the scouts and mediums still has to make it through your team to get to you, and in that time you can click away to your merriment.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
that's the absorption coefficient, which is for the armor (150% applied to absorption). That translates to about 10%-20% reduction in damage overall. I've posted the math a few pages back already, the spall liners are still worthless against the big arty and is not the solution to arty-parties at tier 8-10 now.

Anyway Craig I think you're missing the point here. The point is any moron in an arty can kill the best players with no effort. He doesn't need to aim for weak spots, worry about his flank, doesn't need to know where to shoot the tank. He just needs to click when the circle's small. Doesn't matter if that thing he's clicking on is a small, medium, big or triangle tank.

Just click.

I won't argue there are very good arty players out there that will carry, but that really doesn't make too much of a difference like it does in a heavy or a medium. Clicking doesn't require knowledge of armor or angles or how the game works.

I'm not arguing arty is weak against scouts or mediums or whatnot. They are. But the scouts and mediums still has to make it through your team to get to you, and in that time you can click away to your merriment.
Well, I think the 'just click' thing is oversimplifed - it's like saying any tank 'just clicks' to shoot another tank.

Sure, in cases when the enemy is lit, just sits there, doesn't take cover, there can be some easy shots - but there are some easy shots for any tank.

Like I said, I'm not talking about which tank is better for a 'bad' player. Perhaps a 'bad' player will do better in an arty than a regular tank, but that's another issue.

There's a lot of rage against arty - some players really don't like the mechanic. I think that's also a different issue than the amount of skill to play arty well.

I can understand preferring to play against more similar tanks, not be nuked.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
So do you guys think any of the new heavy spall liners are worth getting by spending 500k now to get the 750k liner later?

I've only found two tanks over 70 tons that I have (one is the Typ E arty, the other the JagdTiger; tanks like the t110e5 and t110e4 aren't).

Hate to give a up a slot for one if it's not worth it and it's not seeming to be.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
With no offense it sounds like you don't appreciate playing well at counter battery because you're not that familiar with how demanding it can be - so you think it's luck.
Please, by all means, waste your 30+ second reload on trying to counter arty. I prefer to actually dish out damage then HOPE the enemy arty has not relocated. Since counter battery was introduced, I can count on one hand the number of times I have been countered. Only once was it in clan wars, and that was a T92 shooting gold.

I can and do counter when I have *nothing* else to do.


On a different note, regarding the removal of non arty tracers. If this is for tank view as well, I am truly against it. The visual mechanics are crap enough that I have had to resort to shooting at tracers from invisi-tanks as they can see me. They remove those and it will get even more frustrating. Removing them from arty view I am just fine with.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,069
499
126
I play the S-51. That thing can one shot T9s and seriously hurt T10s with the right RNG. I tend to agree with Poweryoga. Outside of knowing where to shoot on the map and waiting for the reticle to shrink. There isnt much skill in arty. The RNG does it for you. Some times I splash for a few hundred. Other times it hits for 2K. I didnt do anything except shoot the gun with the reticle shrunk. No aiming for weakspots ect.

In one game I had 6 kills. Most of them 1 shot. I couldnt believe it. E75's, IS8s, 704s, and even a T95 lmao. What skill was that except pointing and clicking and the RNG deciding for whatever reason I got the high end of the damage range and 1 shot these poor T9s?
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
So do you guys think any of the new heavy spall liners are worth getting by spending 500k now to get the 750k liner later?

I've only found two tanks over 70 tons that I have (one is the Typ E arty, the other the JagdTiger; tanks like the t110e5 and t110e4 aren't).

Hate to give a up a slot for one if it's not worth it and it's not seeming to be.
The math is out there. Even for the ultra heavy tanks, the spall liner only really helps for the medium caliber arty shots. They absorb a paltry amount from the big boy guns.

I am reminded of my favorite webcomic (Order of the Stick) where a user is complaining about the non-use of the D12 in Dungeons and Dragons:

Elan: But the d12 does have one refuge; the barbarian! Whether for hit points or for greataxe damage, the d12 and the barbarian are best buddies.
Thog: thog power attack for 1d12+567 damage! grrr!
d12: Yeah! Kick his ass!
Random Person: I sure hope he rolls a one for damage.
The last line is what I look at as spall liner. Man I hope I absorb those 100 HPs. As I still take a 1k hit.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Here's what the notes say:

Tracers have been temporary turned off:
Removed all tracers from unspotted enemy vehicles, except of SPG’s tracers
The area in SPGs aiming mode, where tracer of non-spotted SPGs is being shown, has been reduced.
So, temporary for normal tanks.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
It might be worth it for the spall liner for my Typ E - after rammer and vent, there's not really a big need for the third slot, and if it prevents getting 1 shotted in a counter...
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
I play the S-51. That thing can one shot T9s and seriously hurt T10s with the right RNG. I tend to agree with Poweryoga. Outside of knowing where to shoot on the map and waiting for the reticle to shrink. There isnt much skill in arty. The RNG does it for you. Some times I splash for a few hundred. Other times it hits for 2K. I didnt do anything except shoot the gun with the reticle shrunk. No aiming for weakspots ect.

In one game I had 6 kills. Most of them 1 shot. I couldnt believe it. E75's, IS8s, 704s, and even a T95 lmao. What skill was that except pointing and clicking and the RNG deciding for whatever reason I got the high end of the damage range and 1 shot these poor T9s?


I play my GwPanther when I'm holding my baby. :\ It's really not that involved or hard to do well.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Well, I think the 'just click' thing is oversimplifed - it's like saying any tank 'just clicks' to shoot another tank.
Ah, but if you do that in another tank it'll just bounce if you don't aim. See where I'm going with this? :)

Anyway I wouldn't get the spall liner. The extra weight is not worth the piddily protection. Like others have said, it only protects against medium caliber rounds, and I'd hate for my arty to get even slower than it currently is by adding a whole extra ton onto it. The best protection for arty is to not get hit to begin with.

I run rammer, GLD and vents on mine (obj 212 is not open topped). Though I'd consider camo net to be considerably more beneficial after the patch since the way it works got an overhaul and now it benefits big tanks just as much as little tanks.

Edit: tracers are turned off to fix some exploits (I'm guessing the ray tracing mod from a while back). It'll come back once they figure out how to make it more exploit proof.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
Is arty easier than tanking? Yes. There's less to pay attention to and you're less likely to get immediately snuffed. If you have a decent team in front of you, you can be quite lazy.

Is the difference between a bad arty player and a good arty player small? No, not at all.

I have over 2,000 games in artillery at tier 6 or greater. Each artillery piece has a different shell speed and arc. That means not only is the lead time different for each piece, but the place in the reticle where the target has to be to hit changes. High level arty play is very cerebral because you need to maximize each and every opportunity to sway the game. In competitive or CW play, artillery coordination with the other tanks is instrumental in winning.

Personally, I find the S-51 the most frustrating arty piece in the game. It has terrible traverse, terrible dispersion on track movement, terrible aim time, terrible reload, terrible accuracy, slow shells and a high arc. The ONLY thing it has going for it is high alpha. If you get a static map with lots of slow heavy targets, the thing can do work on obvious targets. But basically, the targets pick themselves for you (the dumb slow ones) and you cannot engage the ones that are really important.

On the other hand, the GWP is excellent at all the things the S-51 is poor at, and vice-versa. The GWP may not be able to do massive damage in a single shot, but the GWP can shoot the most important target instead of the dumbest ones. That makes the GWP infinitely more dangerous.
 

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