Lexus inching closer to producing a superluxury vehicle

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: ajpa123

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: ajpa123

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: SuperTool


1. $70K != $100K.
2. Dick Grasso isn't buying.

That's the point. If Lexus can kick but at $70,000, imagine an all new model at $100,000 instead of the same car with a bigger engine like the "other guys" :roll:

OK, I am trying to imagine. What can they put in it that they don't already have in a $70K LS430, that someone would want to pay $30K for? That's the problem for Lexus. Lexus driver isn't exactly interested in having a 6L V12, because they just want adequately fast cushy ride luxury boat, not a sports saloon. So I don't think they'll find any suckers willing to plunk down extra $30K for an incrimental luxury increase over the already super luxurious LS430. MB buyers are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for incremental performance increases, but I don't think Lexus customers are. I like the LS430 for what it is, superluxurious A-B transportation. I just don't think there are customers for $100K Lexus to cover the development costs. I just think LS430 has everything a lexus driver wants, and it will be hard for them to convince owners to plunk down $30K more for additional luxury.
Maybe the new $100K model is just a fully loaded LS430 with $30K in cash in the trunk?

Wait till you get older and settle down.
There's that 'keeping up with the Jones's' thing.
or the 'buy it cuz it's cool' thing
or 'buy it cuz it's expensive' thing

There's a market for this kinda car. One that we don't quite get because we're not the target audience.. simple. It's not necessarily what's in it. It's how much it is so I can brag to my freind that i bought one. Kinda like mentioning that you just had one of those designer spring waters or $10 expressos that morning.

Yes, but if it's down to bragging rights $100K Benz > $100K Lexus.

I'm in total agreement with you!

Reason: Lexus is a company in its infancy...
Give it a few years and let's see what happens.

Lexus launched roughly 15 years ago and it has already surpassed BMW and Mercedes and has succeeded in building a better Mercedes than Mercedes.

Dude, he mean't when it comes to the name, not the car itself. :roll:

Considering that Lexus is already mentioned right alongside BMW and Mercedes as one of the top luxury marques in the America, what are we waiting on?

We people think luxury cars in America, they don't say BMW, Mercedes and Cadillac....they say, BMW, Mercedes and Lexus.

You still don't get it. For many people, a Mercedes still seems better, because of the name, more prestige; even if the Lexus is better, they either might not now, or care. They want the Mercedes.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: ajpa123

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: ajpa123

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: SuperTool


1. $70K != $100K.
2. Dick Grasso isn't buying.

That's the point. If Lexus can kick but at $70,000, imagine an all new model at $100,000 instead of the same car with a bigger engine like the "other guys" :roll:

OK, I am trying to imagine. What can they put in it that they don't already have in a $70K LS430, that someone would want to pay $30K for? That's the problem for Lexus. Lexus driver isn't exactly interested in having a 6L V12, because they just want adequately fast cushy ride luxury boat, not a sports saloon. So I don't think they'll find any suckers willing to plunk down extra $30K for an incrimental luxury increase over the already super luxurious LS430. MB buyers are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for incremental performance increases, but I don't think Lexus customers are. I like the LS430 for what it is, superluxurious A-B transportation. I just don't think there are customers for $100K Lexus to cover the development costs. I just think LS430 has everything a lexus driver wants, and it will be hard for them to convince owners to plunk down $30K more for additional luxury.
Maybe the new $100K model is just a fully loaded LS430 with $30K in cash in the trunk?

Wait till you get older and settle down.
There's that 'keeping up with the Jones's' thing.
or the 'buy it cuz it's cool' thing
or 'buy it cuz it's expensive' thing

There's a market for this kinda car. One that we don't quite get because we're not the target audience.. simple. It's not necessarily what's in it. It's how much it is so I can brag to my freind that i bought one. Kinda like mentioning that you just had one of those designer spring waters or $10 expressos that morning.

Yes, but if it's down to bragging rights $100K Benz > $100K Lexus.

I'm in total agreement with you!

Reason: Lexus is a company in its infancy...
Give it a few years and let's see what happens.

Lexus launched roughly 15 years ago and it has already surpassed BMW and Mercedes and has succeeded in building a better Mercedes than Mercedes.

Sorry, not true.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

I agree about the NSX, but I like the 350z/g35. Don't like the mr2 much, or celica, but then again the celica isn't in their range. Id rather get an RSX over the Celica though.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

 

[Supa]

$100,000 Lexus sounds nice!

Personally I would like them to put aluminum frame on LS and make it also hybrid, something like LS 500h, a la RX 400h.

LS 430 already can go 0-60 in 5.9 seconds with fuel Econ of 18/25, imaging what those 2 new combinations of lighter weight and more power can do!


---

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

The Celica is one of the best handling small cars around, but you wouldn't care about that...the Celica name has been around for YEARS.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

The E36 M3 was offered in a 4-door sedan variant, also available with an automatic tranny. How do I know? I sat in one. You know what else I learnt about the E36? It has a crappy and plasticky interior.

The man knows his cars.

My E36 has a crappy plasticky interior with horrible ergonomics and the worst stereo imaginable...and it isn't even a Bose!

The new BMWs don't seem much better. The new X3, 5, 7 have this cold, stark, Bauhaus kind of interior. When I sat in them, it felt like I was in a Communist country for some reason.

I kinda like the stark interior in the new 7...it has a nice executive office-type look...which fits the car. I also liked the interior in the E39 5-series as well.

Back to discussion regarding MB vs Lexus.

You guys do know that MB loved Lexus right? Which is why they stole the Lexus engineers responsible for the original LS400 and got them to work on the new S-class (the gen we have now). They tried to emulate Lexus by offering high quality at a lower price point.

They failed. Their measures on cost-cutting could not equal the efficiency that Toyota had to produce high quality products. And the reason for the current downfall of MB is almost directly due to the unbelievable growth of Lexus. Benz simply could not offer the quality of Lexus at a Lexus price, or even at 6-10k more. As for prestige, well, I agree MB has more brand cachet right now, but that prestige is watering down, and Lexus's cachet is increasing at the same or higher pace.

For a company that was lambasted at copying MB designs (which I agree with btw), they sure were good enough to get their benchmark to benchmark them.

Toyota changed the automotive landscape in the past 20 years with their manufacturing prowess and rapid development and turnaround. The only company coming close to them in that sense is Hyundai. They are doing it at a much faster pace.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

The Celica is one of the best handling small cars around, but you wouldn't care about that...the Celica name has been around for YEARS.

Sorry, not for the last generation. Also, handling != soul.

 

[Doggiedog]

There was an awesome Celica in the early 90s that was based on a rally car version of the car. I believe it was the Celica GT4. That was one nice car.

The Mitsubishi Galant VR4 was also a sweet car.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

The Celica is one of the best handling small cars around, but you wouldn't care about that...the Celica name has been around for YEARS.

Sorry, not for the last generation. Also, handling != soul.

Well then, I guess a Miata doesn't have soul by your definition...nor did the last generation SLK or the first Z3. Nor did any of the many British roadsters (MG, Triumphs) that flooded the streets many moons ago. I guess the Mini Cooper/Cooper S doesn't have soul either??

Give it up.

 

[LongCoolMother]

so was the skyline gtr.

what is soul? how does a car have soul? does it have a certain look, sound, color, material?

what exactly are japanese cars lacking? i find they look good, have great quality, and perform well. i dont see much to dislike about them.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

The Celica is one of the best handling small cars around, but you wouldn't care about that...the Celica name has been around for YEARS.

Sorry, not for the last generation. Also, handling != soul.

Well then, I guess a Miata doesn't have soul by your definition...nor did the last generation SLK or the first Z3. Nor did any of the many British roadsters (MG, Triumphs) that flooded the streets many moons ago. I guess the Mini Cooper/Cooper S doesn't have soul either??

Give it up.

Sorry dude. You don't get the point. Soul = driving pleasure of its own. All the other cars you mentioned above provides that pleasure. Celica sure as hell don't. Of course you'd simply reply by "Give it up" because its obvious that you think posting 853 car threads a day with a link gives you credibility over this issue. Too bad you're wrong.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

The Celica is one of the best handling small cars around, but you wouldn't care about that...the Celica name has been around for YEARS.

Sorry, not for the last generation. Also, handling != soul.

Well then, I guess a Miata doesn't have soul by your definition...nor did the last generation SLK or the first Z3. Nor did any of the many British roadsters (MG, Triumphs) that flooded the streets many moons ago. I guess the Mini Cooper/Cooper S doesn't have soul either??

Give it up.

Sorry dude. You don't get the point. Soul = driving pleasure of its own. All the other cars you mentioned above provides that pleasure. Celica sure as hell don't. Of course you'd simply reply by "Give it up" because its obvious that you think posting 853 car threads a day with a link gives you credibility over this issue. Too bad you're wrong.

How the hell is the Celica any different? B/C it's FWD?? Or is it b/c it's Japanese?? Give me a friggin' break. It's one of the best handling small cars out there...PERIOD and it's decently quick and had plenty of TRD options available to make it an even better hot hatch.

You don't think that a Celica has driving pleasure? Based on what? Don't hate just to hate.

Ohhh, and who came in first place?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=1425&page_number=1&preview

The TRD Celica GT-S goes as fast as it looks. Chassis and engine combine to produce a highly involving driving experience. And though it takes more work to keep up a head of steam, once the road turns twisty, all is quickly forgiven.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

About this soul issue...

YOU PUT THE SOUL IN THE CAR.

A car does not come with a soul, you create one with your relationship with your car.

If you believe a car comes with a soul, then your falling into trap of marketing.

If you can't find a soul in your car, then your not an enthusaist.

It's as simple as that.

NFS4: I figured you'd link that. I don't think the stock GT-S is as good as its competitors handling wise. I think a Neon SRT-4 would out corner it.

 

[ajpa123]

One thing that differentiates Lexus from BMW and Mercedes is that Lexus is all medium to Large size vehicles. BMW and Mercedes have cheapo small hatch-back size cars (318i/C230) It's wierd to see the same Mercedes badge on a $20,000 car that's on a $180,000 isn't it. It's not a big deal, but an issue.
I'm sure Lexus is on its way to produce a baby car and sell it.. but it doesn't quite seem right does it?

 

[sillymofo]

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

The Celica is one of the best handling small cars around, but you wouldn't care about that...the Celica name has been around for YEARS.

Sorry, not for the last generation. Also, handling != soul.

Well then, I guess a Miata doesn't have soul by your definition...nor did the last generation SLK or the first Z3. Nor did any of the many British roadsters (MG, Triumphs) that flooded the streets many moons ago. I guess the Mini Cooper/Cooper S doesn't have soul either??

Give it up.

Sorry dude. You don't get the point. Soul = driving pleasure of its own. All the other cars you mentioned above provides that pleasure. Celica sure as hell don't. Of course you'd simply reply by "Give it up" because its obvious that you think posting 853 car threads a day with a link gives you credibility over this issue. Too bad you're wrong.

You've just lost the argument.

EDIT: Ever heard of All-trac?

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

The Celica is one of the best handling small cars around, but you wouldn't care about that...the Celica name has been around for YEARS.

Sorry, not for the last generation. Also, handling != soul.

Well then, I guess a Miata doesn't have soul by your definition...nor did the last generation SLK or the first Z3. Nor did any of the many British roadsters (MG, Triumphs) that flooded the streets many moons ago. I guess the Mini Cooper/Cooper S doesn't have soul either??

Give it up.

Sorry dude. You don't get the point. Soul = driving pleasure of its own. All the other cars you mentioned above provides that pleasure. Celica sure as hell don't. Of course you'd simply reply by "Give it up" because its obvious that you think posting 853 car threads a day with a link gives you credibility over this issue. Too bad you're wrong.

How the hell is the Celica any different? B/C it's FWD?? Or is it b/c it's Japanese?? Give me a friggin' break. It's one of the best handling small cars out there...PERIOD and it's decently quick and had plenty of TRD options available to make it an even better hot hatch.

You don't think that a Celica has driving pleasure? Based on what? Don't hate just to hate.

Ohhh, and who came in first place?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=1425&page_number=1&preview

The TRD Celica GT-S goes as fast as it looks. Chassis and engine combine to produce a highly involving driving experience. And though it takes more work to keep up a head of steam, once the road turns twisty, all is quickly forgiven.

Wow, well, you already lost all your credibility but I gotta ask: Are you blind by any chance? The cars that they compare it to: American Ricemobile, American Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, and guess what? Another Japanese Ricemobile.

The author of the article obviously felt she had to choose a winner among ricemobiles, and chose Celica. Throwing in a few good words is always good, right? Also, I already said so in the first page but a magazine article = :thumbsdown:

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
About this soul issue...

YOU PUT THE SOUL IN THE CAR.

A car does not come with a soul, you create one with your relationship with your car.

If you believe a car comes with a soul, then your falling into trap of marketing.

If you can't find a soul in your car, then your not an enthusaist.

It's as simple as that.

ya right... rofl

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Wow, well, you already lost all your credibility but I gotta ask: Are you blind by any chance? The cars that they compare it to: American Ricemobile, American Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, and guess what? Another Japanese Ricemobile.

The author of the article obviously felt she had to choose a winner among ricemobiles, and chose Celica. Throwing in a few good words is always good, right? Also, I already said so in the first page but a magazine article = :thumbsdown:

The fact that you called them all ricemobiles doesn't speak well for you either, but whatever. What is YOUR definition of a soulful car? A Mercedes? A BMW?

Anything else is crap?

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Considering that Lexus is already mentioned right alongside BMW and Mercedes as one of the top luxury marques in the America, what are we waiting on?

We people think luxury cars in America, they don't say BMW, Mercedes and Cadillac....they say, BMW, Mercedes and Lexus.

I think this is a big point, I work for a multi national firm with offices all over the globe, actually I have worked with a few of them now, and many of the directors I have worked with are all car buffs, many of them are either from London, Australia, Italy or Spain and all of them hold Lexus and any other japanese car in rather low regard. They all feel they are very reliable, but whenever you mention Lexus the instant response is "they are just a toy and not to be considered"...instead they gravitate towards BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Porsche.....

I also remember an article which stated Lexus really has only caught on in the US and European buyers are still not fond of high price japanese cars...not sure if that info is still accurate though.

Personally, no matter how nice I would never consider a lexus.

 

[Doggiedog]

What cars do you suggest the Celica compete against XietyCOM?

I'm pretty sure the Celica will either beat them or the cars are not comparable because they would be in completely different price ranges.

BTW, I think a writer for a major car magazine has ALOT more credibility than some anonymous poster on a BB.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Wow, well, you already lost all your credibility but I gotta ask: Are you blind by any chance? The cars that they compare it to: American Ricemobile, American Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, and guess what? Another Japanese Ricemobile.

The author of the article obviously felt she had to choose a winner among ricemobiles, and chose Celica. Throwing in a few good words is always good, right? Also, I already said so in the first page but a magazine article = :thumbsdown:

The fact that you called them all ricemobiles doesn't speak well for you either, but whatever. What is YOUR definition of a soulful car? A Mercedes? A BMW?

Anything else is crap?

His definition is his Always break down A4

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM


Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

Wow, just wow. That's all you need to say right there. Moving on...

Move on then. Putting a Celica in that list killed your credibility. Sorry, thought I would mention that for future reference

The Celica is one of the best handling small cars around, but you wouldn't care about that...the Celica name has been around for YEARS.

Sorry, not for the last generation. Also, handling != soul.

Well then, I guess a Miata doesn't have soul by your definition...nor did the last generation SLK or the first Z3. Nor did any of the many British roadsters (MG, Triumphs) that flooded the streets many moons ago. I guess the Mini Cooper/Cooper S doesn't have soul either??

Give it up.

Sorry dude. You don't get the point. Soul = driving pleasure of its own. All the other cars you mentioned above provides that pleasure. Celica sure as hell don't. Of course you'd simply reply by "Give it up" because its obvious that you think posting 853 car threads a day with a link gives you credibility over this issue. Too bad you're wrong.

You've just lost the argument.

EDIT: Ever heard of All-trac?

lol ok, you keep kidding yourself.

What about All-trac? Are you gonna defend All-trac now? Love the All-trac, don't ya? Is that why All-trac got destroyed over and over at rallies? :thumbsdown:

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Wow, well, you already lost all your credibility but I gotta ask: Are you blind by any chance? The cars that they compare it to: American Ricemobile, American Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, and guess what? Another Japanese Ricemobile.

The author of the article obviously felt she had to choose a winner among ricemobiles, and chose Celica. Throwing in a few good words is always good, right? Also, I already said so in the first page but a magazine article = :thumbsdown:

The fact that you called them all ricemobiles doesn't speak well for you either, but whatever. What is YOUR definition of a soulful car? A Mercedes? A BMW?

Anything else is crap?

Soul = driving pleasure of its own.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Wow, well, you already lost all your credibility but I gotta ask: Are you blind by any chance? The cars that they compare it to: American Ricemobile, American Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, Japanese Ricemobile, and guess what? Another Japanese Ricemobile.

The author of the article obviously felt she had to choose a winner among ricemobiles, and chose Celica. Throwing in a few good words is always good, right? Also, I already said so in the first page but a magazine article = :thumbsdown:

The fact that you called them all ricemobiles doesn't speak well for you either, but whatever. What is YOUR definition of a soulful car? A Mercedes? A BMW?

Anything else is crap?

Soul = driving pleasure of its own.

So the car drives itself?:roll: