Lexus inching closer to producing a superluxury vehicle

[bozack]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Yeah, but Lexus isn't that stupid. They haven't gotten in the position they have right now by making stupid decisions like that. In fact, just about every decision they've made has turned into gold.

You are under the presumption that Lexus is omnipotent and flawless...almost unhuman...

remember, everyone and every company makes mistakes, while they have had good business sense so far, there is always a good chance that they will falter at some point in time. The best always fall, sometimes not that far but their greatness is always called into question....

Like I said I have seen every major company make some marketing/product mistake at some point in time. Lexus/Toyota is about due for theirs.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: NFS4

Yeah, but Lexus isn't that stupid. They haven't gotten in the position they have right now by making stupid decisions like that. In fact, just about every decision they've made has turned into gold.

You are under the presumption that Lexus is omnipotent and flawless...almost unhuman...

remember, everyone and every company makes mistakes, while they have had good business sense so far, there is always a good chance that they will falter at some point in time. The best always fall, sometimes not that far but their greatness is always called into question....

Like I said I have seen every major company make some marketing/product mistake at some point in time. Lexus/Toyota is about due for theirs.

I'm not saying that they're flawless, but Toyota/Lexus is such a conservative company that they don't go making brash decisions without careful research and development. They aim for the middle of the road and not the extremes. That's why they do so well. And if you want them to screw up, you're gonna have to wait a little longer

Toyota reports surge in profits for first fiscal quarter

TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Co.p. reported Tuesday a nearly 29 percent rise in profit for the latest quarter on strong sales in North America and Europe, prompting Japan?s top automaker to lift its vehicle sales forecast for the full fiscal year.

Toyota?s net group profit for the April-June quarter totaled 286.6 billion yen ($2.6 billion), up from 222.5 billion yen the same period a year ago. Sales jumped 10 percent to 4.51 trillion yen ($41 billion) from 4.09 trillion yen.

?Our ongoing efforts to introduce products that meet the needs of our customers as well as the strengthening of our production and sales organization led to increased profits in all regions,? Toyota executive vice president Ryuji Araki said.

 

[imported_situman]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: XietyCOM
ROFL.

$100,000 for a Lexus?

Won't sell. Sorry Toyota/Lexus fanboys.

Thank you, yes. This would most likely end up like the Phaeton.

Phaeton and VW has absolutely no correlation to Lexus and a $100,000 car.

Damnit, it is an example, I even admitted that it is only barely related, but still helps prove the point, the same one as seiko and rolex. I don't care how nice some Lexus' are, I don't think Lexus when I think 100k.

u don't think that because Lexus doesnt offer a 100k vehicle for you to think about, YET!

 

[imported_situman]

Originally posted by: Nebor
This new line will appeal to the same people Lexus has always appealed to, people without class. Lexus' are the choice of rappers and other neuvo-rich.

It's not really worth arguing about though, since it has no bearing whatsoever on me. As long as Europe continues to make 'em, I'll like 'em. And Europe is in no way endangered by Toyota.

umm i believe Cadillacs and Benz S- Class has the ghetto rap covered. If you watch or seen any rap videos you clearly wouldnt have made the statement above.

 

[imported_situman]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo
Most of you bashing the Lexus and praising the S500 obviously has never been in one (the S500 that is).

Could be true. But it's more likely simply a case of being a fanboi, much like AMD vs Intel, or nVidia vs ATI. There are certain people who will never be able to appreciate a certain brand of vehicle simply for its origin, regardless of its mix of qualities. Really not that uncommon.

That's true. Like I've said repeatedly, Japanese cars just have no soul. There's no feeling there. They all seem like dressed up Civics. They get you where you want to go, reliably and comfortably, but that's about it.

Like I said, I've never had any problems at all with my Acura. My last few Volvos & a BMW had plenty of problems. My 960 had to have the alternator replaced 4 weeks after it was new. But what a car. Amazingly comfortable, solid, handled like a champ, you never wanted to get out of it. It was truly your car. The little niggling problems are part of the alure, it makes you feel important when you say, "Oh, this bimmer's in the shop, one of those crazy gizmos locked it down while I was on the freeway!" It's part of the character of the car.

I guess it's just hard to explain. And I realize I sound crazy wishing I had a less reliable car.

hmm i guess the Nissan Z has no soul, the last Supra has no soul, the last RX7 has no soul, the current RX8 has no soul....I guess American and German cars have alot of soul since they break alot more. If soul is defined by unreliability, it will be "soul" out of my garage and into the junk yard.

 

[cw42]

Originally posted by: fivespeed5
lets start with bringing the supra back, then we can talk :|

i second that.

 

[imported_situman]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: ajpa123

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: SuperTool


1. $70K != $100K.
2. Dick Grasso isn't buying.

That's the point. If Lexus can kick but at $70,000, imagine an all new model at $100,000 instead of the same car with a bigger engine like the "other guys" :roll:

OK, I am trying to imagine. What can they put in it that they don't already have in a $70K LS430, that someone would want to pay $30K for? That's the problem for Lexus. Lexus driver isn't exactly interested in having a 6L V12, because they just want adequately fast cushy ride luxury boat, not a sports saloon. So I don't think they'll find any suckers willing to plunk down extra $30K for an incrimental luxury increase over the already super luxurious LS430. MB buyers are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for incremental performance increases, but I don't think Lexus customers are. I like the LS430 for what it is, superluxurious A-B transportation. I just don't think there are customers for $100K Lexus to cover the development costs. I just think LS430 has everything a lexus driver wants, and it will be hard for them to convince owners to plunk down $30K more for additional luxury.
Maybe the new $100K model is just a fully loaded LS430 with $30K in cash in the trunk?

Wait till you get older and settle down.
There's that 'keeping up with the Jones's' thing.
or the 'buy it cuz it's cool' thing
or 'buy it cuz it's expensive' thing

There's a market for this kinda car. One that we don't quite get because we're not the target audience.. simple. It's not necessarily what's in it. It's how much it is so I can brag to my freind that i bought one. Kinda like mentioning that you just had one of those designer spring waters or $10 expressos that morning.

Yes, but if it's down to bragging rights $100K Benz > $100K Lexus.

Lexus owner-"Let's go play tennis this weekend.."

Benz owner-" Ummm can't car in the shop...can you pick me up?"

so much for bragging rights...

 

[imported_situman]

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo
Most of you bashing the Lexus and praising the S500 obviously has never been in one (the S500 that is).

Could be true. But it's more likely simply a case of being a fanboi, much like AMD vs Intel, or nVidia vs ATI. There are certain people who will never be able to appreciate a certain brand of vehicle simply for its origin, regardless of its mix of qualities. Really not that uncommon.

That's true. Like I've said repeatedly, Japanese cars just have no soul. There's no feeling there. They all seem like dressed up Civics. They get you where you want to go, reliably and comfortably, but that's about it.

Like I said, I've never had any problems at all with my Acura. My last few Volvos & a BMW had plenty of problems. My 960 had to have the alternator replaced 4 weeks after it was new. But what a car. Amazingly comfortable, solid, handled like a champ, you never wanted to get out of it. It was truly your car. The little niggling problems are part of the alure, it makes you feel important when you say, "Oh, this bimmer's in the shop, one of those crazy gizmos locked it down while I was on the freeway!" It's part of the character of the car.

I guess it's just hard to explain. And I realize I sound crazy wishing I had a less reliable car.

RX7
350Z
NSX
MR2
Supra
Celica
G35
IS300

No soul??

Sorry but 350Z, NSX, MR2, Celica, G35 and IS300 have no soul. I either drove or was the passenger in each one of them excep the NSX. But we all know NSX is an overpriced piece of crap, so nothing to discuss there.

How can you make a judgement without even being in the car? Can I say ur a piece of c*** even though i never met you?

 

[imported_situman]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: sxr7171

IMHO, the Lexus name gets far more recognition than it deserves as it is, so producing a $100,000 car to compete with MB, BMW, (and even Audi these days) is really pushing it.

While I feel there will be buyers for it, heck there were buyers for the Phaeton, I agree that in that price point there are many many other options with a more refined name...generally people who pay 100K on a car don't care about repair costs and or frequency as much as those who spend half that. It will be interesting though to see what they come up with and how well it sells.

umm so you saying rich people don't mind spending their preciou$ time going to the dealership to fix their cars? Time is money. Rich people live by that motto.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: situman

Yes, but if it's down to bragging rights $100K Benz > $100K Lexus.

Lexus owner-"Let's go play tennis this weekend.."

Benz owner-" Ummm can't car in the shop...can you pick me up?"

so much for bragging rights...[/quote]


Known plenty of Happy german owners as well as a few happy japanese owners....personally I do not see the appeal of Lexus, sure reliability is good but the looks are too bland and borish...


in response to this:

hmm i guess the Nissan Z has no soul, the last Supra has no soul, the last RX7 has no soul, the current RX8 has no soul....I guess American and German cars have alot of soul since they break alot more. If soul is defined by unreliability, it will be "soul" out of my garage and into the junk yard.

The new Nissan Z IMHO is nice but nothing I would get excited over..again typical japanese looks ok, good reliability but nothing to wet the bed over.

The Supra was excellent but it seems toyota has no real interest in catering to the enthusiast with unique and interesting cars (unless you consider their POS scions "enthusiast" cars) but would rather cater to joe blow and the mundane. If Toyota had any plans to bring this back then you could talk, but as of recently they have decided to kill both the Celica and the Mr2 which were the only remaining sporty cars they offered.

The older Rx7 was also nice, but the current Rx8 looks like a disaster, again typical japanese...plasticy looks, semi decent performance and just boarderline boring.

With german and american, while I know taste is subjective, their at least somewhat original with their styling and they attempt new designs, the new BMWs for example while not liked by many have a very unique and interesting look to them, virtually all american cars worth talking about have a certain style.....again Japanese cars are *nice* but nothing I would ever get overly excited about as they are just boring.

 

[Thraxen]

I love how so many people on this forum bash many American vehicles because they are unreliable... but now we have many people saying that they don't care how reliable Toyotas and other Japanese cars are, they would rather have the more unreliable car even if virtually every review puts the Japanese cars ahead. Badge whores.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
I love how so many people on this forum bash many American vehicles because they are unreliable... but now we have many people saying that they don't care how reliable Toyotas and other Japanese cars are, they would rather have the more unreliable car even if virtually every review puts the Japanese cars ahead. Badge whores.

thraxen I think the same people who bash american cars for their lack of reliability are the ones who are buying japanese cars whereas those who don't put reliability as a primary concern are fans of other autos....

for the most part I like Domestic cars, at least the ones which I find interesting (Cadillac, Corvette, Mustang, Marauder, GTO...etc) much more than any Japanese auto out there no matter how reliable the Japanese cars are...just as I enjoy german cars over that of japanese.

for me enjoyment comes first followed by reliability and looks.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: situman

Yes, but if it's down to bragging rights $100K Benz > $100K Lexus.

Lexus owner-"Let's go play tennis this weekend.."

Benz owner-" Ummm can't car in the shop...can you pick me up?"

so much for bragging rights...

Known plenty of Happy german owners as well as a few happy japanese owners....personally I do not see the appeal of Lexus, sure reliability is good but the looks are too bland and borish...


in response to this:

hmm i guess the Nissan Z has no soul, the last Supra has no soul, the last RX7 has no soul, the current RX8 has no soul....I guess American and German cars have alot of soul since they break alot more. If soul is defined by unreliability, it will be "soul" out of my garage and into the junk yard.

The new Nissan Z IMHO is nice but nothing I would get excited over..again typical japanese looks ok, good reliability but nothing to wet the bed over.

The Supra was excellent but it seems toyota has no real interest in catering to the enthusiast with unique and interesting cars (unless you consider their POS scions "enthusiast" cars) but would rather cater to joe blow and the mundane. If Toyota had any plans to bring this back then you could talk, but as of recently they have decided to kill both the Celica and the Mr2 which were the only remaining sporty cars they offered.

The older Rx7 was also nice, but the current Rx8 looks like a disaster, again typical japanese...plasticy looks, semi decent performance and just boarderline boring.

With german and american, while I know taste is subjective, their at least somewhat original with their styling and they attempt new designs, the new BMWs for example while not liked by many have a very unique and interesting look to them, virtually all american cars worth talking about have a certain style.....again Japanese cars are *nice* but nothing I would ever get overly excited about as they are just boring.[/quote]

How do you explain the new GTO? Or the piece of sh!t SSR (in it's current form) or the craptastic Thunderbird with no balls?

About the only cars America has going for it in the form of "muscle" and "emotion" is the Mustang, Vette, Viper and 300C/Magnum

 

[Kelvrick]

Ok, its a little late in the thread to chime in, but I find that in my mind, people who define "soul" are the people who drive cars with a flaw. The older mustangs, corvettes, they all had flaws where you had to fight to keep control while driving them and that was the "soul."

So, a lot of japanese cars took out those flaws and now, they're bashed for having no "soul." But I also see where they're coming from. Its like when you bite into say the perfect burger. There is almost no soul, its all flavor. But, when you go to your favorite burger joint, their burger will have soul because it has that distinct taste (or flaw) that you've had through the years and desired.

Well, thats my 2 cents and I can't wait for this 100k supercar either. In fact, I just remember how top gear says built like a mb.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: NFS4
How do you explain the new GTO? Or the piece of sh!t SSR (in it's current form) or the craptastic Thunderbird with no balls?

About the only cars America has going for it in the form of "muscle" and "emotion" is the Mustang, Vette, Viper and 300C/Magnum

Personally I just threw it in there because I saw a kit the other day that supposedly boosted the HP by some silly amount, then again the cost of the car is rather restrictive and the looks suck....the thunderbird is also not something I enjoy, from a looks standpoint it is unique but again I associate it with being a girly car...not up to date on the SSR so no comment. Overall though the four american cars you mentioned have more personality, style and are far more interesting than anything the japanese have to offer, not to mention the caddilac CTS/XLR, SVT lightning and personally I like the looks of the Lincoln LS...all of these IMHO are far more interesting and exciting than anything the japanese companies have delivered as of yet.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
Ok, its a little late in the thread to chime in, but I find that in my mind, people who define "soul" are the people who drive cars with a flaw. The older mustangs, corvettes, they all had flaws where you had to fight to keep control while driving them and that was the "soul."

So, a lot of japanese cars took out those flaws and now, they're bashed for having no "soul." But I also see where they're coming from. Its like when you bite into say the perfect burger. There is almost no soul, its all flavor. But, when you go to your favorite burger joint, their burger will have soul because it has that distinct taste (or flaw) that you've had through the years and desired.

Well, thats my 2 cents and I can't wait for this 100k supercar either. In fact, I just remember how top gear says built like a mb.

I don't know if I would say "flaw" maybe quirkyness or a unique aspect but everything in nature is inherently flawed to some degree....I would say the biggest flaw japanese cars have is that they are just boring, uninspired and only appeal to those who want something that goes from a-b and is reliable, I rarely ever hear anyone talk of how impressed they are with the looks or style of any japanese car, lexus included.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: bozack
With german and american, while I know taste is subjective, their at least somewhat original with their styling and they attempt new designs, the new BMWs for example while not liked by many have a very unique and interesting look to them, virtually all american cars worth talking about have a certain style.....again Japanese cars are *nice* but nothing I would ever get overly excited about as they are just boring.

your telling me the current crop of Benz vehicles have original styling? The new E-class is original? The upcoming C-class has original styling? While they look nice, they aren't original at all. They look japanese.

Even the new BMW photos for the upcoming 3-series makes the car look Japanese. It has that organic & anime look that quirky Japanese styling.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: situman

Yes, but if it's down to bragging rights $100K Benz > $100K Lexus.

Lexus owner-"Let's go play tennis this weekend.."

Benz owner-" Ummm can't car in the shop...can you pick me up?"

so much for bragging rights...

Known plenty of Happy german owners as well as a few happy japanese owners....personally I do not see the appeal of Lexus, sure reliability is good but the looks are too bland and borish...


in response to this:

hmm i guess the Nissan Z has no soul, the last Supra has no soul, the last RX7 has no soul, the current RX8 has no soul....I guess American and German cars have alot of soul since they break alot more. If soul is defined by unreliability, it will be "soul" out of my garage and into the junk yard.

The new Nissan Z IMHO is nice but nothing I would get excited over..again typical japanese looks ok, good reliability but nothing to wet the bed over.

The Supra was excellent but it seems toyota has no real interest in catering to the enthusiast with unique and interesting cars (unless you consider their POS scions "enthusiast" cars) but would rather cater to joe blow and the mundane. If Toyota had any plans to bring this back then you could talk, but as of recently they have decided to kill both the Celica and the Mr2 which were the only remaining sporty cars they offered.

The older Rx7 was also nice, but the current Rx8 looks like a disaster, again typical japanese...plasticy looks, semi decent performance and just boarderline boring.

With german and american, while I know taste is subjective, their at least somewhat original with their styling and they attempt new designs, the new BMWs for example while not liked by many have a very unique and interesting look to them, virtually all american cars worth talking about have a certain style.....again Japanese cars are *nice* but nothing I would ever get overly excited about as they are just boring.[/quote]

Plasticky, you should look at the new Corvette. Top Gear covered the Vette nicely.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: situman
Lexus owner-"Let's go play tennis this weekend.."

Benz owner-" Ummm can't car in the shop...can you pick me up?"

so much for bragging rights...

I've never seen a Mercedes dealership that didn't give you a car when yours was in for service. And that loaner they give you, it's not very likely to be a Toyota Camry.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: bozack
With german and american, while I know taste is subjective, their at least somewhat original with their styling and they attempt new designs, the new BMWs for example while not liked by many have a very unique and interesting look to them, virtually all american cars worth talking about have a certain style.....again Japanese cars are *nice* but nothing I would ever get overly excited about as they are just boring.

your telling me the current crop of Benz vehicles have original styling? The new E-class is original? The upcoming C-class has original styling? While they look nice, they aren't original at all. They look japanese.

Even the new BMW photos for the upcoming 3-series makes the car look Japanese. It has that organic & anime look that quirky Japanese styling.

PUH-LEASE. Acura stole the design of the 5 series and put it in the new TL. Then they stole the new design of the 3 series and put it in the TSX.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: bozack
With german and american, while I know taste is subjective, their at least somewhat original with their styling and they attempt new designs, the new BMWs for example while not liked by many have a very unique and interesting look to them, virtually all american cars worth talking about have a certain style.....again Japanese cars are *nice* but nothing I would ever get overly excited about as they are just boring.

your telling me the current crop of Benz vehicles have original styling? The new E-class is original? The upcoming C-class has original styling? While they look nice, they aren't original at all. They look japanese.

Even the new BMW photos for the upcoming 3-series makes the car look Japanese. It has that organic & anime look that quirky Japanese styling.

PUH-LEASE. Acura stole the design of the 5 series and put it in the new TL. Then they stole the new design of the 3 series and put it in the TSX.

WTH are you talking about? The TL looks more Italian than anything else. Looks NOTHING like a 5-Series. And the TSX looks nothing like the 3-Series. I don't know where you get tha crap from. One thing is for sure though, the new 3-Series and 5-Series look more Asian than German

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: isekii

Plasticky, you should look at the new Corvette. Top Gear covered the Vette nicely.

BUAHAHA, even the C6 has a craptacular interior:

If we have one complaint, it's the center stack. Why do manufacturers invest so much and then cut corners with cheap plastic surfaces Wal-Mart would reject? The C6 audio system may sound great, but visually, it could have come out of the cheapest Chevy Aveo.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7364&sid=184&n=157

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: bozack
With german and american, while I know taste is subjective, their at least somewhat original with their styling and they attempt new designs, the new BMWs for example while not liked by many have a very unique and interesting look to them, virtually all american cars worth talking about have a certain style.....again Japanese cars are *nice* but nothing I would ever get overly excited about as they are just boring.

your telling me the current crop of Benz vehicles have original styling? The new E-class is original? The upcoming C-class has original styling? While they look nice, they aren't original at all. They look japanese.

Even the new BMW photos for the upcoming 3-series makes the car look Japanese. It has that organic & anime look that quirky Japanese styling.

PUH-LEASE. Acura stole the design of the 5 series and put it in the new TL. Then they stole the new design of the 3 series and put it in the TSX.

and Benz now steals its designs from Hyundai and Kia :laugh: Look at the rear end of the new E or the C...its so generic. Look at hte new SLK..it looks ugly with that snout. It works well on the SLR, but not on the SLK. The CLK looks bland too..its about as exciting a design as the new GTO...ie: a bar of soap.

And the TL and TSX look nothing like BMW. Only thing they share is the high beltline and the crease that goes with it. But a lot of cars have that now.

The only companies putting on exciting designs are Mazda, Chrysler (altho only on two models), Caddlilac, Subaru, and Nissan.

I don't think anyone can call Subaru's designs derivative.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

and Benz now steals its designs from Hyundai and Kia :laugh: Look at the rear end of the new E or the C...its so generic. Look at hte new SLK..it looks ugly with that snout. It works well on the SLR, but not on the SLK. The CLK looks bland too..its about as exciting a design as the new GTO...ie: a bar of soap.

And the TL and TSX look nothing like BMW. Only thing they share is the high beltline and the crease that goes with it. But a lot of cars have that now.

AMEN!

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: bozack
With german and american, while I know taste is subjective, their at least somewhat original with their styling and they attempt new designs, the new BMWs for example while not liked by many have a very unique and interesting look to them, virtually all american cars worth talking about have a certain style.....again Japanese cars are *nice* but nothing I would ever get overly excited about as they are just boring.

your telling me the current crop of Benz vehicles have original styling? The new E-class is original? The upcoming C-class has original styling? While they look nice, they aren't original at all. They look japanese.

Even the new BMW photos for the upcoming 3-series makes the car look Japanese. It has that organic & anime look that quirky Japanese styling.

PUH-LEASE. Acura stole the design of the 5 series and put it in the new TL. Then they stole the new design of the 3 series and put it in the TSX.

WTF are you talking about? The TL looks more Italian than anything else. Looks NOTHING like a 5-Series. And the TSX looks nothing like the 3-Series. I don't know where you get tha crap from. One this is for sure though, the new 3-Series and 5-Series look more Asian than German

Put 'em all side by side. The TSX looks like some sort of A4\3-series mutt.