Oh, I'm sorry. He was supposed to have read his boss's mind and known this would have happened before he accepted the offer to go to lunch. I see...my bad!
Oh, I'm sorry. He was supposed to have read his boss's mind and known this would have happened before he accepted the offer to go to lunch. I see...my bad!
me ex fiancee was a lot like your boss, real preachy but her actions were not so saintlike.
i dont think jesus made your boss lose his mind. i think he lost his mind on his own.
i dont think jesus made your boss lose his mind. i think he lost his mind on his own.
Originally posted by: conjur
Anyway, we're there and the principal is giving a speech about what she is trying to accomplish in teaching the children. She gave the example of having a group of 5th graders cleaning up trash along the ground and saying that people driving by would see that and think, "Wow, that's great! Look at those kids caring for the environment." She said she would rather have people drive by and think, "Wow, that's great! Look at those kids cleaning the ground because of their love for their God."
The whole place had this cultish feeling...I felt very uneasy there.
what
teh
fvck
- M4H
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: conjur
Anyway, we're there and the principal is giving a speech about what she is trying to accomplish in teaching the children. She gave the example of having a group of 5th graders cleaning up trash along the ground and saying that people driving by would see that and think, "Wow, that's great! Look at those kids caring for the environment." She said she would rather have people drive by and think, "Wow, that's great! Look at those kids cleaning the ground because of their love for their God."
The whole place had this cultish feeling...I felt very uneasy there.
what
teh
fvck
- M4H
Ayup...we left promptly after the speech. That FREAKED me out!
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh, I'm sorry. He was supposed to have read his boss's mind and known this would have happened before he accepted the offer to go to lunch. I see...my bad!
I didn't say he needed to read his mind. But in no way has he ever been FORCED to listen to him as he is putting on.
Lets pull out the dictionary since you don't seem to understand what 'force' means....
Force - violence, compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing.
Did his boss use violence to hold him there? No.
Did his boss use a form of compulsion to hold him there? No.
Did his boss use a form of constraint to hold him there? No.
Therefore, his boss did nothing other than sing in public and it just so happened his employee was with him when he did it. Heaven forbid someone sing in public....
Originally posted by: TravisT
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh, I'm sorry. He was supposed to have read his boss's mind and known this would have happened before he accepted the offer to go to lunch. I see...my bad!
I didn't say he needed to read his mind. But in no way has he ever been FORCED to listen to him as he is putting on.
Lets pull out the dictionary since you don't seem to understand what 'force' means....
Force - violence, compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing.
Did his boss use violence to hold him there? No.
Did his boss use a form of compulsion to hold him there? No.
Did his boss use a form of constraint to hold him there? No.
Therefore, his boss did nothing other than sing in public and it just so happened his employee was with him when he did it. Heaven forbid someone sing in public....
Sure, because walking out on your boss won't cost you that promotion, vacation, or job. Dumbass.
And BTW, while I have nothing against someone saying a grace or something at a restaurant table near me, I'd have no qualms with walking over to some singing evangilical prick and telling him bluntly to shut the **** up.
- M4H
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: TravisT
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh, I'm sorry. He was supposed to have read his boss's mind and known this would have happened before he accepted the offer to go to lunch. I see...my bad!
I didn't say he needed to read his mind. But in no way has he ever been FORCED to listen to him as he is putting on.
Lets pull out the dictionary since you don't seem to understand what 'force' means....
Force - violence, compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing.
Did his boss use violence to hold him there? No.
Did his boss use a form of compulsion to hold him there? No.
Did his boss use a form of constraint to hold him there? No.
Therefore, his boss did nothing other than sing in public and it just so happened his employee was with him when he did it. Heaven forbid someone sing in public....
Sure, because walking out on your boss won't cost you that promotion, vacation, or job. Dumbass.
And BTW, while I have nothing against someone saying a grace or something at a restaurant table near me, I'd have no qualms with walking over to some singing evangilical prick and telling him bluntly to shut the **** up.
- M4H
Uhhh, you idiot. The only way he would be able to use compulsion force against you would be if he blatantly said 'If you listen to me sing, you will not get your promotion, you will get no vacation, or you will lose your job'. Did he ever say that? No. You guys are just assuming, and then I would assume you guys would have the wits to use legal actions against this employer if it did happen. Wrongful Termination anyone?
Assuming you guys are good employee's, i highly doubt that if you are good friends with your boss, he will fire you or do anything that you just mentioned over not going to lunch with him.
Based on your statements it's obvious that you have no real career. Please refrain on commenting about things you know nothing about.
First of all, I don't believe that Jesus made your boss lose his mind. Just the same as Jesus did not command the Pope to launch the crusades. These are choices made by man.
Now, if this man feels he owes his success in life to Jesus, then so be it, and if he wishes to publically acknowledge this by singing, or any other type of verbalization, it is his right. You don't have to listen to it.
If you want proof that God exists, think about this.
You are walking along and see a watch lying in the grass, how did it get there, who created it? Did it just appear out of thin air, no? But all the elements exist in the world for it to exist, so why can't it just be? Did the elements evolve into the watch? The answer is No, someone had to create the watch, bring all the elements together, form them into the pieces of the watch then assemble them into the final product.
Same as with the earth and all that exists on it. All the elements were there, do you think that they all came together as a coincidence? You think all the animals, plants, and other life on this planet just evolved due to happenstance? I don't think so. God had a plan, and it evolved over time, not in years or days as we measure them, but in God's time. The bible says God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, a day to Him may be 1 million years to us. That would explain the actual age of the earth, why we have fossils, etc.
How can you explain 2 different cultures who tell the same story of the same time frame? Example, Noah from the Jewish Old testament, and Gilgamesh King of Uruk in Babylonia. Both tell of an epic flood, both tell of a selected family to survive and keep animals. Both tell of the vessels settling on a mountain. God does exist, and you have free choice to believe and accept him. I will not force my beliefs on anyone, but do not chastize me when I tell you of them when asked. My freedom of religion and of free speech will not be trampled on by your over senistivity to issues.
Now, if this man feels he owes his success in life to Jesus, then so be it, and if he wishes to publically acknowledge this by singing, or any other type of verbalization, it is his right. You don't have to listen to it.
If you want proof that God exists, think about this.
You are walking along and see a watch lying in the grass, how did it get there, who created it? Did it just appear out of thin air, no? But all the elements exist in the world for it to exist, so why can't it just be? Did the elements evolve into the watch? The answer is No, someone had to create the watch, bring all the elements together, form them into the pieces of the watch then assemble them into the final product.
Same as with the earth and all that exists on it. All the elements were there, do you think that they all came together as a coincidence? You think all the animals, plants, and other life on this planet just evolved due to happenstance? I don't think so. God had a plan, and it evolved over time, not in years or days as we measure them, but in God's time. The bible says God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, a day to Him may be 1 million years to us. That would explain the actual age of the earth, why we have fossils, etc.
How can you explain 2 different cultures who tell the same story of the same time frame? Example, Noah from the Jewish Old testament, and Gilgamesh King of Uruk in Babylonia. Both tell of an epic flood, both tell of a selected family to survive and keep animals. Both tell of the vessels settling on a mountain. God does exist, and you have free choice to believe and accept him. I will not force my beliefs on anyone, but do not chastize me when I tell you of them when asked. My freedom of religion and of free speech will not be trampled on by your over senistivity to issues.
What choice did he have? Perhaps this performance lasted but 10-15 seconds. That's hardly enough time to sit and think of the consequences of getting up from a table seated across from one's BOSS and then acting on that thought to actually get up to leave.
Do you honestly think this is the only planet out of the billions upon billions out there that has life? We are a freak of nature, yes, in that the right combination of chemicals formed to create an atmosphere capable of sustaining life as we know it and then the formation of the first amino acid, and hence, all life thereafter.
Simple. See, the Jews didn't live in one spot for their entire history. They were enslaved by various other cultures and incorporated other creation tales into their own. How do I know this? A Scripture class I took in parochial school taught us of the history of various creation tales. And, yes, that's what they are, tales.
Creation stories:
Abraham, by biblical account, came from Ur, which was invaded and settled by the Sumerians about the fourth millennium BCE. The Sumerians were the dominant ethnic group of Ur until the conquest of the city by Semitic nomads about 2000 BCE. The Sumerian religion was polytheistic. There are similarities between the creation story of Genesis 2 and the Sumerian creation myth.
God does not exist and I am born of my own free will and determine the course of my own life and do not have a greater power to whom I need to answer or justify my actions.
Originally posted by: conjur
Reminds me of a time I took my oldest daughter to a Christian private school for an Open House to see what they offered (a friend of hers went there and it's actually a good school). Anyway, we're there and the principal is giving a speech about what she is trying to accomplish in teaching the children. She gave the example of having a group of 5th graders cleaning up trash along the ground and saying that people driving by would see that and think, "Wow, that's great! Look at those kids caring for the environment." She said she would rather have people drive by and think, "Wow, that's great! Look at those kids cleaning the ground because of their love for their God." The whole place had this cultish feeling...I felt very uneasy there.
Which reminds me of a time when I was "forced" to go with this one girl I used to like to one of those "born again" church. Man talking about hysteria, I don't really know what happens cuz I wasn't really listening, but at the end of the sermon, every one cried, some people started acting all crazy and shiet. Some of them even faked this language that they call "tounge" or wtf ever and started to convulse. It was the most hilarious/idiotic scene I've ever witnessed. I had a good laugh after that, never saw the girl again, cuz she wasn't gonna give it up any way, not 'til married and I have to be "one of them", no, THANK YOU!
I'm not doubting that there was a great flood. But, it didn't rain for 40 days and 40 nights. The number, 40, was used by the Jews to denote a long period of time. And, there was no ark, the entire earth was not flooded, yadda yadda yadda.
Significance of the number, 40
Creation Myths
The Bible's similarities with Egyptian, Greek and Babylonian mythology are too close to be a coincidence. The Bible?s writers weren?t isolated from other cultures and they didn?t get their ideas by sitting on some mountaintop meditating with God; they were inspired by the creation myths they came in contact with. The polite word is called syncretism; but since the Church hides that fact, the better term is plagiarism.
Well, you've clarified what forced mean, may be now you should look up "ignurd" as well.
Have you ever gotten your ass whooped by your dad? (may be you should) When he talks, do you listen? Even if its BS, but when your dad told you to listen, he didn't wring your neck or hold a knife to your throat, and you will listen (or don't you?). It's call "authoritah" and if you don't recognize the "autoritah", retribution is likely to be swift and painful. So FORCED is a right word to use. Not in sense of threaten by violent but otherwise could be detrimental to his career. If you're doing something you don't like, and have to do it, it's FORCED by any definition.
I highly doubt a Christian man such as the one in question would fire or take other punitive action against the original poster for expressing his discomfort in this situation. If he did, then he wouldn't have the patience and understanding of a true Christian. There's really only one way to find out though, and that's to actually talk to his boss. Until then, everything stated on both sides of the argument is pure speculation.
deerslayer
Lifer
- Jan 15, 2001
- 10,153
- 0
- 76
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
Originally posted by: classy
One more thing, Skoorb, people sing everywhere, everyday. They sing in the halls at work, walking down the street, riding the bike, etc. They sing any and all kinds of songs too. So what this guy should be punished cause he sings a church song, give me a break. I bet if some pretty blond sat down at lunch and started singing out loud you and a few others would come running in here talking about should I ask her out, she's so cool.
Actually if anyone is loud and obnoxious during my meal I will tell them to STFU, end of story, doesn't matter if she's a hot chick or some idiot religious zealot who despite his faith is going to hell anyway for judging others.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
Well I am not an expert, but I feel I know a little more than many here and out there spouting off how they are 'good Christians' and simply use the FACTS that support there is a God and deny the FACTS that say there isn't or make his existant inconclusive....the real fact is that any of the proofs that would absolutely show there is a God, don't limit that existance to only one God, nor do they in turn make him eternal.....there could still be a 'God-like' race calling the shots and creating things that eventually either die themselves or lose power over the years....like Kings on earth.
Anyways where it states you should preach was easy to find....
Mark 16:15-16, 'And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.' I think that one is the first thing they tell you at like 2 or 3 years old you should do
The non-preaching parts I couldn't find, they are there somewhere.....however consider this: Luke 23:34a And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." hehe
Then the Bible also states:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Paul says that women are to remain silent within the assembly: "Women should remain silent in the assemblies. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the assembly"
1 Timothy 2:11-12, "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent" .... Scripturally, a woman must never place her authority over a man?s.
What's your take on that...since everything is right in the Bible and all? Women should be quiet in matters of teaching and religion?
However belief in God/Jesus is not a requirement really...I can go on and on about this thing but some key parts of 'The Natural Law":
Romans 2:14-16 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
This 'Natural Law' is not written down anywhere, but many people believe it is closely approximated by The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) together with The Great Commandment (Matthew 22:35-40). The Natural Law requires that we recognize one God, Creator of the Universe (Romans 1:19-20). It's a complicated matter and most preachers will flat out not talk about it. Most things I brought up the preachers I have encountered avoid it or lie.
Timothy 4:10, "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." The Bible says that God is Savior of all men, "especially those who believe." It does not say "only those who believe." Believers in Christ have a straight and sure path away from Hell. But it is not the only path, if you believe what the Bible really says....however I am thinking you really have no clue and are just being a good little boy like momma and poppa want you to be and perhaps it was a bible study project to come rile up ATOT.
The part I really really think is hilarious is all these people out there (I'd be willing to say 90% of those religious) have absolutely no idea what their 'bible/book' is saying to them, they read at face value without thinking about how the parts relate (a good one is if Jesus was a poor man, how did the Wedding Of Canna come to be?....there was also already a church before Jesus came and a little bit of a coup to continue it, also the bible talks of how a church/altar should be made and almost no church follows that). I am not sure what I believe exactly, I imagine someone or something created whatever started the process of our existance, I believe that being/thing would have also wanted us to evolve as times and our environment change, and I also know many Christians, Catholics, Buddists, etc are following rules as 'Gospel' that do not exist in their 'Book/Bibles'. Going to chruch every Sunday and then possibly bible school and 'bible group' weekly doesn't teach you a damn thing but remembering things....no one thinks abstractly and subjectively to the topics they hear one week that sort of contradict some others the next month.
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Well I am not an expert, but I feel I know a little more than many here and out there spouting off how they are 'good Christians' and simply use the FACTS that support there is a God and deny the FACTS that say there isn't or make his existant inconclusive....the real fact is that any of the proofs that would absolutely show there is a God, don't limit that existance to only one God, nor do they in turn make him eternal.....there could still be a 'God-like' race calling the shots and creating things that eventually either die themselves or lose power over the years....like Kings on earth.
Anyways where it states you should preach was easy to find....
Mark 16:15-16, 'And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.' I think that one is the first thing they tell you at like 2 or 3 years old you should do
The non-preaching parts I couldn't find, they are there somewhere.....however consider this: Luke 23:34a And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." hehe
Then the Bible also states:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Paul says that women are to remain silent within the assembly: "Women should remain silent in the assemblies. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the assembly"
1 Timothy 2:11-12, "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent" .... Scripturally, a woman must never place her authority over a man?s.
What's your take on that...since everything is right in the Bible and all? Women should be quiet in matters of teaching and religion?
However belief in God/Jesus is not a requirement really...I can go on and on about this thing but some key parts of 'The Natural Law":
Romans 2:14-16 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
This 'Natural Law' is not written down anywhere, but many people believe it is closely approximated by The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) together with The Great Commandment (Matthew 22:35-40). The Natural Law requires that we recognize one God, Creator of the Universe (Romans 1:19-20). It's a complicated matter and most preachers will flat out not talk about it. Most things I brought up the preachers I have encountered avoid it or lie.
Timothy 4:10, "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." The Bible says that God is Savior of all men, "especially those who believe." It does not say "only those who believe." Believers in Christ have a straight and sure path away from Hell. But it is not the only path, if you believe what the Bible really says....however I am thinking you really have no clue and are just being a good little boy like momma and poppa want you to be and perhaps it was a bible study project to come rile up ATOT.
The part I really really think is hilarious is all these people out there (I'd be willing to say 90% of those religious) have absolutely no idea what their 'bible/book' is saying to them, they read at face value without thinking about how the parts relate (a good one is if Jesus was a poor man, how did the Wedding Of Canna come to be?....there was also already a church before Jesus came and a little bit of a coup to continue it, also the bible talks of how a church/altar should be made and almost no church follows that). I am not sure what I believe exactly, I imagine someone or something created whatever started the process of our existance, I believe that being/thing would have also wanted us to evolve as times and our environment change, and I also know many Christians, Catholics, Buddists, etc are following rules as 'Gospel' that do not exist in their 'Book/Bibles'. Going to chruch every Sunday and then possibly bible school and 'bible group' weekly doesn't teach you a damn thing but remembering things....no one thinks abstractly and subjectively to the topics they hear one week that sort of contradict some others the next month.
"It's in the Bible I have here that one should not preach and one is not damned for even marrying one who is not of like faith."
I still don't see any Biblical proof in what you've posted to back this statement up. I don't have time to respond to your post on a point-by-point basis since I have to leave for school in about 2 minutes, but I may in between school and work later this afternoon.
- Jan 16, 2001
- 31,528
- 3
- 76
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: TravisT
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Originally posted by: TravisT
Originally posted by: MichaelD
But hey, it's America and we are both FREE to choose what we wish.
Like you said, its america, we are both free to choose what we wish. Let the man sing if he wants to and stop contradicting yourself. Enough said.
Bah, that doesn' t even qualify you for the "nice try!" club.
When you singing about God, or washing your car or walking your dog interferes with someone else's way of life or quality of life, then it's a PROBLEM.
You obviously didn't have the attention span to read my entire post. You know...the thing this thread is about? Now go read "Participating in threads: A quality approach. 101" and submit your report NLT close of business tomorrow.
Sorry for the late response on this, but i did in fact read it (for a second time mind you)... I have yet to see, aside from you being embarrassed, how he forced YOU to do anything. Did he force you to close your eyes and bow your head for a moment of silence or something? Did he force you to say a prayer? Did he chain you to his car and drag you to church?
So to go back to my previous point, you mentioned Its america and we are all free to do as we wish. That includes you not going to lunch with him if you are embarrassed.
He was forced to sit and be subjected to ridiculous behaviour and what was tantamount to preaching.
Don't you hate it when your boss kidnaps you to take you out to breakfast/lunch and then chains you to a chair and forces you to listen to him sing while holding a gun to your head? Oh, wait, that never happened....
In a way, it did, and continues to happen.
Right or wrong, my boss is a selfish man. As long as you're hanging out w/him doing what he wants to do, life is easy for you. Should you buck him, things suddenly get more difficult. He can get nasty.
Again, right or wrong, that's the way it is. It's called living in the real world. The people w/the power get to make the decisions. He writes my ticket. Professionally, we get along fine. But he blurs the lines b/t professional and personal relationship.
He has stopped trying to save me from whatever out of control speed boat i'm in; but he's in his own world when it comes to God and his beliefs and such. He has no problem butting into your conversation should he hear you even mention God, Allah, the saviour, etc.
Rude? I think so. But he's his own man. I happen to work for him.
What he did is NO different than you and i sitting in a diner eating and suddenly I start singing "The Lumberjack Song" by Monty Python.
This thread rolls on...
alkemyst, as you mentioned, you cannot take things at face value but also have to look further into what Paul was saying about women and other areas. It tells them to keep silent, but yet Jesus himself told us to Sing and Worship and pray, not just men.
I believe that at the time of writing that Paul may have been having problems with submission within the church. However, in 1 Corinthians 11:4-5 it explicitly says both men and women pray and prophesy.
Though the ministry of women in the New Testament churches is not prominent in the record, nevertheless, there are certain references which indicate they were frequently and widely used in various capacities. Almost all commentators agree that Priscilla and her husband Aquila were side-by-side companions of the Apostle Paul in his work both in Corinth and in Ephesus, and that of the two, Priscilla was the more gifted and capable teacher, since her name is most often listed first. They were, together, the instructors of the mighty Apollos in his early preaching efforts. Here is a clear-cut case of a knowledgeable woman being used in the teaching of a man with no hint of an objection from Paul.
Further, in Paul's letter to the church in Philippi he urges an unnamed fellow-worker (probably Epaphroditus) to "help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel," Phil 4:3 NIV.
Note that the basic idea of the bible as far as worship him, believe in him, and you will be saved is still the basic concept. 'Major on the majors and minor on the minors'.
I believe that at the time of writing that Paul may have been having problems with submission within the church. However, in 1 Corinthians 11:4-5 it explicitly says both men and women pray and prophesy.
Though the ministry of women in the New Testament churches is not prominent in the record, nevertheless, there are certain references which indicate they were frequently and widely used in various capacities. Almost all commentators agree that Priscilla and her husband Aquila were side-by-side companions of the Apostle Paul in his work both in Corinth and in Ephesus, and that of the two, Priscilla was the more gifted and capable teacher, since her name is most often listed first. They were, together, the instructors of the mighty Apollos in his early preaching efforts. Here is a clear-cut case of a knowledgeable woman being used in the teaching of a man with no hint of an objection from Paul.
Further, in Paul's letter to the church in Philippi he urges an unnamed fellow-worker (probably Epaphroditus) to "help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel," Phil 4:3 NIV.
Note that the basic idea of the bible as far as worship him, believe in him, and you will be saved is still the basic concept. 'Major on the majors and minor on the minors'.
Religion is the opium of the masses.
Just punch him in the face and tell him that Jeeeeeeeezuz told you to do so. He will be happy and bleeding instead of happy and singing, a clear improvement if you ask me.
Forgive me though, i am a woman, and according to god i should just shut up and please my man.
Just punch him in the face and tell him that Jeeeeeeeezuz told you to do so. He will be happy and bleeding instead of happy and singing, a clear improvement if you ask me.
Forgive me though, i am a woman, and according to god i should just shut up and please my man.
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