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Question Jen Sung makes questionable decision? [RUMOR] NVidia tries to disable GPU mining?

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GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
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Nvidia is on the record saying gamers got 90%+ of the cards anyway. ($100-300 million sales for mining out of $2495 million total consumer sales) It's literally the same story as the last time: they keep saying strong demand is from gamers only, then when mining boom stops and overall demand plummets... they spin around really fast and talk about anything else but true mining sales estimates.



History won't be kind on this.
- NV is literally in the middle of a lawsuit saying they misrepresented their sales and product strength to investors during the last crypto boom by fudging the numbers around what portion of their new hardware sales were driven by mining.

It's a bold move, Cotton! Let's see if it pays off!
 

zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,010
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Curious what you guys think on this? The video that this click bait'y article links to 'shows' 10-15% reduction in performance

The NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is a shadow of its former self after 18 months of crypto mining - NotebookCheck.net News

I never had 2080 TI (still on 1080 TI predecessor) so I can not verify any of this
You can't directly compare two different cards and expect identical results, giving than ASIC quality is a thing and they may boost slighty differently. There are also factors like TIM degradation, dust builtup, etc. I would only consider such a thing if the comparison was properly done. Basically, install a brand new card, benchmark all what you want, backup the exact Windows install, Drivers, games versions, then have it mining for 18 months, restore the backup, clean the card, and benchmark everything again.


If anything, I may be willing to trust more a mining card for as long that it was treated well (Decently undervolted, not abused), since ironically, having something running 24/7 at the same temperature and operating parameters may be less long term less harmful than thermal expansion-contraction cycles as you expect in Notebook stuff (Going from sleep to turbo boost until you get to the upper thermal limit, stay there for a while, then go back to sleep). Oh, and gamers also likes to overclock, which could cause overvolting related degradation and thus more wear in a shorter time frame than something that was continuously operated at far below its standard operating parameters. In a mining card, I would be worried the most about the Fan remaining useful life than the wear on the chips of the card itself.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,062
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Curious what you guys think on this? The video that this click bait'y article links to 'shows' 10-15% reduction in performance

The NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is a shadow of its former self after 18 months of crypto mining - NotebookCheck.net News

I never had 2080 TI (still on 1080 TI predecessor) so I can not verify any of this
That's the stupidest thing ever. Zero comment or explanation whatsoever, but looking at the video, the "mining" card is clearly overheating and throttling itself down. Most likely either the GPU thermal paste has dried out or the fans have gone bad. Replacing both will fix the issue.

EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this video is a total clickbait turd. The "new" card runs at 49-57 degrees Celsius and there is no way a video card default fan curve will default to such a low temperature. No card does that by default. I'm convinced that the guy manually cranked the fans on the "new" card to 100% to achieve low temps like that to exaggerate difference between two cards. It's also even possible there is nothing wrong with "mining" card either, given his shenanigans with the "new" card it's entirely possible the guy intentionally set fan profile on the "mining" card to overheat.
 
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fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
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BTC, ETH, and every other alt (except for ADA for whatever weird reason) is in freefall, combined with everyone under the moon starting to mine again yes, profitability is falling through the floor.

The history is repeating itself. In 2017 at the height of the frenzy people started building rigs snatching every videocard they could no matter the price and then the bottom fell off couple of months later. If you guys are lucky there will be a glut of gently used mining cards right around when 4000/7000 series is out. If you're really lucky it'll depress the new card prices too. Me, I'm sitting on the sidelines, happy with my $400 3060ti that I got for my wife and $500 3070FE I got for myself, sold one RX480 for $240 and another one for $400, I could have timed selling my first rx480 better, but all in all not too shabby. I'm also mining on the new cards so when all said and done I'll essentially have my free upgrade from rx480's to 3060ti/3070. Couldn't be happier how things worked out for me given the circumstances.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
50,784
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Me, I'm sitting on the sidelines, happy with my $400 3060ti that I got for my wife and $500 3070FE I got for myself, sold one RX480 for $240 and another one for $400, I could have timed selling my first rx480 better, but all in all not too shabby. I'm also mining on the new cards so when all said and done I'll essentially have my free upgrade from rx480's to 3060ti/3070. Couldn't be happier how things worked out for me given the circumstances.
Very nicely played!

I debated sellig off my 20 GPUs for inflated prices a few weeks ago. I knew a crash was probably coming.

But now, I'm just going to "mine through the dips". (Power is included in my rent.)
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,719
3,359
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BTC, ETH, and every other alt (except for ADA for whatever weird reason) is in freefall, combined with everyone under the moon starting to mine again yes, profitability is falling through the floor.

The history is repeating itself. In 2017 at the height of the frenzy people started building rigs snatching every videocard they could no matter the price and then the bottom fell off couple of months later. If you guys are lucky there will be a glut of gently used mining cards right around when 4000/7000 series is out. If you're really lucky it'll depress the new card prices too. Me, I'm sitting on the sidelines, happy with my $400 3060ti that I got for my wife and $500 3070FE I got for myself, sold one RX480 for $240 and another one for $400, I could have timed selling my first rx480 better, but all in all not too shabby. I'm also mining on the new cards so when all said and done I'll essentially have my free upgrade from rx480's to 3060ti/3070. Couldn't be happier how things worked out for me given the circumstances.
What I am going to write is not in any way financvial advice.

The reason why Crypto is in freefall is because we haven't cleared up the Liquidity that has grown at brink of end of the year, and beginning of new year. We were in last stage of the January's correction, when Elon came out with the news that Tesla bought BTC worth 1.5 BLN USD, which pumped up BTC's price by 3k USD(10%) in just 3 hours. It trapped all of the liquidity at around 28K USD mark, and made whole market growth unsustainable.

This correction is just a consequence of that event. Untill we will get to sane weekly RSI levels on BTC, we won't start growing again. BTC's nominal value this year should be at around 100K USD according to Stock-to-Flow model, and around 288k according to Stock-to-Flow: Cross Asset model.

All of this suggests that we are going to get those price point in three phases. 55k(58K) was the first phase. Second one will be at around 100k and third - at around 288k.

It will happen most likely at the expense of longer cycles.

Previously we were expecting 112k by April. Im not expecting this level before August, now. And I am not expecting 288k before 2022.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,653
876
126
www.teamjuchems.com
What I am going to write is not in any way financvial advice.

The reason why Crypto is in freefall is because we haven't cleared up the Liquidity that has grown at brink of end of the year, and beginning of new year. We were in last stage of the January's correction, when Elon came out with the news that Tesla bought BTC worth 1.5 BLN USD, which pumped up BTC's price by 3k USD(10%) in just 3 hours. It trapped all of the liquidity at around 28K USD mark, and made whole market growth unsustainable.

This correction is just a consequence of that event. Untill we will get to sane weekly RSI levels on BTC, we won't start growing again. BTC's nominal value this year should be at around 100K USD according to Stock-to-Flow model, and around 288k according to Stock-to-Flow: Cross Asset model.

All of this suggests that we are going to get those price point in three phases. 55k(58K) was the first phase. Second one will be at around 100k and third - at around 288k.

It will happen most likely at the expense of longer cycles.

Previously we were expecting 112k by April. Im not expecting this level before August, now. And I am not expecting 288k before 2022.
I, for one, am OK with this. The pump from ~November to $55k was intense. Another doubling by August is still quite a rate of increase.

On the other side of the coin, even if mining abates, we are maybe weeks away from another US stimulus check and unemployment extension. I doubt that many dump their checks into crypto (they could) but I am wiling to bet that GPUs will be a target for many with $$$ in their pockets.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,651
2,412
136
Odd that only one province decided to do it. Before anyone gets excited, Inner Mongolia isn't very populous, so it would be similar to a state like Wisconsin banning mining in the U.S. Probably isn't going to affect much in the grand scheme of things and anyone who really wants to mine can just move.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
3,432
3,614
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Odd that only one province decided to do it. Before anyone gets excited, Inner Mongolia isn't very populous, so it would be similar to a state like Wisconsin banning mining in the U.S. Probably isn't going to affect much in the grand scheme of things and anyone who really wants to mine can just move.
According to this article, BTC mining in Mongolia accounts for 8% of the total hash rate in the entire world, so it's pretty significant. Apparently Mongolia is under pressure from China to reduce its energy use and this is one of their plans to do so.

Inner Mongolia to Shut Down Crypto Mining Industry: Report - CoinDesk
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Unless they ban it in other regions, the miners will just move out of Inner Mongolia and into other provinces or countries. It isn't as though BitCoin mining requires any kind of specific geography, etc. in order to perform. As long as you have somewhere to put the hardware and electricity to run it, it will work. Unlike manufacturing plants, it's not particularly hard to load up all of the GPUs, ASICs, and other equipment in a van and move it. Hell, you could probably build a massive mining operation into a shipping container, which I just Googled and found people are already doing.

Also, BitCoin mining is all done with ASICs now, so unless there was a considerable amount of ETH mining going on in Inner Mongolia as well, I don't see it changing much with respect to shortages of GPUs being caused by miners. The real problem seems to be that the government there was offering heavily subsidized electricity to the usual predictable results.
 
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,653
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www.teamjuchems.com
Unless they ban it in other regions, the miners will just move out of Inner Mongolia and into other provinces or countries. It isn't as though BitCoin mining requires any kind of specific geography, etc. in order to perform. As long as you have somewhere to put the hardware and electricity to run it, it will work. Unlike manufacturing plants, it's not particularly hard to load up all of the GPUs, ASICs, and other equipment in a van and move it. Hell, you could probably build a massive mining operation into a shipping container, which I just Googled and found people are already doing.

Also, BitCoin mining is all done with ASICs now, so unless there was a considerable amount of ETH mining going on in Inner Mongolia as well, I don't see it changing much with respect to shortages of GPUs being caused by miners. The real problem seems to be that the government there was offering heavily subsidized electricity to the usual predictable results.
If it's truly a ban on GPU mining, the BTC ASIC warehouses won't even move and the 8% energy consumption for BTC mining will likely be completely unaffected.

Only alt coins can be GPU mined with any results at all.

Back in the day, like 7 years ago, I pulled the plug when the Butterfly Labs and Jalapeno devices hit the market and it was going to take me like 2 months to get a 1 BTC pool reward with 5 GPUs. I should have doubled down. Or been active sooner. Sigh.

Anyway, the antminers that pushed out GPUs are so many generations in that the original 2-3 generations of antminers are completely useless now too.

I am saying that no matter the price of electricity that direct GPU BTC mining is pointless.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
3,432
3,614
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If it's truly a ban on GPU mining, the BTC ASIC warehouses won't even move and the 8% energy consumption for BTC mining will likely be completely unaffected.

Only alt coins can be GPU mined with any results at all.

Back in the day, like 7 years ago, I pulled the plug when the Butterfly Labs and Jalapeno devices hit the market and it was going to take me like 2 months to get a 1 BTC pool reward with 5 GPUs. I should have doubled down. Or been active sooner. Sigh.

Anyway, the antminers that pushed out GPUs are so many generations in that the original 2-3 generations of antminers are completely useless now too.

I am saying that no matter the price of electricity that direct GPU BTC mining is pointless.
They are shutting down all mining operations.
 
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MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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If it's truly a ban on GPU mining, the BTC ASIC warehouses won't even move and the 8% energy consumption for BTC mining will likely be completely unaffected.

Only alt coins can be GPU mined with any results at all.

Back in the day, like 7 years ago, I pulled the plug when the Butterfly Labs and Jalapeno devices hit the market and it was going to take me like 2 months to get a 1 BTC pool reward with 5 GPUs. I should have doubled down. Or been active sooner. Sigh.

Anyway, the antminers that pushed out GPUs are so many generations in that the original 2-3 generations of antminers are completely useless now too.

I am saying that no matter the price of electricity that direct GPU BTC mining is pointless.
Should have just bought a whole bunch of Jalapenos. :)
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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876
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www.teamjuchems.com
Should have just bought a whole bunch of Jalapenos. :)
Sigh. Just rub it in, will yeah? :p

I basically missed the boat, but I think winning a crypto coin lottery would have had other consequences, not all of them positive. It's fine. Sometimes I wonder about those guys that were mining a bunch and day trading at like ~$30 per BTC and what they are doing now. I was spending too much time in the DC subforum and only saw the BTC threads rarely. I don't think they are posting here anymore :D
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,651
2,412
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Most people who were mining back then were selling their coins to buy newer GPUs to allow them to mine more efficiently in order to keep up with the other people doing the same. No doubt some people made a lot of money, but I suspect that most of them were a bit like the miners during a gold rush where a lot of their profit got eaten up in various expenses.

Maybe there are a few people who bought in when BTC was far less expensive and then cashed out at the peak, but those are also likely to be pretty rare. I suspect that far more bought in and cashed out as soon as they got a really nice return that already seemed too good to be true.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,098
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Most people who were mining back then were selling their coins to buy newer GPUs to allow them to mine more efficiently in order to keep up with the other people doing the same. No doubt some people made a lot of money, but I suspect that most of them were a bit like the miners during a gold rush where a lot of their profit got eaten up in various expenses.

Maybe there are a few people who bought in when BTC was far less expensive and then cashed out at the peak, but those are also likely to be pretty rare. I suspect that far more bought in and cashed out as soon as they got a really nice return that already seemed too good to be true.
Most likely. Even the HODLers have probably done some profit taking. If you bought in at $5 I'm sure a lot of people sold when it first went above $100, and then again at $1000 and $10000.
I imagine the number of people who actually bought a good hunk at under $10 and sold for $60k is pretty small.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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$60k only looks like a great price now because of the limited hindsight we had. If it's $600k in 5 years then it's really not too different from the people who bought in at $10 and got out at $100.

At some point the people who are best off are the ones that tried out mining out of curiosity and then forgot about it. Suppose you mined a single BitCoin back when you could still do that on a GPU just to try it out and then never mined again. If you just waited long enough you could probably earn more from that single coin than someone who was constantly mining, selling coins to buy new GPUs, then ASICs, etc. would across years and years.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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$60k only looks like a great price now because of the limited hindsight we had. If it's $600k in 5 years then it's really not too different from the people who bought in at $10 and got out at $100.

At some point the people who are best off are the ones that tried out mining out of curiosity and then forgot about it. Suppose you mined a single BitCoin back when you could still do that on a GPU just to try it out and then never mined again. If you just waited long enough you could probably earn more from that single coin than someone who was constantly mining, selling coins to buy new GPUs, then ASICs, etc. would across years and years.
Oh probably. That person would have had to not noticed when it hit 100 and remembered though, or when it surged in November 2013 to over $1000 and the press was all over it. You see the occasional article now where someone reports on the hard drive with millions in Bitcoin on it that's sitting somewhere in the dumb or the guy who has one more password try on his wallet before it's erased.
 

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