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Question Jen Sung makes questionable decision? [RUMOR] NVidia tries to disable GPU mining?

VirtualLarry

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Aug 25, 2001
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So now, not only is Nvidia's chairman selling GPUs that can be used for Compute (*formerly called GPGPU - "General Purpose"), he's rum0ored to be attempting to effectively regulate WHAT PROGRAMS are ALLOWED to be run on the GPUs that they mfg?

Imaging if Intel decided to decree, that their CPUs, could no longer be used for searching for prime numbers.

This whole idea is a slippery slope that I am NOT willing to go down.

And to think, this is all just an (alleged) stupid band-aid, over their mfg and supply-chain issues.

If Nvidia could effectively supply all of their GPU markets with product, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Edit: If this rumor turns out to be true, expect class-action lawsuits against NVidia, much like what happened to Sony with the PS3 losing functionality (running Linux) after people purchased them.

Now, ALL NVIDIA RETAILERS will be forced to post a prominent disclaimer of the software that is NOT ALLOWED to be run on these GPUs, or they will get sued as well.

Update:
NVidia to phase out all existing Ampere PCI device-ids, phase in EtH mining "block" across ALL new Ampere line-up!
 
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Mopetar

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Jan 31, 2011
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Yeah, that's pretty idiotic. If they were really worried about making sure gamers who wanted their cards had a good chance at getting one there are far better ways of accomplishing that over something like this.
 

VirtualLarry

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I still think that this is a stupid move, as CUDA cores are supposed to be "general purpose" and "turing complete", essentially, as I understand it.

BUT... considering that NVidia is a MASTER at marketing...

maybe this is really just the opening salvo in a two-pronged attack on miners...

NEXT step is to release unrestricted compute ("mining") cards based on Ampere GPU consumer silicon, without video outputs.

That may be what the rumor-monger shown in the video was alluding to.
 

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
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Pretty sure it's Jen Sen or Jen-Hsun. Never heard of this Jen Sung character....

It would be an interesting strategy if they locked out specific applications at the driver level unless authenticated with a Geforce account. No idea if the rumor is anywhere near this as I haven't watched the video.

If they allowed customer authentication to unlock specific app/workload access I can see a case made against some kind of class action. (Not that I support or endorse the idea).
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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You know nvidia already does something similar with NVEC.
The gamer class cards are all locked at how many simultaneous NVEC threads they can decode, while if you get the expensive quadro's you are unlocked at unlimited.

So if you want a good plex/emby box with lots of simultaneous hardware transcoding, you need a quadro and not a GTX.
 

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
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Sep 13, 2008
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I kinda doubt they would go that far, but we will see. I certainly wouldn't want to be told what apps I can and cannot run on my GPU.
 
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Dribble

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2005
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I'm quite happy for my gpu to only be able to run the apps I need if it allows me to actually buy one at a reasonable price. I am sure they can also sell gpu's that miners can use too and those who want one of them can go fight with the miners to try and buy one.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
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Good riddance redacted miners!

Nvidia for once is doing the right thing. If they proceed to doing so that is.

They are selling you a graphics card. Not a mining card. Go get a mining asic if you want to mine or GTFO! Useless power virus idiots, want to make money out of thin air, lazy bastards!




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zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
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Yeah nVidia, go ahead and do it. I want to see the shareholders faces when they hear that the CEO wants to cut the flow of products to customers that purchases GPUs in bulk amounts and dramatically increase the ASP due to unprecedent demand just to appease the gamers hate for miners. Nor you can force miners to go to professional cards that are more expensive, more so if AMD keeps things the way they are. Sounds like a way to alienate an important customer base and lose A LOT of sales, and gamers aren't going to compensate for that due to volume.
I could actually bet that what keep AMD afloat during most of the last decade when it was far from competitive on CPUs and average on GPU was precisely miners, since Radeons were historically way better for raw compute than nVidia, so miners used to not touch GeForces until the recent generations.


Also, nVidia already does something similar with virtualization. You aren't intended to use standard GeForces for gaming inside a VM via PCI Passthrough, only Quadros that are 3-4 times more expensive for similar specifications. The GPU Driver refuses to work inside a VM. Luckily, that can be workarounded, so you can manage to get GeForces working anyways. So I will assume that this will also be workarounded, because it will be some check that will eventually be bypasses with modded Drivers or whatever.
Stupid draconic EULAs be damned, go and shove it where the sun doesn't brights.
 

VirtualLarry

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Sounds like a way to alienate an important customer base and lose A LOT of sales, and gamers aren't going to compensate for that due to volume.
This. Once sales drop by a SIGNIFICANT amount, then NVidia will be left trying to explain why SO MUCH of their revenue was coming from mining, something that they've (*allegedly) understated in the past, and were sued by their shareholders for. This will just throw fuel on the fire there. Go for it NVidia, see how long you can make the lawsuit fires around you burn~! LOL.
 
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VirtualLarry

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there is nothing wrong with mining on your GPU when not gaming.
Interestingly, for the "small hobby miner / gamers", the people that buy maybe 1-2 cards a generation for their rigs, and pay for it, in large part, by mining while they're not gaming - if Nvidia cuts off that possibility, then that really changes the calculus for those customers, if they can no longer make their purchase pay for itself over time.

They may well move to AMD cards instead, for gaming (remember, GPU companies consider gamers to be more "loyal" customers), precisely BECAUSE they can still mine, and pay for themselves.

NVidia will have to factor that into their pricing scheme, and thus, their ASPs for their cards WILL have to come down, if they are no longer mining-capable. Leading to LOWER sales revenue.

This might even give AMD the aura of a "halo effect" on their cards, whereas NVidia cards will be "gaming-only, and NON-minable", AMD cards will be BOTH, and thus MORE desireable in the marketplace, and thus, garner higher ASPs and a premium market position. Much like Zen3 CPUs enjoy now, having finally beat Intel CPUs in all cases for gaming.

Nvidia cards might be start to be see as "bargain brand", precisely because they would become non-minable. Much like Intel is now seen as a budget brand.

My how the mighty have fallen. Intel/Nvidia rigs used to be see as a "Premium" PC product, not anymore!

Edit: Basically, basic supply/demand rules apply here. There IS DEMAND for "mining cards". If Nvidia is no longer willing and able to supply that demand, then it will be fulfilled elsewhere. NVidia's hubris at the market, thinking that they along can control it, be damned.
 
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Golgatha

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Jul 18, 2003
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You know nvidia already does something similar with NVEC.
The gamer class cards are all locked at how many simultaneous NVEC threads they can decode, while if you get the expensive quadro's you are unlocked at unlimited.

So if you want a good plex/emby box with lots of simultaneous hardware transcoding, you need a quadro and not a GTX.
Yes, but....

 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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I don't support this, but Nvidia has always had lots of restrictions on what can run on their cards. At one point 3D Vision worked only with their own box you had to buy, and people created driver hacks to run it without that. Same with Freesync monitors until recently.
 

Dribble

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2005
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You guys do realize you can do both on a single card right? I understand the frustration when users buy dozens or hundreds of cards, but there is nothing wrong with mining on your GPU when not gaming.
Only if you can buy that card for a reasonable sum of money, which if big money making corporate mining farms want it isn't going to happen. If you segment your product stack to protect me from those big buyers so I stand a much better chance of being able to buy a card aimed at me, the gamer, I am happy. If you want to mine then it's only fair that you have to compete with everyone else wanting to mine with those cards. What's not so fair is when pure gamers have to compete with miners who are willing to spend more money because they are using the cards to make money not to just have some fun playing games.

Nvidia already does this with other markets. I don't have to pay quadro or telsa prices, those cards are aimed at big business customers. I pay the gaming price which is cheaper. It just so happens that mining has become a new big business market and they are using the cheap gaming cards instead of cards built for them. For nvidia to introduce a new line aimed at miners while stopping them being able to use gaming cards is quite reasonable.
 
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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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Yeah nVidia, go ahead and do it. I want to see the shareholders faces when they hear that the CEO wants to cut the flow of products to customers that purchases GPUs in bulk amounts and dramatically increase the ASP due to unprecedent demand just to appease the gamers hate for miners. Nor you can force miners to go to professional cards that are more expensive, more so if AMD keeps things the way they are. Sounds like a way to alienate an important customer base and lose A LOT of sales, and gamers aren't going to compensate for that due to volume.
I could actually bet that what keep AMD afloat during most of the last decade when it was far from competitive on CPUs and average on GPU was precisely miners, since Radeons were historically way better for raw compute than nVidia, so miners used to not touch GeForces until the recent generations.


Also, nVidia already does something similar with virtualization. You aren't intended to use standard GeForces for gaming inside a VM via PCI Passthrough, only Quadros that are 3-4 times more expensive for similar specifications. The GPU Driver refuses to work inside a VM. Luckily, that can be workarounded, so you can manage to get GeForces working anyways. So I will assume that this will also be workarounded, because it will be some check that will eventually be bypasses with modded Drivers or whatever.
Stupid draconic EULAs be damned, go and shove it where the sun doesn't brights.
Mining revenue actually isn't seen as much of a positive by shareholders as it is seen as more as short term revenue and not a new market opportunity and is disruptive to Nvidia's core GPU markets. I'm not saying that all mining revenue is seen as bad, but the huge spikes and falls caused by the mining demand is seen as a net negative. Also, ASP isn't really effected by mining as Nvidia doesn't see anything more from the increased card prices, that goes to the retailers who do markups, scalpers reselling the cards, and Ebay/Paypal fees. I think shareholders would actually welcome this news and would like to see miners pushed to either a quadro line of cards, or miner specific SKUs.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
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Only if you can buy that card for a reasonable sum of money, which if big money making corporate mining farms want it isn't going to happen. If you segment your product stack to protect me from those big buyers so I stand a much better chance of being able to buy a card aimed at me, the gamer, I am happy. If you want to mine then it's only fair that you have to compete with everyone else wanting to mine with those cards. What's not so fair is when pure gamers have to compete with miners who are willing to spend more money because they are using the cards to make money not to just have some fun playing games.

Nvidia already does this with other markets. I don't have to pay quadro or telsa prices, those cards are aimed at big business customers. I pay the gaming price which is cheaper. It just so happens that mining has become a new big business market and they are using the cheap gaming cards instead of cards built for them. For nvidia to introduce a new line aimed at miners while stopping them being able to use gaming cards is quite reasonable.
Or move "gamers" over to "cloud gaming", since they aren't willing to pay the same high level of ASPs for NVidia's cards.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
50,784
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Also, ASP isn't really effected by mining as Nvidia doesn't see anything more from the increased card prices
LOL if you believe that. MSRP for cards has gone up TWICE for AIB cards in the last few months. (First, allegedly according to Tariff exclusions that were ending, and again, due to supposed GDDR6/6X "shortages".) Don't believe for a second that AIBs and NVidia aren't making more money from this.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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LOL if you believe that. MSRP for cards has gone up TWICE for AIB cards in the last few months. (First, allegedly according to Tariff exclusions that were ending, and again, due to supposed GDDR6/6X "shortages".) Don't believe for a second that AIBs and NVidia aren't making more money from this.
Well, the tariff exclusions did end, so that will obviously be passed on to the consumer (politicians never have seemed to understand this). I'm not aware of a second MSRP increase, but shipping costs and component costs have risen significantly over the last few months or so and can be seen industry wide. Maybe Nvidia snuck in a slightly higher margin on the GPU in there, but I highly doubt they are more than a small amount (if any amount) of the MSRP increases in light of the other factors.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I still think that this is a stupid move, as CUDA cores are supposed to be "general purpose" and "turing complete", essentially, as I understand it.

BUT... considering that NVidia is a MASTER at marketing...

maybe this is really just the opening salvo in a two-pronged attack on miners...

NEXT step is to release unrestricted compute ("mining") cards based on Ampere GPU consumer silicon, without video outputs.

That may be what the rumor-monger shown in the video was alluding to.
I agree good guess.
It has to irritate nvidia that so many cards go to mining because
1) They likely don’t earn money on the markup
2) if they market price the cards few gamers would be willing to pay the rest would be pissed
3) long term brand damage with prices over retail costs and zero card availablity

Assuming the resources are in place restrict mining on game cards, make a separate but similar mining card that sells for more money but can game & mine or as Larry said can mine only no option to game
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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I don't know how they would implement it, but it seems hard to believe they would have much success specifically blocking crypto mining without neutering GP compute on their cards. Maybe with all the hooks into your system that the Windows Geforce software has they could prevent gamers from mining on their computers during their downtime, but I'd be shocked if they could successfully block mining on linux in a way that wouldn't be trivially patched.
 
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SteveGrabowski

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Oct 20, 2014
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I agree good guess.
It has to irritate nvidia that so many cards go to mining because
1) They likely don’t earn money on the markup
2) if they market price the cards few gamers would be willing to pay the rest would be pissed
3) long term brand damage with prices over retail costs and zero card availablity

Assuming the resources are in place restrict mining on game cards, make a separate but similar mining card that sells for more money but can game & mine or as Larry said can mine only no option to game
Don't forget the inevitable flood of cheap used mining gpus once the pump and dump is over. That did so much damage to AMD back in 2014 when their used cards got so cheap and they had manufactured so many cards for LiteCoin mining that you could pull R9 290 brand new for $200 to $230 once mining became unprofitable on them. God the R9 290 was like the RTX 3070 of the day too.
 

SteveGrabowski

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Oct 20, 2014
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Good riddance **cking miners!

Nvidia for once is doing the right thing. If they proceed to doing so that is.

They are selling you a graphics card. Not a mining card. Go get a mining asic if you want to mine or GTFO! Useless power virus idiots, want to make money out of thin air, lazy bastards!
Freaking ETH is designed to screw gamers over every couple of years by making their algorithm ASIC resistant. Mining is cancer. Pump and dump garbage that's designed to keep consuming more and more power over time, I wish the crap would get killed off.
 

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