Question Jen Sung makes questionable decision? [RUMOR] NVidia tries to disable GPU mining?

[VirtualLarry]

So now, not only is Nvidia's chairman selling GPUs that can be used for Compute (*formerly called GPGPU - "General Purpose"), he's rum0ored to be attempting to effectively regulate WHAT PROGRAMS are ALLOWED to be run on the GPUs that they mfg?

Imaging if Intel decided to decree, that their CPUs, could no longer be used for searching for prime numbers.

This whole idea is a slippery slope that I am NOT willing to go down.

And to think, this is all just an (alleged) stupid band-aid, over their mfg and supply-chain issues.

If Nvidia could effectively supply all of their GPU markets with product, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Edit: If this rumor turns out to be true, expect class-action lawsuits against NVidia, much like what happened to Sony with the PS3 losing functionality (running Linux) after people purchased them.

Now, ALL NVIDIA RETAILERS will be forced to post a prominent disclaimer of the software that is NOT ALLOWED to be run on these GPUs, or they will get sued as well.

Update:
NVidia to phase out all existing Ampere PCI device-ids, phase in EtH mining "block" across ALL new Ampere line-up!

 

[Shmee]

You sound a bit angry, and you probably don't even understand it fully...All I hear is hyperbole.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

You sound a bit angry, and you probably don't even understand it fully...All I hear is hyperbole.

I understand that Nvidia seems to view mining as a threat to them and I understand they don't owe you the ability to mine on cards designed for gaming.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I understand they don't owe you the ability to mine on cards designed for gaming.

"CUDA"... have you perhaps heard of that? Ever since, well, roughly the GTX 460, maybe a gen or two before that, Nvidia introduced the ability for ALL of their GPUs, to do "GPGPU" - "General Purpose GPU Compute". Ever since then, that has been a (strong) selling point for Nvidia GPUs. Evidently, not any longer. Why take the risk developing CUDA apps for Nvidia, if they are just going to be "locked out" at a driver level, when the "gamer hate de jure" focuses on them. Not worth the risk any more, not worth the R&D expense. Watch Nvidia's "CUDA Compute Empire" fall apart completely at this announcement. Which means less R&D money pouring into "gamer" GPU research, which eventually leads to Nvidia falling behind in the GPU race, just like Intel.

But hey, as also-ran GPUs, they WILL be cheaper and more available for "gamers" to purchase. After all, that what they really want, not top-class silicon capable of doing anything that the user desires.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

"CUDA"... have you perhaps heard of that? Ever since, well, roughly the GTX 460, maybe a gen or two before that, Nvidia introduced the ability for ALL of their GPUs, to do "GPGPU" - "General Purpose GPU Compute". Ever since then, that has been a (strong) selling point for Nvidia GPUs. Evidently, not any longer. Why take the risk developing CUDA apps for Nvidia, if they are just going to be "locked out" at a driver level, when the "gamer hate de jure" focuses on them. Not worth the risk any more, not worth the R&D expense. Watch Nvidia's "CUDA Compute Empire" fall apart completely at this announcement. Which means less R&D money pouring into "gamer" GPU research, which eventually leads to Nvidia falling behind in the GPU race, just like Intel.

But hey, as also-ran GPUs, they WILL be cheaper and more available for "gamers" to purchase. After all, that what they really want, not top-class silicon capable of doing anything that the user desires.

Hating mining isn't gamer hate du jour, mining has been a bane to gamers for years now. I hope they do shut down ETH mining since ETH has taken aim specifically at them. Nvidia doesn't owe you anything if it hurts their bottom lines. If Nvidia thinks the boom bust cycles of cryptomining make them money then tough **** for gamers, if they think it hurts them then tough **** for you.

 

[zir_blazer]

If nVidia wanted for its cards to be for gaming only, CUDA would have never been introduced to consumer cards. And CUDA was a major selling point vs Radeons, because a lot of major Software suits didn't really bothered with OpenCL, so nVidia holds a major monopoly on CUDA-only applications. The most fun thing is that nVidia didn't even bothered to artificially cap CUDA performance, so a GeForce and a equivalent Quadro performed the same for CUDA applications, which ironically should have moved certain use cases from Quadro to the cheaper GeForces.

Ethereum was thought as to raise the middle finger to ASICs so that dedicated Hardware doesn't obsolete standard GPUs like it happened to Bitcoin. I doubt that it was made to "screw gamers". And every now and then some professional miner gets rid of old cards for dirt cheap prices that are still usable, same as happens on the enterprise segment where ocasionally you see eBay flooded with used Xeons and ECC RDIMMs that are dirt cheap and worthy of consideration vs a standard consumer build.


Actually, if you want to only game, why the hell are you buying a multipurpuse computer? There are consoles that exists only for gaming, you know. And as far that I know, it isn't worth to mine on those.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Actually, if you want to only game, why the hell are you buying a multipurpuse computer? There are consoles that exists only for gaming, you know.

Exactly.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Ethereum was thought as to raise the middle finger to ASICs so that dedicated Hardware doesn't obsolete standard GPUs like it happened to Bitcoin. I doubt that it was made to "screw gamers".

It's a middle finger to gamers whether or not its PR says so.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Actually, if you want to only game, why the hell are you buying a multipurpuse computer? There are consoles that exists only for gaming, you know. And as far that I know, it isn't worth to mine on those.

I'm not putting money into my PC right now because these miners are screwing up the PC hardware market for gamers again and they can shove their used cards once the bubble pops again. PS5 and Series X would likely be great to mine on if someone could find a way to hack them. Thankfully there are no public exploits released for them, I'd hate to be competing with cryptocurrency miners trying to get a PS5.

 

[VirtualLarry]

because these miners are screwing up the PC hardware market for gamers again

Tell me again, exactly HOW are they doing that?

And why are the GPU suppliers, which are greatly capacity-constrained, for a number of reasons, somehow, in your eyes, NOT responsible. Nope, it's "gotta be dem miners, suckin up all dem GPUs!".

Do you think that miners have a "GPU hotline", a "red phone" straight to AMD, and a "green phone" straight to Nvidia, call them up, "Yes, I'd like 100 GPUs please, extra on-the-double".

I mean, maybe? I know I don't have those numbers. I'm a miner, and I DON'T have any Ampere cards. I would be competing with bots and scalpers just the same as you, to get some of those cards.

 

[SPBHM]

they probably want the miners to buy some quadro...
making money on lower margin products is evil!

 

[psolord]

Actually, if you want to only game, why the hell are you buying a multipurpuse computer? There are consoles that exists only for gaming, you know. And as far that I know, it isn't worth to mine on those.

Are you serious right now? Do you people even game on PC?

I use a multipurpose computer for gaming because:

- I want standard keyboard and mouse support for all games
- I want the freedom to use whatever control method I want, steering wheels, hotas, a myriad brands of mice and keyboards
- I want the freedom to use whatever VR headset I facny
- I want the freedom to not be forced to pay subscriptions, for online gaming support
- I want the right to be able to preserve my childhood gaming memories through emulation and why not even have the chance to see these emulated games at a much better state, through better resolutions and filtering
- I want the freedom to select any or all games stores for my games
- I want the free games that are given permanently from all those game stores
- I want the option to play said games on GeForce Now when I am on a weaker computer
- I want to play my games at the resolution I want, at the refresh rate I want, at the aspect ratio I want
- I want to be able to mod my games to hell and back
- I want to play my games at the settings I choose to do so, according to how deep my pocket is
- Even if my pocket is not deep at all, I still want to play Godfall and The Medium on my 2500k and GTX 970. If I had a PS4, Godfall is out of the question (others will come too) and if I had an XBOX One, The Medium is out of the question too.
- I want the right to use whatever storage I want to store my games and not be dictated where I install current gen games vs last gen ones
- I want compatibility that goes decades back
- I want every single penny I spend, to be instantly shown on screen, without having to wait for patches with limited options too
- I want to have access to as many games as possible, because I can play Halo, Gears, Forza, Horizon Zero Dawn, Death Stranding, Detroit, Street Fighter, Fable, Hades, Quantum Break, Hellblade, Ori, Sea of Thieves, The Medium, Godfall, Star Citizen, MS Flight Sim, without having to own two consoles.
- I want the option to be able to upgrade, without having to throw away my previous system in its total. I mean why throw away my case, psu, controllers, storage and in some cases even the mobo, if I just can reuse them; Most of the times a single gpu upgrade is enough. A gpu upgrade that is hindered by stinking mining.
- I want the option to be able to play some games, even if I don't pay for them. Whether they be legally free or illegally. Yes, for some people that are having serious financial problems, I excuse the illegality of the matter. Gaming may not be bread, but it's still a necessity that allows you to vent.

So there you have it. For all the above, the most important part is a GPU, under the presumption that you are an ongoing PC gamer with the minimal hardware required. And for all that, the hindrance is mining up to a degree. I mean I believe Covid has made things worse than mining but still.

I am not talking about, boohoo, why you bad miner got the 3080 I wanted and you drove the prices up. They are drying up the whole market as a consequence and even a poor man's rx570 is out of reach, since they have gone up to 300 euros ffs. A card previously at 150.

So the miner's will to gather more wealth and his capacity to do so, drains the basic right of entertainment from the poor guy. And for what? To gather a virtual wealth by crunching numbers, that has no real life value, but some people decided that it does and through some mechanisms that are out of reach from the poor guy, they are screwing him over.

Yes I know, I am a Soviet yada yada....

 

[BFG10K]

Actually, if you want to only game, why the hell are you buying a multipurpuse computer? There are consoles that exists only for gaming, you know.

Because a console can't run tens of thousands Win32 games like Windows can.

And for what? To gather a virtual wealth by crunching numbers, that has no real life value, but some people decided that it does and through some mechanisms that are out of reach from the poor guy, they are screwing him over.

The irony is every single "coin" measures its value in $USD. The only reason this ponzi scheme continues is because there are stupid people willing to pay real money for this fairy tale. Just like religion - once the collection plate dries up, it dies.

And if someone thinks the wealth gap is a problem now, imagine what happens if crypto actually catches on? How does a street beggar compete with a trustfund brat who has a mining rack of 3080s and has been hoarding coins since the scheme started?

Right now people without electricity and GPUs can still make money. How does one operate crypto without power and GPUs?

Crypto: "the solution to all the world's financial problems...as long as the real money keeps the power and GPUs flowing". Lulz.

 

[zir_blazer]

I am not talking about, boohoo, why you bad miner got the 3080 I wanted and you drove the prices up. They are drying up the whole market as a consequence and even a poor man's rx570 is out of reach, since they have gone up to 300 euros ffs. A card previously at 150.

So the miner's will to gather more wealth and his capacity to do so, drains the basic right of entertainment from the poor guy. And for what? To gather a virtual wealth by crunching numbers, that has no real life value, but some people decided that it does and through some mechanisms that are out of reach from the poor guy, they are screwing him over.

Yes I know, I am a Soviet yada yada....

Basic supply and demand. The reason why demand is so high is because at current Ethereum prices even a high end Video Card can pay itself in like 5 months, maybe even less, assuming that you don't have to build a rig from scratch. If you know about any other investment that has such a ridiculous ROI and a relatively low entry level, tell me about it. That is why they were dried up. At least it is a good reason, I still recall the WD plant flooding and Hynix plant fire that made HDs and RAM price skyrocket due to speculation on lower supply and scarcity.
Even if Ethereum prices were to crash back to 600 U$D like before the current boom, you still keep the Hardware, you just take more time to recoup the investment, and you don't have to do anything besides monitoring than the computers are working.


Oh, and about the "poor guy" thing, I'm going to tell you something: The very first Video Cards I owned, were a pair of Radeons 5770 which I purchased in 2010 specifically to mine Bitcoins, followed by a pair of Radeons 570 4G 3 months ago to mine Ethereum before the current boom because I had disposable money and wanted to do an investment (And I feel like an idiot when I learned that they were just one month away from obsolecence, should have purchased the much more expensive 8G versions), then a pair of Radeons 5600XT a month ago just the day before their price increased by 60% (5700XTs already dried up), also to mine Ethereum as replacement for the 4G cards, one which I'm now using to game myself and the other is in my sister computer. So all 6 Video Cards I had in my life were purchased specifically for crypto mining, with my wrongly purchased 570 4G replacing one of the 10 years old 5770 that I was STILL using for gaming. And you are complaining when you're sitting on a still decent GF970? LOL.
Before crypto, I always played with integrated graphics solutions (Back when they sucked hard in late 90's, where you could have a SiS that didn't supported Direct3D and thus couldn't play some games like Half Life) cause my mom didn't had money to spend on Hardware for gaming during late 90's an early 2000's. So in some way, seeing people complaining that Video Cards are too expensive for gamers is delicious. Do what I did when my mom couldn't afford them and I couldn't work for money myself, play at minimum graphics and expect low FPS because that is the only way I was going to play games at that moment. Or do something else, like raising yourself by the bootstraps to get more money and pay scalpers prices, because you are competing for your share of the pie in a market where the products are is in very high demand.
Gamers seems to have grown entitled, indeed. Since the day that that GPUs evolved into GPGPUs you were always destined to become second-class citizens. Or didn't you noticed nVidia even skipping an entire GPU generation (Volta) that ended up as pretty much high end datacenter products like Tesla only? A gamer can rarely use more than one GPU at the same time, and neither AMD nor nVidia are bothering with Crossfire and SLI anymore. So one gamer, one GPU. Compare that to anything that uses parallel compute that can scale with as many GPUs you can throw it. Is obvious which one is the more important customer.

The irony is every single "coin" measures its value in $USD. The only reason this ponzi scheme continues is because there are stupid people willing to pay real money for this fairy tale. Just like religion - once the collection plate dries up, it dies.

And if someone thinks the wealth gap is a problem now, imagine what happens if crypto actually catches on? How does a street beggar compete with a trustfund brat who has a mining rack of 3080s and has been hoarding coins since the scheme started?

It is as much of a ponzi scheme as the stock market, or whatever makes than a country's currency itself devalues vs other countries currencies. Is just that those achieved critical mass and are there from a long time ago, so people silently accept whatever results the mysterious "market forces" gets when they drive the price of stuff up or down, so no one even bothers to question them, as there is no point in do so anyways cause you still have to accept its rules whenever you like them or not. It is something called... FREE MARKET.
And I'm glad that people realize that they don't like it as much as they think they do when the FREE part goes and bites them in the butt. The poetic irony is that instead of complaining about basic things that ANY human needs like food, a roof over your head, basic utilities like electricity, water, wireless phone, Internet, and pharmaceuticals that you will need when you get ill, all of which can be freely price gouged cause you can't really have a modern quality of life without so you will be forced to pay for them one way or the other, you are all whinning because Video Cards are too expensive for average gamers, as if having a modern Video Card was a necessity. Video Cards prices and virtual currencies are precisely where the free market part is working totally as intended because you don't need either, and I'm fine with that.

 

[Shmee]

Hmm seems this thread has gone off topic a bit. We have users talking about free market politics vs intervention, and saying things that are factually incorrect because they don't understand them. Oh well.

 

[The Alias]

Hmm seems this thread has gone off topic a bit. We have users talking about free market politics vs intervention, and saying things that are factually incorrect because they don't understand them. Oh well.

I think it's mildly funny, to be honest. The guys here have such righteous fury against other people trying to invest and improve their financial standing in life. Well tell you guys what, I'm that guy you hate. I bought 24 rx 5700XTs in October along with the rigs I built with my own two hands with the hope that maybe I don't have to work until I'm 70. Quite honestly, I am going to take the money my rigs are making right now and expand again once prices come down again, because like you, I don't think it's smart to pay resale value and drastically reduce my purchasing power just for the sake of having them right now and I think the people that are paying resale for them aren't making smart financial decisions, to be honest. I think it's hypocritical that some middle class guys that are getting screwed out of their entertainment are advocating for another group of middle class guys to get screwed out of their financial investment for their entertainment. Something about that seems very wrong.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Hmm seems this thread has gone off topic a bit. We have users talking about free market politics vs intervention, and saying things that are factually incorrect because they don't understand them. Oh well.

I understand Nvidia doesn't owe you the right to do things that hurt them financially on products they might bring to market. Don't know why that's so controversial.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Tell me again, exactly HOW are they doing that?

And why are the GPU suppliers, which are greatly capacity-constrained, for a number of reasons, somehow, in your eyes, NOT responsible. Nope, it's "gotta be dem miners, suckin up all dem GPUs!".

Do you think that miners have a "GPU hotline", a "red phone" straight to AMD, and a "green phone" straight to Nvidia, call them up, "Yes, I'd like 100 GPUs please, extra on-the-double".

I mean, maybe? I know I don't have those numbers. I'm a miner, and I DON'T have any Ampere cards. I would be competing with bots and scalpers just the same as you, to get some of those cards.

Don't know how Nvidia does it but I hope they figure a way. This is getting real old every couple of years having gpus shoot up to hell in price because some stupid coin that does nothing useful for society is designed to screw the gpu market. Nvidia doesn't owe any miners a living at their own expense.

 

[The Alias]

Don't know how Nvidia does it but I hope they figure a way. This is getting real old every couple of years having gpus shoot up to hell in price because some stupid coin that does nothing useful for society is designed to screw the gpu market. Nvidia doesn't owe any miners a living at their own expense.

This one started with scalpers, though....

 

[psolord]

I think it's mildly funny, to be honest. The guys here have such righteous fury against other people trying to invest and improve their financial standing in life. Well tell you guys what, I'm that guy you hate. I bought 24 rx 5700XTs in October along with the rigs I built with my own two hands with the hope that maybe I don't have to work until I'm 70. Quite honestly, I am going to take the money my rigs are making right now and expand again once prices come down again, because like you, I don't think it's smart to pay resale value and drastically reduce my purchasing power just for the sake of having them right now and I think the people that are paying resale for them aren't making smart financial decisions, to be honest. I think it's hypocritical that some middle class guys that are getting screwed out of their entertainment are advocating for another group of middle class guys to get screwed out of their financial investment for their entertainment. Something about that seems very wrong.

The fact alone that you screwed 24 guys out of their entertainment, for your own benefit, speaks volumes I believe. If you and the likes of you ever wonder what's wrong with the world, look in the mirror.

Oh look, I am so poor that I could buy 24 5700XTs, while screwing everybody else that is trying to have some fun after work, so I can stop working, because who needs proper businesses when you can rest on your fat ass right? That's why you are all lazy bastards and that's why I hope this whole construct burns in a glorious ball of flame.

Seriously you and the other guy built your lego systems with your OWN TWO HANDS? Are you ok man? Do you need some water? Oh the effort, oh the straggle. But yes, since you put so much effort, fuck those 24 guys. That's who you are.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Are you serious right now? Do you people even game on PC?

I use a multipurpose computer for gaming because:

- I want standard keyboard and mouse support for all games
- I want the freedom to use whatever control method I want, steering wheels, hotas, a myriad brands of mice and keyboards
- I want the freedom to use whatever VR headset I facny
- I want the freedom to not be forced to pay subscriptions, for online gaming support
- I want the right to be able to preserve my childhood gaming memories through emulation and why not even have the chance to see these emulated games at a much better state, through better resolutions and filtering
- I want the freedom to select any or all games stores for my games
- I want the free games that are given permanently from all those game stores
- I want the option to play said games on GeForce Now when I am on a weaker computer
- I want to play my games at the resolution I want, at the refresh rate I want, at the aspect ratio I want
- I want to be able to mod my games to hell and back
- I want to play my games at the settings I choose to do so, according to how deep my pocket is
- Even if my pocket is not deep at all, I still want to play Godfall and The Medium on my 2500k and GTX 970. If I had a PS4, Godfall is out of the question (others will come too) and if I had an XBOX One, The Medium is out of the question too.
- I want the right to use whatever storage I want to store my games and not be dictated where I install current gen games vs last gen ones
- I want compatibility that goes decades back
- I want every single penny I spend, to be instantly shown on screen, without having to wait for patches with limited options too
- I want to have access to as many games as possible, because I can play Halo, Gears, Forza, Horizon Zero Dawn, Death Stranding, Detroit, Street Fighter, Fable, Hades, Quantum Break, Hellblade, Ori, Sea of Thieves, The Medium, Godfall, Star Citizen, MS Flight Sim, without having to own two consoles.
- I want the option to be able to upgrade, without having to throw away my previous system in its total. I mean why throw away my case, psu, controllers, storage and in some cases even the mobo, if I just can reuse them; Most of the times a single gpu upgrade is enough. A gpu upgrade that is hindered by stinking mining.
- I want the option to be able to play some games, even if I don't pay for them. Whether they be legally free or illegally. Yes, for some people that are having serious financial problems, I excuse the illegality of the matter. Gaming may not be bread, but it's still a necessity that allows you to vent.

So there you have it. For all the above, the most important part is a GPU, under the presumption that you are an ongoing PC gamer with the minimal hardware required. And for all that, the hindrance is mining up to a degree. I mean I believe Covid has made things worse than mining but still.

I am not talking about, boohoo, why you bad miner got the 3080 I wanted and you drove the prices up. They are drying up the whole market as a consequence and even a poor man's rx570 is out of reach, since they have gone up to 300 euros ffs. A card previously at 150.

So the miner's will to gather more wealth and his capacity to do so, drains the basic right of entertainment from the poor guy. And for what? To gather a virtual wealth by crunching numbers, that has no real life value, but some people decided that it does and through some mechanisms that are out of reach from the poor guy, they are screwing him over.

Yes I know, I am a Soviet yada yada....

Well, you want all that freedom to game, and all the other people want that freedom to buy GPUs to mine. They're free to make their choices, and you're free to make yours, which right now include buying console to game, or paying premium for a videocard.

Because a console can't run tens of thousands Win32 games like Windows can.


The irony is every single "coin" measures its value in $USD. The only reason this ponzi scheme continues is because there are stupid people willing to pay real money for this fairy tale. Just like religion - once the collection plate dries up, it dies.

And if someone thinks the wealth gap is a problem now, imagine what happens if crypto actually catches on? How does a street beggar compete with a trustfund brat who has a mining rack of 3080s and has been hoarding coins since the scheme started?

Right now people without electricity and GPUs can still make money. How does one operate crypto without power and GPUs?

Crypto: "the solution to all the world's financial problems...as long as the real money keeps the power and GPUs flowing". Lulz.

You seem to be vastly behind times. Without electricity the entire world grinds to a halt. Heck, you can't even harvest food without electricity because most harvesters now use GPS to sow and harvest produce. You can't even buy anything from the store without electricity because nobody uses cash anymore.

I understand Nvidia doesn't owe you the right to do things that hurt them financially on products they might bring to market. Don't know why that's so controversial.

And on the flip side, nVidia/AMD do not owe you the right to purchase cheap video cards.

 

[The Alias]

The fact alone that you screwed 24 guys out of their entertainment, for your own benefit, speaks volumes I believe. If you and the likes of you ever wonder what's wrong with the world, look in the mirror.

Oh look, I am so poor that I could buy 24 5700XTs, while screwing everybody else that is trying to have some fun after work, so I can stop working, because who needs proper businesses when you can rest on your fat ass right? That's why you are all lazy bastards and that's why I hope this whole construct burns in a glorious ball of flame.

Seriously you and the other guy built your lego systems with your OWN TWO HANDS? Are you ok man? Do you need some water? Oh the effort, oh the straggle. But yes, since you put so much effort, fuck those 24 guys. That's who you are.

If you look at the prices in early October, they were still at ~400. I screwed exactly 0 people over in my quest to rest on my fat butt instead of working 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. You spent all that time posting something factually incorrect lol.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I've been a very vocal Nvidia critic for some time but I would LOVE if they'd punt mining to their premium cards. It'd do wonders for the situation while in no way limiting miners. And as we're repeatedly told by miners, that's the free market b!+¢#.

OP, I hope you realize the reason they're looking at this is because they can't just magically supply all their markets with enough product to meet demand. If that was something they could fix easily they would. But likely they simply cannot get the output they would like even if they spent a bunch more.

It is as much of a ponzi scheme as the stock market, or whatever makes than a country's currency itself devalues vs other countries currencies. Is just that those achieved critical mass and are there from a long time ago, so people silently accept whatever results the mysterious "market forces" gets when they drive the price of stuff up or down, so no one even bothers to question them, as there is no point in do so anyways cause you still have to accept its rules whenever you like them or not. It is something called... FREE MARKET.
And I'm glad that people realize that they don't like it as much as they think they do when the FREE part goes and bites them in the butt. The poetic irony is that instead of complaining about basic things that ANY human needs like food, a roof over your head, basic utilities like electricity, water, wireless phone, Internet, and pharmaceuticals that you will need when you get ill, all of which can be freely price gouged cause you can't really have a modern quality of life without so you will be forced to pay for them one way or the other, you are all whinning because Video Cards are too expensive for average gamers, as if having a modern Video Card was a necessity. Video Cards prices and virtual currencies are precisely where the free market part is working totally as intended because you don't need either, and I'm fine with that.

Indeed, which is why its hilarious that anyone touted it as being better than those when its not in any way shape or form. It in no way has democratized financial institutions or altered income inequality (two things it was touted to supposedly miraculously resolve). If anything its made both of those things worse. Its just as rotten as those things, only it comes with an extra heaping of screwing up a market that people on here care about and racking up enormous energy expenditure for no actual benefit.

If you think cryptocurrency is going to fix that you're straight up delusional. Its utterly baffling that you think people complaining about crypto being an almost hyper focused version of that behavior means they're totally fine with it is, well just silly. Yet for some reason that's constantly the excuse given by crypto 49ers jockeying for their bit of gold.

Yay, yet another "durr its the free market stupid!" nonsensical argument (but hey at least you steered clear of comparing it to genocide and human rights violations while also claiming that its not something to be concerned with...so there's that at least). Which it is hilarious that you're touting that immediately after condemning the supposed free market (do you listen to yourself?). Apparently economics is the new car analogy for "how stupid can we be" nonsensical arguments in computing.

Whinning? Are you trying to call people horses? Because it sure seems like its you cryptofanatics that are constantly whining while you're supposedly winning (aka whinning?).

Oh and I hope you realize that VirtualLarry, the OP, is basically living off food stamps in a very poor area, who regularly remarks about his incredibly poor health and those issues that are rampant in the area he resides. Its a wonder he's not a multi-billionaire from all the crypto he's mined! Honestly in a sad turn of things it seems like he might have started to have his literal livelihood based off the pittance he gets from crypto mining.

Well, you want all that freedom to game, and all the other people want that freedom to buy GPUs to mine. They're free to make their choices, and you're free to make yours, which right now include buying console to game, or paying premium for a videocard.



You seem to be vastly behind times. Without electricity the entire world grinds to a halt. Heck, you can't even harvest food without electricity because most harvesters now use GPS to sow and harvest produce. You can't even buy anything from the store without electricity because nobody uses cash anymore.


And on the flip side, nVidia/AMD do not owe you the right to purchase cheap video cards.

And your point being what exactly? By that logic they can buy older video cards that aren't as good for mining now. Plus, I take it you missed how there's also a dearth of consoles?

Ok, and crypto mining being a massive burden on the power grid is a good thing for that? Not sure what point you're trying to make. I can still pay cash at tons of places. Heck you could've just said "without electricity most people would lose easy access to produce and other that needs to be transported and kept cool so it doesn't spoil".

You're right, but nor do they owe crypto miners cheap stuff. Its odd that crypto miners literally started this thread whining about them making mining a premium feature available on premium pro equipment, but now its the crypto miners going "stop your whining!"

Lastly, for the "Free Market b!+¢# crowd, Nvidia is just looking at their markets and going "crypto is very elastic demand, built off of things we can't control at all, while gaming is also an elastic but less so market that is larger and more valuable to us while also being an area that literally built our company and is something we have a hand in controlling, hmm, maybe we should change things so the one crowd can still do it just has to pay a premium, while we try to keep our bread and butter market happy?"

Which perhaps that's not what Nvidia's plan is and they're looking to just lock out mining. We'll see. Personally I say punt it to Tesla even and then setup a buyback system where miners can sell their now pointless hardware back to Nvidia, where they then use those boxes for their own use or loan or donate them to various projects; depending on how quickly the market changes they might even be able to just turn around and sell them, or offer it as an upgrade situation where companies on even older hardware could get a newer box for a good deal while sticking to Nvidia.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

^^^^sort of liked school VHS rentals, if you lost or broke a VHS rental tape the cost to replace was $80 to $250ish, if you wanted to buy for personal use cost was $20 to $50ish
One license was for rental which generated revenue for the owner the other was for personal non revenue generating use.

I can easily see a model for this with video cards. Admittedly duplication isn’t really part limited and nvidia making a separate mining line would ultimately impact the cost of consumer cards but regardless the extra revenue made from mining card could pay for more production.

 

[zir_blazer]

Indeed, which is why its hilarious that anyone touted it as being better than those when its not in any way shape or form. It in no way has democratized financial institutions or altered income inequality (two things it was touted to supposedly miraculously resolve). If anything its made both of those things worse. Its just as rotten as those things, only it comes with an extra heaping of screwing up a market that people on here care about and racking up enormous energy expenditure for no actual benefit.

If you think cryptocurrency is going to fix that you're straight up delusional. Its utterly baffling that you think people complaining about crypto being an almost hyper focused version of that behavior means they're totally fine with it is, well just silly. Yet for some reason that's constantly the excuse given by crypto 49ers jockeying for their bit of gold.

I never believed that cryptocurrencies would solve a thing. But they accoplished my dream, which was to use spare compute to do something like Seti@Home but actually getting paid for doing so. Sadly, the compute power is wasted because you are just the logkeeper of a self-serving blockchain. But I don't care, cause the part that matters to me is that selling compute generates passive income. Just like if you were a cloud service provider of sorts.

Yay, yet another "durr its the free market stupid!" nonsensical argument (but hey at least you steered clear of comparing it to genocide and human rights violations while also claiming that its not something to be concerned with...so there's that at least). Which it is hilarious that you're touting that immediately after condemning the supposed free market (do you listen to yourself?). Apparently economics is the new car analogy for "how stupid can we be" nonsensical arguments in computing.

Oh, I do listen to myself, but maybe you failed a bit at reading comprehension. I can help you with that.

I made clear that I'm NOT in favour of a completely unregulated free market for anything that is basic for living because it will be absolutely abused in the same way that is happening right now with Video Cards during a mining boom. But I don't care about what happens with Video Cards or any other thing that is not necessary to live. You will not die if you wait until the mining boom fades away, stock stabilizes, and prices become more sane. But you will die of starvation if you can't afford food anymore because the farmers decided to form a cartel, jack up prices that you can't pay, and you don't own any land where to grown produce yourself, making that your lifeline is bound to "market conditions".
The punch line is that I'm sure that there are a lot of free market advocates that don't care about the former but cry about the latter, as if society as a whole cared that you can't purchase a Video Card FOR PLAYING GAMES because of those pesky miners.

Lastly, for the "Free Market b!+¢# crowd, Nvidia is just looking at their markets and going "crypto is very elastic demand, built off of things we can't control at all, while gaming is also an elastic but less so market that is larger and more valuable to us while also being an area that literally built our company and is something we have a hand in controlling, hmm, maybe we should change things so the one crowd can still do it just has to pay a premium, while we try to keep our bread and butter market happy?"

I have read enough about history to know how that will end. I suggest you googling around about how IBM created the PC platform in 1981 up to the PS/2 line when it tried to take back control of the PC platform by force, then got stomped by clone makers until it became irrelevant in the PC market. The only way for it to work would be if nVidia and AMD did it at the same time, and you can still bet that there will be a backlash.

 

[coercitiv]

The only way for it to work would be if nVidia and AMD did it at the same time, and you can still bet that there will be a backlash.

There is no way for it to work, people who cheer about this alleged decision without caring for the implications are also apparently missing key information about what mining is: running a mathematical algorithm which can be unilaterally changed by the coin issuing "authority" at any point in time.

Today it runs on GPUs... tomorrow it may be changed to something which drastically favors CPUs and/or large amounts of RAM. See where this is going? ( Oh Sh!t indeed... )