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Question Jen Sung makes questionable decision? [RUMOR] NVidia tries to disable GPU mining?

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thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
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Sounds a lot like ... Backblaze! They bought external HDDs en-mass and "shucked" them, and when the HDD companies refused to sell them any more in bulk (so I read), they paid individual purchasers a "bounty" to buy them and ship them to Backblaze.

Yet, in most online discussions, Backblaze is seen as the challenger, and the old, stodgy HDD mfgs as the "bad guys". I wonder why mining is different?
"En-masse" was around 2,000 HDDs, with a lot of manual effort, lasting roughly 4 months, and they definitely got flak from a number of communities, even if on their own site they are non-apologetic about it. Mostly because they see the problem as getting around a natural disaster (Thailand flooding). In my opinion, they deserve flak for it, but that happening isn't even close to hundreds of thousands of GPUs being bought out, completely crippling the market for months on end to consume electricity at the rate of a small country, and all driven not by a natural disaster, but simply the sake of money-hunting.

Like I mentioned, I definitely think Backblaze deserved flak for what they pulled early in their life. But there is magnitudes of difference here. If anyone thinks what Backblaze did was selfish and made them the bad guys, then they should be absolutely livid at miners. If they don't think this mining situation is bad, then there's not much to be said for Backblaze.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,651
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I wouldn't accuse them of conscious bias in subsequent CPU reviews but I certainly don't trust their word when it comes to any purchasing decisions that involve products that have had sponsored videos.
I don't really watch LTT videos outside of the occasional one that might pop up if they covered a product I'm researching, but I think the fact that they're willing to release a video that goes after Nvidia or Intel at all gives them a lot more credibility in my opinion. If he was just in it for the clickbait money and shilling to companies he could have just made a video praising Nvidia for taking this action to insert-Nvidia-talking-point here.

Instead it sounds like he gave his opinion that this isn't a move that he believes will benefit gamers, which if anything possibly limits the likelihood of getting any kind of sweet sponsored deal from Nvidia in the near future. As long as he's upfront about sponsored content I don't really have a problem with it. I'm free to ignore it and I'm not going to begrudge anyone from making a living that way.

Maybe I think it's a little scummy, but the fact of the matter is that at least I'm aware of it. The industry is simply too big for companies not to try to spend marketing dollars to drive sales and in the past there were far, far more underhanded ways that the marketing was done, which weren't disclosed to the public. If Linus wants to put out a glib video for some product for marketing dollars, I'm far happier knowing those were dollars that weren't put to far more malicious uses.
 

guidryp

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2006
1,153
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I don't really watch LTT videos outside of the occasional one that might pop up if they covered a product I'm researching, but I think the fact that they're willing to release a video that goes after Nvidia or Intel at all gives them a lot more credibility in my opinion. If he was just in it for the clickbait money and shilling to companies he could have just made a video praising Nvidia for taking this action to insert-Nvidia-talking-point here.
He get's no credibility in my eyes. He's stirring controversy because that gets him more clicks. He basically goes into concern troll mode the moment anything that might be controversial pops up, because he has a click based empire.

When I see his thumbnails, it like the Pewdiepie formula applied to tech. Closeups of Linus making goofy faces usually with some neon colors in the background.

It's sad that this is the winning formula on YT.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,651
2,412
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Welcome to YT, not sure what anyone expected.

The only channels I watch videos for regularly are GN and HUB since they both do pretty in-depth / thorough reviews. They don't really do all the flashy attention grabbing stuff, but that's probably why neither channel is as big as LTT.
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
416
156
116
I don't really watch LTT videos outside of the occasional one that might pop up if they covered a product I'm researching, but I think the fact that they're willing to release a video that goes after Nvidia or Intel at all gives them a lot more credibility in my opinion. If he was just in it for the clickbait money and shilling to companies he could have just made a video praising Nvidia for taking this action to insert-Nvidia-talking-point here.

Instead it sounds like he gave his opinion that this isn't a move that he believes will benefit gamers, which if anything possibly limits the likelihood of getting any kind of sweet sponsored deal from Nvidia in the near future. As long as he's upfront about sponsored content I don't really have a problem with it. I'm free to ignore it and I'm not going to begrudge anyone from making a living that way.

Maybe I think it's a little scummy, but the fact of the matter is that at least I'm aware of it. The industry is simply too big for companies not to try to spend marketing dollars to drive sales and in the past there were far, far more underhanded ways that the marketing was done, which weren't disclosed to the public. If Linus wants to put out a glib video for some product for marketing dollars, I'm far happier knowing those were dollars that weren't put to far more malicious uses.
I'd rather he pick a side. Be Marques Brownlee or be Steve from GN, don't flip flop depending on what you feel will get more clicks on a given day.

Sponsored videos get clicks from having access to pre-release or expensive equipment. Hot take videos following the winds of public opinion get clicks for standing up for the little guy. It's a smart business model but it's a bit annoying to me as someone who watches and enjoys the majority of their content.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
50,784
6,262
126
See second video in OP! Nvidia to nerf ALL new Ampere cards going forward. As suspected, the 3060 was just the trial run.
 

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,792
554
126
Nvidia is free to decide what runs on their cards or not. They design and sell cards for specific purposes. Those purposes (and limitations) will be made clear to you when you buy the card. You are free to say no if the card doesnt meet your needs. Simple as that.
 

KompuKare

Senior member
Jul 28, 2009
653
183
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See second video in OP! Nvidia to nerf ALL new Ampere cards going forward. As suspected, the 3060 was just the trial run.
Going forward is okay, although there is no way I'm going to take Nvidia's PR spin at face value.
I think this has more to do Nvidia getting a bigger piece of the crypto pie, and trying to prevent a huge flood of used cars after the next crypto crash than it does with trying to help gamers.
Not that Nvidia doesn't want to help gamers to buy their gaming card since miners are not repeat purchasers whereas gamers are and Nvidia has spent big over the years to garner the gamer mindshare.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,741
1,145
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I think this has more to do Nvidia getting a bigger piece of the crypto pie, and trying to prevent a huge flood of used cars after the next crypto crash than it does with trying to help gamers.
And they probably want to take advantage of not being at TSMC and not being supply constrained by them, assuming that they actually did produce a lot of GPUs, they just went all to miners (financial numbers seem to support this fact).

While AMD is competitive, they simply lack supply. AMD is out of supply regardless of mining or not. If NV could provide, they could even increase their marketshare regardless if AMD is competitive performance wise. AMD can't fight on price as they are supply constrained.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,328
3,209
136
Wow, this is great; maybe I'll be able to buy a new video card this year. I have the Mrs. approval ;)
 

dr1337

Member
May 25, 2020
124
181
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See second video in OP! Nvidia to nerf ALL new Ampere cards going forward. As suspected, the 3060 was just the trial run.
This sounds like a slippery slope for nvidia. Anyone who has to RMA any current rtx3000 cards won't be receiving a functionally comparable model as a replacement. Not like theres tons of people out there who are going to need to do an RMA but still, they're removing functionality from already existing products if so.
whoops misread, still sorta applies. I wonder if they're going to just axe the OG 3090/3080/3070/3060ti from here on out. Would be convenient for their increased vram cards that are in the works too

I still can't believe that nvidia has managed to make gamers (of all people) cheer on DRM.
 

guidryp

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2006
1,153
1,222
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You know, even if you dealt with miners, you'd still have to deal with resellers. Who were responsible for the 30xx and 60xx series prices in the first place.
You know, not solving everything simultaneously, is not a reason to give up on any solutions.

3060 with lower die size, means a lot more good dies per/wafer, and a lot more volume, and thus more chance that the supply could get by the scalpers.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
50,784
6,262
126

Brian is WRONG. This has NOTHING to do with gamers.

It's all about BIG MONEY, seeing the possibility of Ampere specifically enabling UPWARDS ECONOMIC MOBILITY for any random Joe that can afford a few dozen video cards.

They don't approve, and forced Nvidia to "do something" about it.

If there's one thing that THE RICH don't want, is MORE rich people.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,262
5,396
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Nvidia is on the record saying gamers got 90%+ of the cards anyway. ($100-300 million sales for mining out of $2495 million total consumer sales) It's literally the same story as the last time: they keep saying strong demand is from gamers only, then when mining boom stops and overall demand plummets... they spin around really fast and talk about anything else but true mining sales estimates.

Nvidia CFO Collete Kress explained that the company predicts that, by its best estimates, $100 to $300 million of its Q4 revenue came from sales to cryptominers, but conceded that it couldn't accurately predict the impact due to sales through AIBs and distributors
History won't be kind on this.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,262
5,396
136
Random thought from a miner on a 5600xt acquisition in Dec 2020:
I still wonder why Newegg didn’t have a limit on this listing, I just bought all 8 at once.
I mean, what was Newegg going to do, call him after a week to check whether he's gaming on all 8 cards? Let the market regulate itself. /s
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
9,197
2,502
136

Brian is WRONG. This has NOTHING to do with gamers.

It's all about BIG MONEY, seeing the possibility of Ampere specifically enabling UPWARDS ECONOMIC MOBILITY for any random Joe that can afford a few dozen video cards.

They don't approve, and forced Nvidia to "do something" about it.

If there's one thing that THE RICH don't want, is MORE rich people.
Nice conspiracy theory you've got there.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,522
426
126
Limit to one per credit card or email address or physical address
The funny thing is we already knew they can do just that. When we bought our 2, 1080Ti's back at the end of 2017, myself and the wife each ordered on our own accounts because we were building our own rigs. Both orders got flagged as trying to get around 1 per customer because they were both coming to the same physical address. I think we got around it by just sending it to her Mom's address, but all the same, the point is that they absolutely have that ability, can enforce it, and have enforced it in the past. When it suits them. :)
 
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guidryp

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2006
1,153
1,222
136
It's all about BIG MONEY, seeing the possibility of Ampere specifically enabling UPWARDS ECONOMIC MOBILITY for any random Joe that can afford a few dozen video cards.

They don't approve, and forced Nvidia to "do something" about it.

If there's one thing that THE RICH don't want, is MORE rich people.
o_O

To be kind. Let's just say, that doesn't make any sense at all.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,651
2,412
136
o_O

To be kind. Let's just say, that doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah it's a bit out there. The easier explanation is that Nvidia wants to suck as much money out of the market as possible and think that miners will pay more (they will) and don't want to have to deal with a steeply discounted pile of used Ampere cards hitting the market sometime in the future which will eat into Nvidia's sales or force them to cut prices to move new cards.

No one is worried about Joe Schmoe earning some extra beer money by mining on his GPU when he isn't gaming. It takes a fairly large capital investment to even set up a sizeable mining operation, so it's hardly a way for the masses to get rich.
 
Feb 4, 2009
29,142
9,716
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The funny thing is we already knew they can do just that. When we bought our 2, 1080Ti's back at the end of 2017, myself and the wife each ordered on our own accounts because we were building our own rigs. Both orders got flagged as trying to get around 1 per customer because they were both coming to the same physical address. I think we got around it by just sending it to her Mom's address, but all the same, the point is that they absolutely have that ability, can enforce it, and have enforced it in the past. When it suits them. :)
good now do that eight times to get the amount of cards the poster was able to get in one transaction.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,651
2,412
136
Looks like the driver changes Nvidia tried to do to limit mining were kind of pointless. Here's a bit from the Tom's Hardware review of the 3060:

The good news is that DaggerHashimoto, aka Ethash, which is the algorithm used by Ethereum, was definitely a lot lower than expected. It would start at 45-50MH/s and quickly drop to about half that speed. This happened with every piece of miner software we tried: Excavator, NBMiner, PhoenixMiner, and T-Rex. Of course, that doesn't cover every possible miner, but it's a fair start.

The bad news is that there are a lot of other mining algorithms, and in some of these — like Octopus — the RTX 3060 is still reasonably profitable. With the recent drop in Ethereum pricing, and the increased difficulty, at 45-50MH/s the RTX 3060 would have netted around $5.50 per day. In Octopus, it can still do around $4 per day, which means it could hit the break-even point in just 82 days at current rates.
There's just too many different currencies out there for them to possibly get everything, never mind that it's all for nothing just as soon as anyone is able to get around the driver limitations.
 
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