It’s official, Donald Trump wants to finish off the Republican Party for good in 2024

[rommelrommel]

How so?

If gun ownership causes a rise in non-firearm suicides and homicides it seems a stretch to say the presence of the gun is the cause, no?

 

[Captante]

edit2: Heres some statistics for you: What percentage of American gun owners are injured/killed with their own guns? - Quora

What about as opposed to gun owners that actually use their guns to shoot a criminal?

The point of comments to the above effect is usually that the chances of you being shot with your own gun are actually higher than of using it for its intended purpose.

 

[fskimospy]

If gun ownership causes a rise in non-firearm suicides and homicides it seems a stretch to say the presence of the gun is the cause, no?

I’m not aware of any evidence that’s the case though? It is ALL CAUSE homicide and suicide, which includes guns.

 

[Captante]

If gun ownership causes a rise in non-firearm suicides and homicides it seems a stretch to say the presence of the gun is the cause, no?

You could also make the argument that paranoid and unstable people are more likely to want to own a gun "for protection" in the first place.

 

[fskimospy]

What about as opposed to gun owners that actually use their guns to shoot a criminal?

The point of comments to the above effect is usually that the chances of you being shot with your own gun are actually higher than of using it for its intended purpose.

The real question is ‘does owning a gun make you more safe or less safe?’ The answer is ‘less safe’ so buying one for protection is dumb.

 

[blackangst1]

You could also make the argument that paranoid and unstable people are more likely to want to own a gun "for protection" in the first place.

Uh...son I am disappoint. @Captante I like you. But....this is a terrible statement. Any supporting evidence? This sounds like some crazy leftist shit.

 

[Captante]

I've had guns pointed at me "in anger" twice in my life... once by the cops when my buddies and I were mistaken for some guys who robbed a gas station @ 3am and once by a 10 year-old kid over a $10 bag of weed.

Point is that aside from YMCA riflery classes way back in the day I'm NEVER around people with guns for ANY reason making getting shot tough to do!

 

[blackangst1]

I've had guns pointed at me "in anger" twice in my life... once by the cops when my buddies and I were mistaken for some guys who robbed a gas station @ 3am and once by a 10 year-old kid over a $10 bag of weed.

Point is that aside from YMCA riflery classes way back in the day I'm NEVER around people with guns for ANY reason making getting shot tough to do!

And here I was thinking it would be cool to grab a drink or cup of coffee with you. Oh well, no worries.

 

[blackangst1]

Again, this is not about firearm homicide but all causes homicide. Yes, owning deadly weapons makes it more likely for you to die. That’s the point.

To me this finding is very relevant because people claim to want a gun for safety reasons. Learning that owning a gun makes you less safe should make people stop buying them. The main issue is people don’t think about this rationally.

Thats...not rational.

 

[Captante]

Uh...son I am disappoint. @Captante I like you. But....thisis is a terrible statement. Any supporting evidence? This sounds like some crazy leftist shit.

So.... you want supporting evidence that I "could make an argument" ?

Are you saying that NON-paranoid people are as likely to be worried that they'll need a gun as the paranoid ones are?

This is another case of "obviously" lol.... just like it's pretty safe to assume that nearly ALL mass-shooters are mentally ill.

 

[blackangst1]

What about as opposed to gun owners that actually use their guns to shoot a criminal?

The point of comments to the above effect is usually that the chances of you being shot with your own gun are actually higher than of using it for its intended purpose.

Just like driving or riding in a car makes you more likely to die in vehicular homicide. And flying makes it more probable youll die in a plane crash. As I said before, we all take risks. I dont make decisions based on fear.

 

[Captante]

Thats...not rational.

That depends.

Buying a gun to make yourself "safer" from being shot isn't "rational" its ignorant.

OTOH buying a gun because you enjoy the sport of shooting or you live where there's potentially dangerous big game is completely rational.

 

[fskimospy]

Thats...not rational.

Ok then please explain.

 

[rommelrommel]

You could also make the argument that paranoid and unstable people are more likely to want to own a gun "for protection" in the first place.

I would suggest first that there is a substantial cohort of gun owners living unusually high risk lifestyles in the USA.

 

[fskimospy]

Just like driving or riding in a car makes you more likely to die in vehicular homicide. And flying makes it more probable youll die in a plane crash. As I said before, we all take risks. I dont make decisions based on fear.

You have already been corrected on this. We are not saying owning a gun makes you more likely to die from a gun homicide, although this is true, we are saying it makes it more likely for you to die of homicide of ANY cause.

Owning something for safety that makes you more likely to die is irrational. Agree?

 

[nakedfrog]

Uh...son I am disappoint. @Captante I like you. But....this is a terrible statement. Any supporting evidence? This sounds like some crazy leftist shit.

No, it doesn't sound like "crazy leftist shit" to consider that a mentally unstable person who is paranoid could be more likely to buy a gun to protect them from the people they believe are out to get them. It's interesting that you've reacted this way to it.

 

[blackangst1]

You have already been corrected on this. We are not saying owning a gun makes you more likely to die from a gun homicide, although this is true, we are saying it makes it more likely for you to die of homicide of ANY cause.

Owning something for safety that makes you more likely to die is irrational. Agree?

People own guns for than just safety. We're in a circular argument here. We disagree. Thats fine.

 

[Pens1566]

No, it doesn't sound like "crazy leftist shit" to consider that a mentally unstable person who is paranoid could be more likely to buy a gun to protect them from the people they believe are out to get them. It's interesting that you've reacted this way to it.

... and then carry it into walmart on their back because that's where all of "them" are.

 

[nakedfrog]

Just like driving or riding in a car makes you more likely to die in vehicular homicide. And flying makes it more probable youll die in a plane crash. As I said before, we all take risks. I dont make decisions based on fear.

Yes, you do. You absolutely do.

 

[blackangst1]

No, it doesn't sound like "crazy leftist shit" to consider that a mentally unstable person who is paranoid could be more likely to buy a gun to protect them from the people they believe are out to get them. It's interesting that you've reacted this way to it.

If a person is determined mentally unstable, and diagnosed as paranoid, wouldnt pass a background check.

 

[blackangst1]

I would suggest first that there is a substantial cohort of gun owners living unusually high risk lifestyles in the USA.

WOW.

 

[Captante]

I would suggest first that there is a substantial cohort of gun owners living unusually high risk lifestyles in the USA.

It COULD be both!

And here I was thinking it would be cool to grab a drink or cup of coffee with you.

As I've stated previously I base my opinion of other members here on the AGGREGATE of the stuff they post and thus I'd still buy you a beer.

I hang out with people I don't agree with on everything all the time AND we get along just fine.... seems like a freaking lost art these days!

 

[Pens1566]

If a person is determined mentally unstable, and diagnosed as paranoid, wouldnt pass a background check.

As of right now, NICS wouldn't catch that.

 

[nakedfrog]

If a person is determined mentally unstable, and diagnosed as paranoid, wouldnt pass a background check.

Well, maybe, anyway, sometimes. Possibly.
And of course, that ignores people who haven't been diagnosed.
And this is you sidestepping your extreme reaction ("crazy leftist shit") to a reasonable statement.

 

[blackangst1]

It COULD be both!




As I've stated previously I base my opinion of other members here on the AGGREGATE of the stuff they post and thus I'd still buy you a beer.

I hang out with people I don't agree with on everything all the time AND we get along just fine.... seems like a freaking lost art these days!

Well youre right about that