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guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,925
3,866
136
If gun ownership causes a rise in non-firearm suicides and homicides it seems a stretch to say the presence of the gun is the cause, no?
I haven't seen that study, but the ones I have seen, indicate that owning a gun drastically increases death by suicide, and the method is suicide by gun:

"The researchers found that people who owned handguns had rates of suicide that were nearly four times higher than people living in the same neighborhood who did not own handguns. The elevated risk was driven by higher rates of suicide by firearm. "

I don't think anyone needs to explain the logic here.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,569
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Nope. Just like I dont think the sole reason to buy a car is to commute to work is irrational.
So to be clear, you are saying that spending money on something that makes you less safe for the sole purpose of improving your safety is rational?

I know you don’t actually believe this, I think you can see I’m painting you into a corner and don’t want to give me any more rope to hang you with.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,453
1,785
126
dont buy into the red herring. Automobiles are not guns, and it’s simply a diversion. Guess what, people like blankangst don’t care about deaths in either case, as long as his feels are caressed.
Ive made myself VERY clear on my position of gun ownership and training. And its not a diversion. Its statistical numbers.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
36,307
16,010
146
I just found that particular point interesting.... and all the effort I put out was highlighting text and right-clicking "search Google" so why not?

Having said that, comparing deaths from transportation accidents to deaths from gun-shot wounds would be silly.
It is the most common diversion tactic. People aren’t buying cars for self defense, and cars aren’t marketed as self defense weapons. It’s just feels all the way down with a side order of poor logic.

One is designed to end life, and it’s great at it.

the other is designed for transport, and it’s great at it.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,453
1,785
126
I just found that particular point interesting.... and all the effort I put out was highlighting text and right-clicking "search Google" so why not?

Having said that, comparing deaths from transportation accidents to deaths from gun-shot wounds would be silly. (and pointless)
Sorry, but a death is a death. Im no more emotional about a gun death on the news as I am a wrong way driver death (which happens allot here in Phoenix). An unnecessary death is a death.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
28,065
8,894
136
Having a loaded .38 in the desk drawer DOES make offing oneself quick and convenient!

;)

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,453
1,785
126
It is the most common diversion tactic. People aren’t buying cars for self defense, and cars aren’t marketed as self defense weapons. It’s just feels all the way down with a side order of poor logic.
And people dont just buy guns for self protection. Just like some people dont buy cars just to commute.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,569
37,547
136
It is the most common diversion tactic. People aren’t buying cars for self defense, and cars aren’t marketed as self defense weapons. It’s just feels all the way down with a side order of poor logic
The analogy is useful, just not in the way that pro gun people think. We accept the danger from cars because they provide us with significant utility.

If someone wants to make the same argument for guns I’m fine with that. What utility do they provide that makes all the death worth it? I would love to know.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,453
1,785
126
So to be clear, you are saying that spending money on something that makes you less safe for the sole purpose of improving your safety is rational?

I know you don’t actually believe this, I think you can see I’m painting you into a corner and don’t want to give me any more rope to hang you with.
/sigh
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
55,289
8,099
126
Again, WRT to handguns or rifles, I dont think ANY gun control laws should exist.
Yes, you have a number of opinions that I think are not well-formed, but that's neither here nor there, again, I'm only pointing out your extreme reaction to a reasonable statement.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,453
1,785
126
Sorry guys my Seahawks are on and its time to leave. Ive made my position VERY clear. No need to continue talking about it. Love it or hate it, agree or disagree, IDC. It is what it is. Later.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,453
1,785
126
Yes, you have a number of opinions that I think are not well-formed, but that's neither here nor there, again, I'm only pointing out your extreme reaction to a reasonable statement.
Just like assholes, we all have opinions. And we dont think ours stink.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
36,307
16,010
146
Sorry guys my Seahawks are on and its time to leave. Ive made my position VERY clear. No need to continue talking about it. Love it or hate it, agree or disagree, IDC. It is what it is. Later.
oh yea, your position is feels, all the way down.

kudos tho, u managed to debate with almost no logical fallacies this time. That’s very progressive of you.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
55,289
8,099
126
Just like assholes, we all have opinions. And we dont think ours stink.
Some opinions are more well-formed than others. Some people are capable of altering their opinions when new information is provided to them that affects the formation of their opinion.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
28,065
8,894
136
An unnecessary death is a death.
If you want to compare a "wrong-way driver" or something like a DUI-related death to anything to do with guns the only even remotely valid point would be to do so with accidental gun-shot deaths.

Normal use of cars and airplanes gets you from point A to point B unless something goes terribly wrong not in the ICU or 6 feet under while death is one of the primary INTENDED use for most guns.

That's a very poor analogy comparing traffic death from misadventure to people being intentionally killed.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
28,065
8,894
136
What a waste of several pages.
That’s blackangst for ya. Just a peek into what qualifies as bigly thinking in Amurica.


So..... NEXT TIME you see one of these kind of threads from the OP don't even dignify it with a response just let it drop into oblivion where it belongs?

;)

Somewhat obviously if the OP doesn't give a rats patoot about his own thread we shouldn't either.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,569
37,547
136
If you want to compare a "wrong-way driver" or something like a DUI-related death to anything to do with guns the only even remotely valid point would be to do so with accidental gun-shot deaths.

Normal use of cars and airplanes gets you from point A to point B unless something goes terribly wrong not in the ICU or 6 feet under while death is one of the primary INTENDED use for most guns.

That's a very poor analogy comparing traffic death from misadventure to people being intentionally killed.
All I would like is for someone to help me fill this out:
Cars:
Person A: cars kill a lot of people every year and that is bad.

Person B: that’s true, but I think it’s worth it because cars also allow people and goods to move around quickly.

Guns:
Person A: guns kill a lot of people every year and that is bad.

Person B: that’s true, but I think it’s worth it because guns also…[YOUR ENTRY HERE]

So far I’ve seen ‘guns are fun’. Anything else?
 
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