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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,569
37,547
136
If gun ownership causes a rise in non-firearm suicides and homicides it seems a stretch to say the presence of the gun is the cause, no?
I’m not aware of any evidence that’s the case though? It is ALL CAUSE homicide and suicide, which includes guns.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
28,067
8,896
136
If gun ownership causes a rise in non-firearm suicides and homicides it seems a stretch to say the presence of the gun is the cause, no?
You could also make the argument that paranoid and unstable people are more likely to want to own a gun "for protection" in the first place.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,569
37,547
136
What about as opposed to gun owners that actually use their guns to shoot a criminal?

The point of comments to the above effect is usually that the chances of you being shot with your own gun are actually higher than of using it for its intended purpose.
The real question is ‘does owning a gun make you more safe or less safe?’ The answer is ‘less safe’ so buying one for protection is dumb.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,455
1,785
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You could also make the argument that paranoid and unstable people are more likely to want to own a gun "for protection" in the first place.
Uh...son I am disappoint. @Captante I like you. But....this is a terrible statement. Any supporting evidence? This sounds like some crazy leftist shit.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
28,067
8,896
136
I've had guns pointed at me "in anger" twice in my life... once by the cops when my buddies and I were mistaken for some guys who robbed a gas station @ 3am and once by a 10 year-old kid over a $10 bag of weed.

Point is that aside from YMCA riflery classes way back in the day I'm NEVER around people with guns for ANY reason making getting shot tough to do!

;)
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,455
1,785
126
I've had guns pointed at me "in anger" twice in my life... once by the cops when my buddies and I were mistaken for some guys who robbed a gas station @ 3am and once by a 10 year-old kid over a $10 bag of weed.

Point is that aside from YMCA riflery classes way back in the day I'm NEVER around people with guns for ANY reason making getting shot tough to do!

;)
And here I was thinking it would be cool to grab a drink or cup of coffee with you. Oh well, no worries.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,455
1,785
126
Again, this is not about firearm homicide but all causes homicide. Yes, owning deadly weapons makes it more likely for you to die. That’s the point.

To me this finding is very relevant because people claim to want a gun for safety reasons. Learning that owning a gun makes you less safe should make people stop buying them. The main issue is people don’t think about this rationally.
Thats...not rational.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
28,067
8,896
136
Uh...son I am disappoint. @Captante I like you. But....thisis is a terrible statement. Any supporting evidence? This sounds like some crazy leftist shit.
So.... you want supporting evidence that I "could make an argument" ? :p

Are you saying that NON-paranoid people are as likely to be worried that they'll need a gun as the paranoid ones are?

This is another case of "obviously" lol.... just like it's pretty safe to assume that nearly ALL mass-shooters are mentally ill.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,455
1,785
126
What about as opposed to gun owners that actually use their guns to shoot a criminal?

The point of comments to the above effect is usually that the chances of you being shot with your own gun are actually higher than of using it for its intended purpose.
Just like driving or riding in a car makes you more likely to die in vehicular homicide. And flying makes it more probable youll die in a plane crash. As I said before, we all take risks. I dont make decisions based on fear.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
28,067
8,896
136
Thats...not rational.
That depends.

Buying a gun to make yourself "safer" from being shot isn't "rational" its ignorant.

OTOH buying a gun because you enjoy the sport of shooting or you live where there's potentially dangerous big game is completely rational.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
3,997
2,387
146
You could also make the argument that paranoid and unstable people are more likely to want to own a gun "for protection" in the first place.
I would suggest first that there is a substantial cohort of gun owners living unusually high risk lifestyles in the USA.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,569
37,547
136
Just like driving or riding in a car makes you more likely to die in vehicular homicide. And flying makes it more probable youll die in a plane crash. As I said before, we all take risks. I dont make decisions based on fear.
You have already been corrected on this. We are not saying owning a gun makes you more likely to die from a gun homicide, although this is true, we are saying it makes it more likely for you to die of homicide of ANY cause.

Owning something for safety that makes you more likely to die is irrational. Agree?
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
55,289
8,100
126
Uh...son I am disappoint. @Captante I like you. But....this is a terrible statement. Any supporting evidence? This sounds like some crazy leftist shit.
No, it doesn't sound like "crazy leftist shit" to consider that a mentally unstable person who is paranoid could be more likely to buy a gun to protect them from the people they believe are out to get them. It's interesting that you've reacted this way to it.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,455
1,785
126
You have already been corrected on this. We are not saying owning a gun makes you more likely to die from a gun homicide, although this is true, we are saying it makes it more likely for you to die of homicide of ANY cause.

Owning something for safety that makes you more likely to die is irrational. Agree?
People own guns for than just safety. We're in a circular argument here. We disagree. Thats fine.
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
9,601
4,377
136
No, it doesn't sound like "crazy leftist shit" to consider that a mentally unstable person who is paranoid could be more likely to buy a gun to protect them from the people they believe are out to get them. It's interesting that you've reacted this way to it.
... and then carry it into walmart on their back because that's where all of "them" are.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
55,289
8,100
126
Just like driving or riding in a car makes you more likely to die in vehicular homicide. And flying makes it more probable youll die in a plane crash. As I said before, we all take risks. I dont make decisions based on fear.
Yes, you do. You absolutely do.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,455
1,785
126
No, it doesn't sound like "crazy leftist shit" to consider that a mentally unstable person who is paranoid could be more likely to buy a gun to protect them from the people they believe are out to get them. It's interesting that you've reacted this way to it.
If a person is determined mentally unstable, and diagnosed as paranoid, wouldnt pass a background check.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
28,067
8,896
136
I would suggest first that there is a substantial cohort of gun owners living unusually high risk lifestyles in the USA.
It COULD be both! ;)


And here I was thinking it would be cool to grab a drink or cup of coffee with you.
As I've stated previously I base my opinion of other members here on the AGGREGATE of the stuff they post and thus I'd still buy you a beer.

I hang out with people I don't agree with on everything all the time AND we get along just fine.... seems like a freaking lost art these days!
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
55,289
8,100
126
If a person is determined mentally unstable, and diagnosed as paranoid, wouldnt pass a background check.
Well, maybe, anyway, sometimes. Possibly.
And of course, that ignores people who haven't been diagnosed.
And this is you sidestepping your extreme reaction ("crazy leftist shit") to a reasonable statement.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,455
1,785
126
It COULD be both! ;)




As I've stated previously I base my opinion of other members here on the AGGREGATE of the stuff they post and thus I'd still buy you a beer.

I hang out with people I don't agree with on everything all the time AND we get along just fine.... seems like a freaking lost art these days!
Well youre right about that ;)
 
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