israel levels an entire city within an hour

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SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
The war has never ended there. The Palestinians have never been accepted there with the same rights as other Israelis.

I agree, and that makes it a horrible situation for every one, in that part of the world.

Because (in effect) some/all parts of the land, are wanted by BOTH sides, it makes it very difficult for the two parties to reach an agreement.


Should it be used as an excuse to steal more and more territory?

I don't know enough about the arguments about this, put forward by both sides, to comment on this.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
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The war has never ended there.
This is the core. The way wars end is when one or both participants lose the will to fight. Do we see this ever realistically happening? I don't and never have, not since I became aware of the situation in the 70's.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,422
10,723
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If you kept seeing people being killed / blown up on a piece of land, why would you stay there?
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
The Scottish, Catalans, Kurdish, and Native Americans still want independence even after centuries have gone bye.

This is how they keep receive Government assistance.

It all boils down to the individual, and their propensity to seek, Government Assistance.

-John
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Their national identity was gone long ago...

A few "leaders" bitch and moan in Congress,

And get Government Assistance.

-John
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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Jerusalem predates the Hebrews. Even the name predates any Israeli ownership of the city. How odd that the meaning of the name Jerusalem is in fact peace which correlates to the words salam and shalom from Arab and Israeli languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jerusalem

Proto-Canaanite period

Further information: Canaan


Archeological evidence suggests that the first settlement was established near Gihon Spring between 4500–3500 BCE. The first known mention of the city was in c. 2000 BCE in the Middle Kingdom Egyptian Execration Texts in which the city was recorded as Rusalimum.[12][13] The root S-L-M in the name is thought to refer to either "peace" (compare with modern Salam or Shalom in modern Arabic and Hebrew) or Shalim, the god of dusk in the Canaanite religion.
The Book of Genesis 14:18, mentions a city called Salem, which most Jewish commentators believe refers to Jerusalem, ruled by King Melchizedek, whose name means "my king is zedek", where Zedek is believed to refer either to the Canaanite deity Sydyk or the word righteous.[citation needed] According to one Jewish tradition reported by the midrash, Jerusalem was founded by Abraham's forefathers Shem and Eber.
Canaanite and New Kingdom Egyptian period

Further information: City of David
Archeological evidence suggests that by the 17th century BCE, the Canaanites had built massive walls (4 and 5 ton boulders, 26 feet high) on the eastern side of Jerusalem to protect their ancient water system.[14]
By c. 1550–1400 BCE, Jerusalem had become a vassal to Egypt after the Egyptian New Kingdom under Ahmose I and Thutmose I had reunited Egypt and expanded into the Levant. The Amarna letters contain correspondence from Abdi-Heba, headman[15] of Urusalim and his suzerain Amenhotep III.
The power of the Egyptians in the region began to decline in the 12th century BCE, during the Bronze Age collapse. The Battle of Djahy (Djahy being the Egyptian name for Canaan) in 1178 BCE between Ramesses III and the Sea Peoples marked the beginning of this decline. The gradual loss of a central power gave rise to independent kingdoms in the region. According to the Bible, Jerusalem at this time was known as Jebus and its independent Canaanite inhabitants at this time were known as Jebusites.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Meanwhile, there is a whole world of people that do not let religion impact their everyday life.

-John
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
This is how they keep receive Government assistance.

It all boils down to the individual, and their propensity to seek, Government Assistance.

-John

Well if you think this is only about government assistance then you are very much mistaken.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
Also to refer to the Jews as Israelis is probably wrong since it seems that nonjewish ethnicities and religions including Samaritans who are Israelis but not Jews are often discriminated against by the Jews.

Now the truth comes out. You're a racist.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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norseamd here is your beloved Hamas in action ---
http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-kill-over-30-suspected-collaborators-with-israel/

Hamas has executed more than 30 suspected collaborators in the Gaza Strip over the past few days, a Palestinian news agency reported on Monday.

Unnamed Palestinian security sources in Gaza told Palestine Press News Agency that Hamas has managed to apprehend dozens of suspected spies in the northern neighborhood of Shejaiya — which saw heavy fighting with the IDF last week — and summarily executed them following a short investigation. The sources said that many of the suspects were caught with weapons, telephones, and SIM cards from the Israeli cell provider Orange.




Hamas has undertaken numerous anti-collaboration campaigns in the Gaza Strip over the past years, offering amnesty to repentant Israeli spies. In May, the Hamas government executed two condemned collaborators for divulging information which Israel used to kill two Palestinians.


In November 2012, Hamas men on motorcycles were filmed dragging bodies of accused collaborators through the streets of Gaza.

Human Rights Watch and other watchdogs have condemned the summary execution of collaborators in Gaza.

Civilians in Gaza spoke to Palestinian Press of “suspicious men” attacking Hamas operatives in Shejaiya and indicating the homes of Hamas members to be struck by Israeli artillery or aircraft.

Last week, the Palestinian daily Al-Quds reported that collaborators in Gaza were using “special signals” to communicate with Israeli aircraft. They were firing tracer bullets near homes that were subsequently targeted by the Israeli Air Force.

Hamas’s Interior Ministry reported on July 15 that in the midst of Operation Protective Edge, the Internal Security Agency managed to thwart a number of subversive attacks aimed at “our people and our resistance.”

Ministry spokesman Iyad Al-Bozom threatened on his Facebook page that “any betrayal or cowardly act against our people” would lead to “the harshest punishment under Palestinian law.”

“The eyes of of the Internal Security Agency are dispersed throughout the Gaza Strip to maintain security and protect the home front,” Al-Bozom wrote.

Meanwhile, Fatah in the Gaza Strip condemned Hamas on Monday for placing a number of Fatah members under house arrest across the Gaza Strip since the start of Operation Protective Edge.

According to the PA’s official WAFA news agency, Fatah appealed to Hamas to stop arresting its members, and was told that the detentions were carried out by individuals and were not official Hamas policy. But the house arrests continued.

Fatah called on Hamas in a communique to stop harassing its members in Gaza, saying “at the moment what we need most is national solidarity to strengthen the home front.”

Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in a bloody coup in June 2007, killing or banishing most of Fatah’s members in the Strip.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
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I haven't read any realistic solution here, because there is not one beyond forcing one or the other side to capitulate. The only hope the Palestinians have of this happening to the Israelis is if radical Islam gets the bomb and uses it on Tel Aviv. Even that might not be enough. Can anyone think of another way either side will lose the will to fight?
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Education.

Government.

Telling people not to believe in Religion, but rather their neighbor.

Telling people to believe in themselves.

-John
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
I haven't read any realistic solution here, because there is not one beyond forcing one or the other side to capitulate. The only hope the Palestinians have of this happening to the Israelis is if radical Islam gets the bomb and uses it on Tel Aviv. Even that might not be enough. Can anyone think of another way either side will lose the will to fight?

When the state of Israel was first "created" (1948?), many of the nearby Arab states had a number of wars with Israel over the years.

These days, a number of them are at least partially friendly to Israel, and they seem to have stopped attacking Israel (at least directly/openly).

So maybe in time, things can improve.

Ideally they (Palestinians) need to have a non-terrorist based government. That should help a lot.
 
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norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
I haven't read any realistic solution here, because there is not one beyond forcing one or the other side to capitulate. The only hope the Palestinians have of this happening to the Israelis is if radical Islam gets the bomb and uses it on Tel Aviv. Even that might not be enough. Can anyone think of another way either side will lose the will to fight?

The first thing you need to do is get the crazy fundamentalists out of power in Israel like Netanyahu. Then you can focus on attempting to make peace with Hamas in exchange for lifting the blockade. If that does not work then you are going to have to try to dislodge Hamas in favor of Fatah or some other moderate political organization.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
When the state of Israel was first "created" (1948?), many of the nearby Arab states had a number of wars with Israel over the years.

These days, a number of them are at least partially friendly to Israel, and they seem to have stopped attacking Israel (at least directly/openly).

So maybe in time, things can improve.

Ideally they (Palestinians) need to have a non-terrorist based government. That should help a lot.
The only reason Arab states don't attack Israel, is that Israel can and will protect itself.

-John
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
What difference or relevance does that have to the situation at the moment.

You can't keep 4 million people walled in in a smaller and smaller area and deny them a lot of basic freedoms without "bad things" happening.

And you can't keep launching rockets into Israel without something like this happening. The fact that Israel hasn't leveled the who region shows amazing restraint on their behalf. I don't think I would be so tolerant.