is the Xbone hardware definitely inferior to the PS4?

[glugglug]

PS4 is $100 cheaper than the Xbox One.

Adding the webcam to the overall cost (+$60), the PS4 is still $40 cheaper than the Xbone.

Kinect (especially the X-Bone version) is more than just a webcam. I could easily see it contributing $100 or more to the cost.

PSN+ gives you free games every month that you keep and adds online multiplayer this generation for $50. Xbone charges you $60 for Gold and the free games are only for 360.

MS may charge $60 for 1 year of gold, but it is trivially easy to find it cheaper. Getting it $40 or below may have become difficult in the past year, but it still doesn't take much of a search to find it below $50. The only time I have paid $60 for gold is when it was bundled with a chat pad and headset. Remains to be seen if PSN will also be commonly discounted (most likely yes), and what the relative pricing is after discounts.

Moreover, PSN is the only one of the two giving you games you already bought/own digitally on one Playstation device for free on other Playstation devices.

Now we are getting into the real cost differentiators. Although there are hints that X-Bone might play some Windows 8.1 Metro games?

Plus, a LOT of people buy Xbox Live Gold just to be able to use Netflix with their Xbone. PS4 does not have that requirement. You get to use Netflix without a PSN subscription of any kind.

That's right. To have the option to watch Netflix on Xbox 360 (and Xbone), you pay. To do the same on PS4, you need pay nothing extra per month/year.

THIS I would say is the most important difference. Especially now that they got rid of family packs if you were using one for streaming to each TV.

The Xbone's only actual advantages are it offers TV features that no one outside the US can enjoy for probably the first year and webcam/Kinect features that failed to make any impact last gen.

Ironically, the 360 is far better in terms of "TV features" than the X-Bone because it has WMC instead of a idiotic cloning of the failed Google TV. In fact, I would argue that even the PS3 has better "TV features" than the X-Bone because of DLNA + DTCP-IP support.

 

[TeknoBug]

AFAIK you can't really do anything online with the XBox without gold, so $60/yr to even watch Netflix and other stuff, download betas, participation in some games (like in Forza 4 you can't access the market nor download gifted cars). With Sony's PSN you can play even Planetside 2 without a PSN+ or at least that's what Smedley said, among other DL games and Netflix, youtube, etc. should still be accessable without needing PSN+.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

AFAIK you can't really do anything online with the XBox without gold, so $60/yr to even watch Netflix and other stuff, download betas, participation in some games (like in Forza 4 you can't access the market nor download gifted cars). With Sony's PSN you can play even Planetside 2 without a PSN+ or at least that's what Smedley said, among other DL games and Netflix, youtube, etc. should still be accessable without needing PSN+.

The reason I hate my XBOX360 and the reason I will go ps4.

The xbox360 is also noisier than hell so noise may be the only thing that further changes my mind.

Any info on next generation noise levels?

 

[Anubis]

The reason I hate my XBOX360 and the reason I will go ps4.

The xbox360 is also noisier than hell so noise may be the only thing that further changes my mind.

Any info on next generation noise levels?

from what we saw at E3 they are both using large fans, i would assume they are 120+ low speed so hopefully they shoudl be quiet

 

[Arkaign]

from what we saw at E3 they are both using large fans, i would assume they are 120+ low speed so hopefully they shoudl be quiet

True.

The CPU and GPU clocks are super low (even with Microsoft's little bump from 1.6Ghz to 1.75Ghz and 800Mhz to 853Mhz for CPU/GPU respectively, looks like they are tied to a multiplier when you do the math there, which makes sense being on the same die).

The CPU is akin to an 8-core netbook part, and the GPUs are akin to low-midrange for XB1 and high-midrange for PS4 (eg; a hypothetical DDR3 7780 on XB1, and a more pedestrian hypothetical GDDR5 7860 for PS4). Yes, those models don't exist on PC because the specs lie in between the specs of actual PC GPUs. Looking at PC GPUs, cooling even a 7870 class GPU @ 800Mhz is child's play, and the XB1 even more so.

The economy really does suck right now, and it pains me to say that they probably made the right choice in aiming low spec wise, though Microsoft may have dropped the bar a tad too far for a console meant for 5+ years of relevance. If these things move really slow (once Q4 launch hype dies and the avid fanbases get their consoles), they have a lot of flexibility in lowering price without losing money unit for unit. Their reliability should be an order of magnitude superior to even PS3, and certainly the notorious 360's RROD debacle.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The reason I hate my XBOX360 and the reason I will go ps4.

The xbox360 is also noisier than hell so noise may be the only thing that further changes my mind.

Any info on next generation noise levels?

According to a German article, the ps3 is almost twice as loud as a ps4 after 60minutes of operation. Which means the ps4 will be super quiet by comparison.

http://www.gamepur.com/news/12477-ps4-noise-level-measured-and-compared-ps3.html

Xb1 is said to be really quiet too but no tests.

 

[glugglug]

The reason I hate my XBOX360 and the reason I will go ps4.

The xbox360 is also noisier than hell so noise may be the only thing that further changes my mind.

Any info on next generation noise levels?

When was the last time you saw a powered on XBOX? Seriously, I don't get the people complaining about the noise from it. Maybe the initial release was noiser, but certainly the versions for the last 4-5 years can't be heard more than a foot away other than the DVD drive.

FIOS DVRs are louder than the XBOX 360.
TWC DVRs are louder than the XBOX 360.
The fan on my UPS is a ton louder than the XBOX 360.
In fact, my Phantom 630 with the fan on low is a hell of a lot louder than the XBOX 360.

 

[Bman123]

From the start they should of had the kinect seperate so they could match the ps4 price wise on systems and let the consumer buy the kinect if they wanted it. I know I'm not buying a kinect that I'll never use so Sony was the best route for me

 

[mnewsham]

From the start they should of had the kinect seperate so they could match the ps4 price wise on systems and let the consumer buy the kinect if they wanted it. I know I'm not buying a kinect that I'll never use so Sony was the best route for me

They can't afford to have kinect be separate, the only real way to get developers to start developing for kinect is to make sure it is included with every XBone. Without that assurance, they know it will fail. At least this way they have a chance devs to get behind the kinect this time around.

 

[exdeath]

Kinect will fail anyway. Unless 100 million people playing Fruit Ninja and Kinect Sports/Dance is a success by any measure...

No actual gamers care for it.

This motion control error prone wave your hands like an idiot and waggle the controller shit needs to die.

 

[smackababy]

Kinect will fail anyway. Unless 100 million people playing Fruit Ninja and Kinect Sports/Dance is a success by any measure...

No actual gamers care for it.

This motion control error prone wave your hands like an idiot and waggle the controller shit needs to die.

That's funny because more people want a Kinect than the games you seem to hail as being amazing. Ni No Kuni did not even break 1 million units world wide. The Last of Us was at 3.3 million world wide. Kinect sold 24 million.

It is a good thing you don't run any companies. I would feel bad for all your employees when their checks bounce.

 

[Anteaus]

I'm going to derail the discussion for a moment. In spite of the deluge of reasons one would choose either the Xbox One or the PS4 over the other, I'm basing my decision purely on a game....and that is Forza. I owned a 360 back with Forza 2 was out and loved it, but later sold the 360 and even later got a PS3, partly because Gran Turismo 5 was "finally" coming out. I'm not going to talk about how that release went, nor am I trying to compare the two games, but long story short at that point I had a PS3 with a "generation defining" racing game I didn't want to play and ached for Forza, which in the mean time had two addition releases.

Fast forward to today and truthfully if GT6 had been for PS4 I would probably have gone that way, but instead GT fans have to wait until "in a year or two from 2013" for GT7 while Forza 5 hits at release and by the time GT7 comes out we will likely see Forza 6 if they keep to their two year release schedule.

Now GT purists will say that they would rather wait for the "better" game, but personally I'd rather be playing Forza 5 than not playing Gran Turismo 7. I may get a PS4 once GT7 releases.

Anyways, I bring it up because for me personally none of the technical differences matter nor the money. For me it's about the games I want to play, and I wish more people would look at it that simply.

 

[smackababy]

Anyways, I bring it up because for me personally none of the technical differences matter nor the money. For me it's about the games I want to play, and I wish more people would look at it that simply.

So, basically, you're doing what an intelligent person is doing and buying a system based on what games will be available for your enjoyment and not what some GPU theoretical maximum could achieve on a benchmark? You should stay away from the VC&G section with such sensible thoughts!

 

[TreVader]

I don't know why everyone seems to think PS4 is going to have some huge advantage over Xbox One. In reality they are essentially the same with one big difference: Kinect. Nobody gives a crap about the Sony PS eye or whatever because it won't be installed in every PS4 and therefore nearly nobody is going to code for it. With the Kinect, everybody has it, and every game will be optimized to use it.


Yes PS4 has a memory bandwidth advantage and I believe a clock speed advantage too, but that's immensely offset by the EDRAM in the Xbox One. EDRAM is MUCH easier to use in programming, it's not just a frame buffer. That plus Kinect make the Xbox One a better deal, and that's not counting the garbage controllers sony is pitching. They need to just flat out unashamedly copy the Xbox 360 controller... the Dual Shock is great for Japanese Tweens but is not useful to a 6' 190lb american.

What you're going to see is tons of hype surrounding marginal differences between the consoles, and huge disappointment when everybody who bought the PS4 realizes it's not only not superior to the One, it's actually inferior.

MAYBE in 3 years when they have optimized the crap out of the code you will see TINY differences between the systems, like between 360 and PS3, but nothing that warrants condemning yourself to using those Dual Shock controllers for 3 years. You couldn't pay me to play PS4, period. If you switched the controllers, it would be the opposite. Nobody who has used a 360 can argue that sonys controller is close to MS.

 

[HeXen]

Nobody gives a crap bout Kinect either.

 

[TreVader]

Nobody gives a crap bout Kinect either.

Yeah they will when every game is optimized for it. The Wii had only a basic functionality compared to kinect, and it was what MADE that console. I think even the people who wine about the extra $100 will be thankful they payed extra for the One

 

[Aikouka]

Yes PS4 has a memory bandwidth advantage and I believe a clock speed advantage too, but that's immensely offset by the EDRAM in the Xbox One. EDRAM is MUCH easier to use in programming, it's not just a frame buffer.

I haven't seen a single report stating that coding for the 32MB ESRAM is easier than simply using a significantly faster memory bus. In fact, it shouldn't be because you have to make smart, conscious decisions as to what should go into ESRAM at any given point. ESRAM is quick (~100GB/s) and has lower latency -- even lower than the PS4's GDDR5 given its on the die.

That plus Kinect make the Xbox One a better deal, and that's not counting the garbage controllers sony is pitching. They need to just flat out unashamedly copy the Xbox 360 controller... the Dual Shock is great for Japanese Tweens but is not useful to a 6' 190lb american.

Yet again, I've heard quite a lot of good press about the DualShock 4 compared to the DualShock 3. Pretty much every video that I've seen or article that I've read had people stating that the DualShock 3 just wasn't that great, but they think the DualShock 4 is a marked improvement. My extra DualShock 4 comes in on Wednesday, so I'll be able to formulate my own opinion then.

 

[HeXen]

*sniff**sniff....anyone smell that? *sniff* smells like a fanboi in here.

 

[Cuda1447]

Yeah they will when every game is optimized for it. The Wii had only a basic functionality compared to kinect, and it was what MADE that console. I think even the people who wine about the extra $100 will be thankful they payed extra for the One

I think the Kinect appeals to super casual gamers. The market the wii appealed too. The majority of gamers though, the ones that really drive the market... saw the Wii as gimmicky. I bought a Wii, used it a handful of times. It sucked, honestly. I have a kinect, have used it on the gimmicky dance games. It's not good for much else outside of that. I have NO desire to have a Kinect 2. Now I may be surprised by its functionality/use.... but I'll be surprised.

 

[Anteaus]

Yet again, I've heard quite a lot of good press about the DualShock 4 compared to the DualShock 3. Pretty much every video that I've seen or article that I've read had people stating that the DualShock 3 just wasn't that great, but they think the DualShock 4 is a marked improvement. My extra DualShock 4 comes in on Wednesday, so I'll be able to formulate my own opinion then.

I hope that's true. I have smallish hands and the DS3 controller was very uncomfortable to hold for any period of time. My hands would cramp. The analog triggers were especially annoying which is one of the reasons why I think GT5 avoided using them. To me the 360 controller was far more comfortable, especially for driving games where I needed to hold it for long periods of time. DS3 isn't necessarily a bad controller...I just think Sony was trying to play it safe and the analog triggers were tacked on without serious thoughts of ergonomics.

Since the DS4 controller will be all digital except for the triggers (no more analog buttons), I would hope they had redesigned it for more comfort using the analog triggers. Just based on what I read it should be far more responsive and comfortable than the DS3, but I'm going to hold final judgment until I can hold one.

 

[Bman123]

Yeah they will when every game is optimized for it. The Wii had only a basic functionality compared to kinect, and it was what MADE that console. I think even the people who wine about the extra $100 will be thankful they payed extra for the One

How much do you get paid by MS? I'm being serious right now.

You really think every single game is going to be optimized for the kinect? Just because it comes with the system doesnt mean the game makers give a shit about it or have to use it.

 

[HeXen]

They can't afford to have kinect be separate, the only real way to get developers to start developing for kinect is to make sure it is included with every XBone. Without that assurance, they know it will fail. At least this way they have a chance devs to get behind the kinect this time around.

There is no guarantee that very many devs will use it. Certainly all the dance games and such, but most people don't mind buying separately just to play such games.

On another note, the last thing I want to hear from my stepson's bedroom is him shouting at the Kinect to give it commands, or well anyone for that matter, so I hope few games will make use of it's voice function.

 

[purbeast0]

i personally won't have kinect even hooked up just due to logistics. i believe i heard the cord is only 10 feet long. my a/v closet is about 25 feet from the front of my screen, so i physically can't have them hooked up at the same time. so until an extension cord of some sort comes out, i can't even try it out. and even then, i doubt i will have it just sitting out ever unless a game very specifically needs it, because i'm not running more wires through the walls/ceiling for kinect, and i'm not going to be leaving it out on the carpet from my closet all the time.

 

[cmdrdredd]

That's funny because more people want a Kinect than the games you seem to hail as being amazing. Ni No Kuni did not even break 1 million units world wide. The Last of Us was at 3.3 million world wide. Kinect sold 24 million.

It is a good thing you don't run any companies. I would feel bad for all your employees when their checks bounce.

Kinect sold as a bundled hardware set for much of that number. It's hard to say whether or not having it totally seperate from any hardware bundles at all would yield good sales numbers.

I don't know why everyone seems to think PS4 is going to have some huge advantage over Xbox One. In reality they are essentially the same with one big difference: Kinect. Nobody gives a crap about the Sony PS eye or whatever because it won't be installed in every PS4 and therefore nearly nobody is going to code for it. With the Kinect, everybody has it, and every game will be optimized to use it.


Yes PS4 has a memory bandwidth advantage and I believe a clock speed advantage too, but that's immensely offset by the EDRAM in the Xbox One. EDRAM is MUCH easier to use in programming, it's not just a frame buffer. That plus Kinect make the Xbox One a better deal, and that's not counting the garbage controllers sony is pitching. They need to just flat out unashamedly copy the Xbox 360 controller... the Dual Shock is great for Japanese Tweens but is not useful to a 6' 190lb american.

What you're going to see is tons of hype surrounding marginal differences between the consoles, and huge disappointment when everybody who bought the PS4 realizes it's not only not superior to the One, it's actually inferior.

MAYBE in 3 years when they have optimized the crap out of the code you will see TINY differences between the systems, like between 360 and PS3, but nothing that warrants condemning yourself to using those Dual Shock controllers for 3 years. You couldn't pay me to play PS4, period. If you switched the controllers, it would be the opposite. Nobody who has used a 360 can argue that sonys controller is close to MS.

It's easier to use unified memory by far and "games optimized for kinect."? What the hell is that supposed to mean? None of the good launch games use it in a significant way, now that you don't even need to plug it in I'm betting almost every early adopter leaves it in the box.

 

[purbeast0]

I think the Kinect appeals to super casual gamers. The market the wii appealed too. The majority of gamers though, the ones that really drive the market... saw the Wii as gimmicky. I bought a Wii, used it a handful of times. It sucked, honestly. I have a kinect, have used it on the gimmicky dance games. It's not good for much else outside of that. I have NO desire to have a Kinect 2. Now I may be surprised by its functionality/use.... but I'll be surprised.

i think the subtle uses of kinect are going to be neat and convenient, but nothing mind blowing. they are already talking about with killer instinct how kinect can pick up on who has the controller in their hand and it will auto-set your buttons for you, as well as pre-select your favorite character by moving the cursor to that person but not selecting it for you.

this was talk that the ki devs talked about and i'm not sure if they implemented it or not though yet. but again, nothing mind blowing or anything, but it's pretty nice and neat convenience features, and if you've ever been to a live tournament, A LOT of time is wasted with button checks and people setting up buttons.