is the Xbone hardware definitely inferior to the PS4?

[Kneedragger]

A pretty good article on the two consoles. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ware-balance-actually-means-for-game-creators

 

[TeknoBug]

Both XBone and PS4 are using the same platform CPU (AMD Jaguar APU) and supposedly the same graphics, however PS4's memory is GDDR5 vs XBone's today's standard DDR3, there's a few other differences but they're minimal. I think if both consoles had the same software or the same benchmark application, the PS4 would pull ahead.

I wouldn't even consider a XBone, not after what Microsoft tried to pull a few months ago, I have a XBox 360 and haven't played it in nearly 2 years, I WAS going to use it as my Netflix HTPC but unfortunately you need XBL to even use that (I ain't paying $50 yr for that).

 

[HeXen]

Benchmarks are just numbers. It's what you can really notice that matters.

 

[Pheran]

Both XBone and PS4 are using the same platform CPU (AMD Jaguar APU) and supposedly the same graphics, however PS4's memory is GDDR5 vs XBone's today's standard DDR3, there's a few other differences but they're minimal. I think if both consoles had the same software or the same benchmark application, the PS4 would pull ahead.

The "same graphics" part of that is completely incorrect. The PS4 GPU has 50% more execution units than the one in the XBO.

 

[Bman123]

The "same graphics" part of that is completely incorrect. The PS4 GPU has 50% more execution units than the one in the XBO.

that's what I'm baking on giving us higher minimum frame rates

 

[cmdrdredd]

I don't get it

I guess cause it's all pixelated and when you stand back further you don't notice each pixel as much.

None of the Gamestops in my area have DS4 controllers in yet. I don't live in NY or SF so maybe major cities get them early for logistical purposes or something. I would have grabbed mine early in order to try using it on PC which apparently it does work with.

 

[Bman123]

my local store had the ds4 last week

 

[cmdrdredd]

my local store had the ds4 last week

It seems some locations get them and others do not.

I actually posted that in the wrong thread though lol.

 

[Aikouka]

A pretty good article on the two consoles. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ware-balance-actually-means-for-game-creators

It's an interesting article, but this statement bugged me:

"A higher IPC number means that the CPU is effectively doing more work for a given clock cycle, so it doesn't need to run as fast to do the same amount of work as a previous generation CPU."

That is somewhat true, but it's not necessarily true in the case of current-generation consoles versus next-generation consoles. The problem is that you cannot simply compare IPCs across ISAs. The next-gen consoles use x86-64-based CPUs and the current-gen consoles use RISC-based PowerPC CPUs.

 

[futurefields]

The cpu's are garbage. Cevat Yerli of Crytek also said there is little cpu improvement over last gen. Which really means "the cpu's are garbage" but he's a developer so it's not wise for him to be that blunt.

 

[Arkaign]

The cpu's are garbage. Cevat Yerli of Crytek also said there is little cpu improvement over last gen. Which really means "the cpu's are garbage" but he's a developer so it's not wise for him to be that blunt.

So much truth.

The only bonus I can think is with game dev focused on consoles, they're REALLY going to have to work hard at multithreading.

 

[glugglug]

Regardless of the hardware itself, I am curious as to how much BS restrictions MS will put on any streaming apps to push their own Zune/XBOX Video/Music crap instead.


For example, Netflix (and possibly other apps) supported 1080p on the 360 in late 2010-2011. But the Fall 2011 update the "Metro-ized" the dashboard and took away the Netflix party mode feature also reduced the maximum resolution of any non-MS authored app to 720p.


If you enter the (not quite konami) code on the Netflix XBOX app to get to the debug menus, (up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-up-up-up-up), you will see that the app thinks your display is set to 720p, regardless of the actual setting you made from the dashboard. Only the movies rented at above-theatre prices from the Zune/XBLive marketplace are capable of 1080p now.


This also sets a precedent that if a successor comes around to the X-Bone, you can count on the X-Bone's capabilities getting artificially limited as well. And I'm sure this desire to force you into their overpriced rental market is why the X-Bone has no WMC support and one of the XBOX devs said that to stream music to it from your own PC you will need to pay $100/year for a XBOX Music subscription in addition to having a gold subscription, implying that it doesn't support DLNA like pretty much every other media device out there. They even referred to WMC as a "hole" that people used with the 360 which was "plugged".

 

[glugglug]

It's an interesting article, but this statement bugged me:

"A higher IPC number means that the CPU is effectively doing more work for a given clock cycle, so it doesn't need to run as fast to do the same amount of work as a previous generation CPU."

That is somewhat true, but it's not necessarily true in the case of current-generation consoles versus next-generation consoles. The problem is that you cannot simply compare IPCs across ISAs. The next-gen consoles use x86-64-based CPUs and the current-gen consoles use RISC-based PowerPC CPUs.

An x86-64 CPU does far more per instruction than a RISC based PPC. The higher IPC and doing more per instruction will multiply each other, so the gap will just be that much wider.

 

[Bman123]

The cpus are far from garbage, and saying it's not much of a improvement is a load of shit. Just because the clock speed isn't as high the ipc is better, you have more cores and that will make multi threading more every day in terms of gaming and that will work wonders for the pc people

 

[cyclohexane]

Regardless of the hardware itself, I am curious as to how much BS restrictions MS will put on any streaming apps to push their own Zune/XBOX Video/Music crap instead.


For example, Netflix (and possibly other apps) supported 1080p on the 360 in late 2010-2011. But the Fall 2011 update the "Metro-ized" the dashboard and took away the Netflix party mode feature also reduced the maximum resolution of any non-MS authored app to 720p.


If you enter the (not quite konami) code on the Netflix XBOX app to get to the debug menus, (up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-up-up-up-up), you will see that the app thinks your display is set to 720p, regardless of the actual setting you made from the dashboard. Only the movies rented at above-theatre prices from the Zune/XBLive marketplace are capable of 1080p now.


This also sets a precedent that if a successor comes around to the X-Bone, you can count on the X-Bone's capabilities getting artificially limited as well. And I'm sure this desire to force you into their overpriced rental market is why the X-Bone has no WMC support and one of the XBOX devs said that to stream music to it from your own PC you will need to pay $100/year for a XBOX Music subscription in addition to having a gold subscription, implying that it doesn't support DLNA like pretty much every other media device out there. They even referred to WMC as a "hole" that people used with the 360 which was "plugged".

Lol, brilliant way to screw over loyal fans

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Am I the only one looking at long term costs? I am not paying for a gold membership on xbox so they probably lost me.

 

[HeXen]

I don't trust MS, they'll nickel and dime you and try to hide it any way they can. They lost me long ago. Well that and the $100 more upfront cost just to have a camera that I would never use nor want to talk to. I only talk to friends and that camera is not my friend!

 

[zerocool84]

Am I the only one looking at long term costs? I am not paying for a gold membership on xbox so they probably lost me.

You have to pay to play multi-player games on PS4 but not to watch things like Netflix.

I don't trust MS, they'll nickel and dime you and try to hide it any way they can. They lost me long ago. Well that and the $100 more upfront cost just to have a camera that I would never use nor want to talk to. I only talk to friends and that camera is not my friend!

Yea, I thought it was retarded to have to buy a wireless adaptor and battery pack for the 360, they're doing basically the same thing again. Why the hell are they still making batteries separate for the controllers?

 

[Dominato3r]

Regardless of the hardware itself, I am curious as to how much BS restrictions MS will put on any streaming apps to push their own Zune/XBOX Video/Music crap instead.


For example, Netflix (and possibly other apps) supported 1080p on the 360 in late 2010-2011. But the Fall 2011 update the "Metro-ized" the dashboard and took away the Netflix party mode feature also reduced the maximum resolution of any non-MS authored app to 720p.


If you enter the (not quite konami) code on the Netflix XBOX app to get to the debug menus, (up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-up-up-up-up), you will see that the app thinks your display is set to 720p, regardless of the actual setting you made from the dashboard. Only the movies rented at above-theatre prices from the Zune/XBLive marketplace are capable of 1080p now.


This also sets a precedent that if a successor comes around to the X-Bone, you can count on the X-Bone's capabilities getting artificially limited as well. And I'm sure this desire to force you into their overpriced rental market is why the X-Bone has no WMC support and one of the XBOX devs said that to stream music to it from your own PC you will need to pay $100/year for a XBOX Music subscription in addition to having a gold subscription, implying that it doesn't support DLNA like pretty much every other media device out there. They even referred to WMC as a "hole" that people used with the 360 which was "plugged".

The original Netflix app with the party viewing was made by MS, the updated one was made by Netflix.

WMC support is fading in Windows 8 as well, so I don't get the conspiracy there.

 

[TeknoBug]

I don't trust MS, they'll nickel and dime you and try to hide it any way they can. They lost me long ago. Well that and the $100 more upfront cost just to have a camera that I would never use nor want to talk to. I only talk to friends and that camera is not my friend!

The NSA needs friends... :whiste:

 

[Pheran]

Am I the only one looking at long term costs? I am not paying for a gold membership on xbox so they probably lost me.

As Zerocool pointed out, if you want to play online multiplayer on a next-gen console (Wii U doesn't count), you'll have to pay a subscription fee to somebody.

 

[glugglug]

The original Netflix app with the party viewing was made by MS, the updated one was made by Netflix.

WMC support is fading in Windows 8 as well, so I don't get the conspiracy there.

I would say "fading" is an understatement, but again, they said WMC was a "hole" used to stream music/video without going through the XBLive paywall, and why do Netflix and other non-MS apps now see the 360 display resolution as "1280x720" even when it is explicitly set to 1080p while XBOX/Zune Video streams at 1080p?.

 

[Bman123]

The subscription fee to play online is fine with me as long as the online experience is good and it was way better on the 360 then the ps3. I'm really hoping the ps4 gets it together this time.

 

[HisDivineOrder]

As Zerocool pointed out, if you want to play online multiplayer on a next-gen console (Wii U doesn't count), you'll have to pay a subscription fee to somebody.

But even that's cheaper on Playstation 4 than Xbone's equivalent.

To recap:

PS4 is $100 cheaper than the Xbox One.

Adding the webcam to the overall cost (+$60), the PS4 is still $40 cheaper than the Xbone.

PSN+ gives you free games every month that you keep and adds online multiplayer this generation for $50. Xbone charges you $60 for Gold and the free games are only for 360.

Moreover, PSN is the only one of the two giving you games you already bought/own digitally on one Playstation device for free on other Playstation devices. So far, Microsoft hasn't done any sort of porting, but it doesn't look good that they'll give you games you own from 360 to Xbone because they sure don't on any of their other platforms (own an app on Windows 8, you rarely (if ever) get it on Windows Phone).

So again, you save money.

Plus, a LOT of people buy Xbox Live Gold just to be able to use Netflix with their Xbone. PS4 does not have that requirement. You get to use Netflix without a PSN subscription of any kind.

That's right. To have the option to watch Netflix on Xbox 360 (and Xbone), you pay. To do the same on PS4, you need pay nothing extra per month/year.

PS4 - $400 vs Xbone - $500
PSN - $50 per year vs Xbox Live Gold - $60
Webcam - $60 vs Xbone included (at $100 extra console cost)
Game ownership transfers, saving you money on many of your favorite digital (indie) titles for PS4; MS isn't bothering to port either your licenses or your arcade titles right now. If you enjoy Flower for example, it's supposed to be better on PS4 than it was on PS3. It's free for all those who own it.

Often, I wonder if people considering an Xbone aren't just those with more money than sense. The Xbone's only actual advantages are it offers TV features that no one outside the US can enjoy for probably the first year and webcam/Kinect features that failed to make any impact last gen. Moreover, I suspect anything that'll be used will see PS4 matching it with a far cheaper peripheral.

If the PS4 webcam makes no impact, the Kinect camera will go mostly unused since by all accounts it appears PS4 is becoming the lead platform for this gen (like the 360 was this last gen, PS2 was the gen before, PS1 was the gen before that) for multiplatform ports. If that's true, you don't even need the cheaper webcam.

I just don't see the value argument for Xbone unless you really love you some TV or you have a hatred for all things Sony or a love for all things Microsoft. Otherwise, pricing seems to argue against Xbone. Performance argues against Xbone. Microsoft's every action seems to argue against the Xbone. Microsoft's lack of proven first party developers argues against the Xbone.

I've got preorders of both because I couldn't imagine MS would get to November with nothing more than they announced way back post-E3 crazy talk.

Yet here I am. A week out from November and I'm a PC gamer still waiting for Microsoft to show me something I can't do better with my SLI PC and a PS4 for backup...

 

[Pheran]

But even that's cheaper on Playstation 4 than Xbone's equivalent.

To recap:

PS4 is $100 cheaper than the Xbox One.

Adding the webcam to the overall cost (+$60), the PS4 is still $40 cheaper than the Xbone.

PSN+ gives you free games every month that you keep and adds online multiplayer this generation for $50. Xbone charges you $60 for Gold and the free games are only for 360.

If you're trying to convince me that the PS4 looks like a better value than the XBO, you're preaching to the choir. But I will say that I have never, ever paid more than $40/year for Xbox Live, and sometimes I've only paid $35. It's pretty easy to find periodic sales on 12 month Live cards.