Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[511]

I am not sure that past experience on a monolithic CPU design with only 1 kind of core (which is my experience) is representative. My guess is that in the bios or even the scheduler in the processor for ARL, there may be much lower level control that could prohibit this trick from working.

FWIW, I have only used thread affinity to assign a single core to a high priority task (I/O) for a manufacturing test system. I have never attempted to isolate to a single core for a single thread before. Have you? If so, on what CPU?

I have a Meteor Lake Cpu manually assigning games on P cores and apparently it didn't made much difference vs Regular scheduling

 

[igor_kavinski]

View attachment 113086

200W TDP in a laptop??? Dang, just lost control of my salivary glands

 

[igor_kavinski]

I have a Meteor Lake Cpu manually assigning games on P cores and apparently it didn't made much difference vs Regular scheduling

Used Process Lasso?

 

[511]

Used Process Lasso?

Windows core affinity

 

[Doug S]

200W TDP in a laptop??? Dang, just lost control of my salivary glands

That can happen when your brain seizes up because you just noticed your junk is on fire.

 

[coercitiv]

That can happen when your brain seizes up because you just noticed your junk is on fire.

There's not such thing as brain seizing up because your junk is on fire.

I don't even want to know the purpose of that third fan near the battery.

 

[511]

There's not such thing as brain seizing up because your junk is on fire.

I don't even want to know the purpose of that third fan near the battery.
View attachment 113096

What the F is that fan doing it has better use on that vacuume chamber than battery

 

[Hulk]

The 285K is always sold out at MC and Amazon. Is the volume extremely or are people buying these parts in significant numbers?

 

[techjunkie123]

The 285K is always sold out at MC and Amazon. Is the volume extremely or are people buying these parts in significant numbers?

Volume low for top spec 1T boost I believe....
Ultra 7 should be more available.

 

[Hulk]

Volume low for top spec 1T boost I believe....
Ultra 7 should be more available.

Yes, that makes sense because 265k and 245k are and have been readily available. I wonder how many 285k processors have been shipped?

 

[Kepler_L2]

The 285K is always sold out at MC and Amazon. Is the volume extremely or are people buying these parts in significant numbers?

Very low volume.

 

[Joe NYC]

Yes, that makes sense because 265k and 245k are and have been readily available. I wonder how many 285k processors have been shipped?

Volume of 285k, when rounded to nearest 1,000 is zero.

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[Hulk]

Volume of 285k, when rounded to nearest 1,000 is zero.

So less then 500 huh? Interesting. Please substantiate or is this just opinion?

 

[Joe NYC]

So less then 500 huh? Interesting. Please substantiate or is this just opinion?

Yes: 265k sales on Amazon for the month were 500, and it is in stock (and has been, for weeks). Has ranking on Amazon. 285k - I haven't seen it in stock in last ~3 weeks, and it does not even have a sales rank.

Edit: Looks like 285k just showed up today, for the first time I am seeing it (from a scalper) and is shown as 2nd from the bottom in "Best Sellers"

Amazon.com

 

[Hulk]

Yes: 265k sales on Amazon for the month were 500, and it is in stock (and has been, for weeks). Has ranking on Amazon. 285k - I haven't seen it in stock in last ~3 weeks, and it does not even have a sales rank.

Edit: Looks like 285k just showed up today, for the first time I am seeing it (from a scalper) and is shown as 2nd from the bottom in "Best Sellers"

Amazon.com

But no numbers for the 285K? It is possible that people out to get Arrow Lake are more the enthusiast type that are looking for the top of the stack? I don't know, just wondering. I mean you're saying they haven't even sent out a tray (1000) of these CPU's, right? That seems ridiculously low.

 

[Joe NYC]

But no numbers for the 285K? It is possible that people out to get Arrow Lake are more the enthusiast type that are looking for the top of the stack? I don't know, just wondering. I mean you're saying they haven't even sent out a tray (1000) of these CPU's, right? That seems ridiculously low.

To put the unit sold in context the top 5 CPUs sold:
10k
10k
10k
10k
8k

This month includes Black Friday and Christmas shopping, and numbers are higher than a typical month. Typical month is 1/3 to 1/2 of these numbers.

The CPUs are (almost all) Boxed, Retail CPUs. I am not sure what quantities are in a typical box of these processors are shipped it, but I would say somewhere between 40 to 100 units per shipping box. That's what my guess is what Micro Center gets as shipment to retail stores, and updates its stock to "25+". I doubt Amazon gets these in much bigger boxes. Maybe just number of these boxes on a pallet.

Amazon Best Sellers: Best Computer CPU Processors

Discover the best Computer CPU Processors in Best Sellers. Find the top 100 most popular items in Amazon Computers & Accessories Best Sellers.

www.amazon.com

I don't think there is any evidence pointing to anything higher than trivial number of 285k processors sold. Likely a fraction of 265k sales of 500 units.

Looking at number of units sold by CPU ranked 1 above 285k, and it was 100 units. CPU ranked 2 above 285k was 200 units.

 

[511]

There are many rumors on X suggesting that the newly released Battlemage graphics card is sold out almost everywhere. This marks the first time Intel has had a decent dGPU launch.

That is a better product than ARL it is sold out due to demand whily 285K is sold out due to low stock

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[511]

285K is not gonna sell much until Intel addresses the issues. Even the so called magic fix never made it.

Yup B580 is the best Intel product launch ever alongside LNL this year 🤣

 

[del42sa]

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...s-dispel-rumors-regarding-poor-silicon-health

Intel Panther Lake samples with flagship 18A node have been powered on at eight customers — Co-CEOs dispel rumors regarding poor silicon health​

 

[Kaffeekenan]

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...s-dispel-rumors-regarding-poor-silicon-health

Intel Panther Lake samples with flagship 18A node have been powered on at eight customers — Co-CEOs dispel rumors regarding poor silicon health​

"powered on" is like the soooooper bare minimum and intel speech for "hey our chip does not explode guys". Just look at the timespan between powered on and mass production of meteor lake for instance. Meteor lake was "powered on" in april 2022 and came out in december 2023. So no intel I AM NOT IMPRESSED!!

 

[511]

"powered on" is like the soooooper bare minimum and intel speech for "hey our chip does not explode guys". Just look at the timespan between powered on and mass production of meteor lake for instance. Meteor lake was "powered on" in april 2022 and came out in december 2023. So no intel I AM NOT IMPRESSED!!

Lunar lake took approx 1 year from power on to availability 2 Steppings
Meteor lake took 1.5-2 years with 3 steppings
Upto you which data point to take
Both of them were with Node Delays N3B was 6 month delayed and Intel 7nm(Intel 4) was delayed for a couple of years

BTW How did TSMC managed to get 6 month delay due to Intel ?🤣🤣

 

[Krteq]

Where are the performance fixes?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1866793675659022652

Well, who would even...

Intel's latest Arrow Lake CPU firmware reportedly offers little to no performance gains — users test the microcode ahead of launch on the ASRock Z890 Taichi OCF

Intel's promised fix for Arrow Lake is still yet to arrive.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Win2012R2]

Lunar lake took approx 1 year from power on to availability 2 Steppings
Meteor lake took 1.5-2 years with 3 steppings

And that was just Intel design problems, not the manufacturing process that they used (at least for compute), where as here the farm was bet on A18, unless they got Plan B to switch it to TSMC.