Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

Intel Raptor Lake UIntel Wildcat Lake 15W?Intel Lunar LakeIntel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch DateQ1-2024Q2-2026Q3-2024Q1-2026
ModelIntel 150UIntel Core 7Core Ultra 7 268VCore Ultra 7 365
Dies2223
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU2 P-core + 8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads12688
Max Clock5.4 GHz?5 GHz4.8 GHz
L3 Cache12 MB12 MB12 MB
TDP15 - 55 W15 W ?17 - 37 W25 - 55 W
Memory128-bit LPDDR5-520064-bit LPDDR5128-bit LPDDR5x-8533128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size96 GB32 GB128 GB
Bandwidth136 GB/s
GPUIntel GraphicsIntel GraphicsArc 140VIntel Graphics
RTNoNoYESYES
EU / Xe96 EU2 Xe8 Xe4 Xe
Max Clock1.3 GHz?2 GHz2.5 GHz
NPUGNA 3.018 TOPS48 TOPS49 TOPS






PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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controlflow

Member
Feb 17, 2015
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511 said:
Lunar lake took approx 1 year from power on to availability 2 Steppings
Meteor lake took 1.5-2 years with 3 steppings
Upto you which data point to take
Both of them were with Node Delays N3B was 6 month delayed and Intel 7nm(Intel 4) was delayed for a couple of years

BTW How did TSMC managed to get 6 month delay due to Intel ?🤣🤣
Click to expand...

This isn't the actual "power on". Power on for for CWF and PTL happened before August. They were booting OS months ago: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...r-lake-and-clearwater-forest-cpus-are-booting

The recent reports are referring to ES PTL samples at OEMs being used.
 
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igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
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www.tomshardware.com

Linux 6.13-rc3 fixes expensive CPUID handling on Sapphire Rapids CPUs — an issue resulting in Skylake CPUs being 4X faster for CPUID-related updates

This is arguably one of the most bizarre issues to crop up to date in the Linux kernel.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com

Apparently all those Sapphire Rapids steppings and this issue still managed to creep in. First of all, it should never have happened if they had copy pasted the relevant silicon blocks from tried and true previous designs. Second, looks like they are using crappy validation teams. So nothing has changed since Skylake.
 
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KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
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The magic firmware upgrade will fix ARL - especially in games - always has an extreme copium vibe to it IMO.

About the only way I might have bought it, is it we had tons of rumours of Intel launching ARL nearly totally unready. We heard some rumours of a slightly rushed launch but not enough to justify the copium.
 
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Hulk

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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SiliconFly said:
An early leak on the new µcode update (0x114) for Intel Arrow Lake desktop CPUs. And it looks disappointing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869095694348562653

Sadly, it appears ARL-S desktop parts are a dud after all. Hope at least the upcoming ARL-H laptop parts are able to stand up to competition as they don't need to be clocked high.
Click to expand...
My prediction for the Intel response to microcode update testing.

"Unfortunately the results obtained by indpendent reviewers of ARL with the microcode update were not what we expected."

Oh, okay. That explains everything. Thanks Intel. Really, thanks for continuing to be so forthcoming. Your transparency is quite a relief to all of the customers who have purchased your processors.
 
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Thunder 57

Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
4,294
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SiliconFly said:
An early leak on the new µcode update (0x114) for Intel Arrow Lake desktop CPUs. And it looks disappointing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869095694348562653

Sadly, it appears ARL-S desktop parts are a dud after all. Hope at least the upcoming ARL-H laptop parts are able to stand up to competition as they don't need to be clocked high.
Click to expand...

In my experience updates, whether it be microcode, BIOS, Windows, etc have never amounted to much of anything. You just seem to hear that whenever a lackluster part is released. It reminds me of the Bulldozer days when they said an update for the Windows scheduler was needed. It did next to nothing.
 
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511

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2024
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igor_kavinski said:
www.tomshardware.com

Linux 6.13-rc3 fixes expensive CPUID handling on Sapphire Rapids CPUs — an issue resulting in Skylake CPUs being 4X faster for CPUID-related updates

This is arguably one of the most bizarre issues to crop up to date in the Linux kernel.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com

Apparently all those Sapphire Rapids steppings and this issue still managed to creep in. First of all, it should never have happened if they had copy pasted the relevant silicon blocks from tried and true previous designs. Second, looks like they are using crappy validation teams. So nothing has changed since Skylake.
Click to expand...
EMR has less stepping than SPR LOL
It's 2 vs 8! Steppings
GNR is only 1 stepping
Screenshot_20241218-111845.pngScreenshot_20241218-111932.png
 
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D

DavidC1

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2023
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igor_kavinski said:
Apparently all those Sapphire Rapids steppings and this issue still managed to creep in. First of all, it should never have happened if they had copy pasted the relevant silicon blocks from tried and true previous designs. Second, looks like they are using crappy validation teams. So nothing has changed since Skylake.
Click to expand...
It's not crappy validation teams. At one point they canned the entire team. That's why it got delayed, and why it struggled.

Also on a device as complex as a modern high end CPU core, there's no such thing as pure copy and paste. It's not Windows Paint.
 
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511

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2024
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Kepler_L2 said:
Up to 58% performance increase with Windows/BIOS updates? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
AMD we identified a bug fixing this would improve performance by 5%
Intel: Hold my Bear we had BIOS and SW optimization we can improve performance by upto 58%
 
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