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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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DavidC1 said:
So the best you can expect from big corporations is when they are suffering, because they have no choice.
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What do you mean? Intel is suffering, and all their support is crashing like a house of cards while some lead mumble about not wanting to support competition while cutting their own nose to spite them.
 
moinmoin said:
What do you mean? Intel is suffering, and all their support is crashing like a house of cards while some lead mumble about not wanting to support competition while cutting their own nose to spite them.
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So they could go a lot lower before they reach a "humbled" state. Like AMD did right before Zen. But muh National Security....
 
Intel did a lot of this to themselves. A quick search online shows multiple articles on their H1B visa abuse in the past, the struggles that came from having people in positions that they had no business being in, then the rounds of layoffs from their financials suffering from having lost their edge due to their own decisions in the late teens and COVID era.

They get no sympathy from me, and will be ruthless in attempting to survive.
 
moinmoin said:
That's actually the part that makes this whole development even more puzzling.

Intel could have moved a lot of effort into a "make x86 great" pool shared with AMD. What they did though is layoffs without replacements (orphaning significant chucks of code) and insist that future efforts need to help only Intel.

All while the problem is that Intel's current hardware implementation simply is worse than AMD's, but that can change again. Which is what Intel should strive for, not holding back open source support for x86 standards (which Intel is setting).
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It also just happens that all of the server CPU share losses of x86 to Arm came at expense of Intel.
 
Intel server stuff is WAYYYY too expensive. It's not just Intel that benefits from that, or used to benefit. Their partners basically exploit their customers into paying and paying for extended support. Our old Ivy Bridge servers lost support from Dell after three years because our company refused to pay the exorbitant support fees they wanted. Then we paid over $7000 for a Cascade Lake 6248R HP server when we should have been offered a Sapphire Rapids server for that price. Intel did this to themselves. Sure, you can abuse your monopoly position for a few years or decades even but eventually, you pay for it when those you wrong return the favor.
 
LightningZ71 said:
Intel did a lot of this to themselves. A quick search online shows multiple articles on their H1B visa abuse in the past, the struggles that came from having people in positions that they had no business being in, then the rounds of layoffs from their financials suffering from having lost their edge due to their own decisions in the late teens and COVID era.

They get no sympathy from me, and will be ruthless in attempting to survive.
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This Intel killed themselves no other company was capable of killing them besides themselves.
 
LightningZ71 said:
Intel did a lot of this to themselves. A quick search online shows multiple articles on their H1B visa abuse in the past, the struggles that came from having people in positions that they had no business being in, then the rounds of layoffs from their financials suffering from having lost their edge due to their own decisions in the late teens and COVID era.

They get no sympathy from me, and will be ruthless in attempting to survive.
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That H1B abuse may finally be coming to an end, or at least vastly reduced.
 
511 said:
Timing was perfect 🤣
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Yeah lol. Such statements(what Kework said) or hinting at change in approach won't have happened under Pat. It would be incredibly dumb if it happens. But there's a small angle that some are getting at that Intel throughout decades spends incredible amounts of resources on Open source which obviously also benefits itself very largely along with the community and others but without getting similar amounts of contributions and efforts from some other Tech corporations.
Whatever the thinking might be Intel shouldn't change its attitude towards Open Source largely, it benefits the ecosystem and themselves as well to a great extent. Going away from Open Source approach might in fact be counterproductive to many of their own ecosystem progress and adoption.
 
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Intel needs to remember that stopping their contributions to x86-64 efficiency and performance in Linux will just leave more room for ARM to make headway in penetrating the DC/HPC/retail markets. They have very little ARM presence as a portion of revenues, so they aren't going to benefit from that shift in any way. At least AMD seems to be hedging or at least expanding in that direction with Soundwave...
 
LightningZ71 said:
Intel needs to remember that stopping their contributions to x86-64 efficiency and performance in Linux will just leave more room for ARM to make headway in penetrating the DC/HPC/retail markets. They have very little ARM presence as a portion of revenues, so they aren't going to benefit from that shift in any way. At least AMD seems to be hedging or at least expanding in that direction with Soundwave...
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Exactly. The war is (Intel+AMD) vs ARM. What helps AMD helps Intel and vise versa. Far too many people here falsely think the war is Intel vs AMD.
 
dullard said:
Exactly. The war is (Intel+AMD) vs ARM. What helps AMD helps Intel and vise versa. Far too many people here falsely think the war is Intel vs AMD.
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Intel's issue is a case of being extremely short sighted with respect to short term gains to enhance shareholder value. I get that they have gutted their OSS team, but they can't just focus on base compatibility and any fixes that enhance Intel products more than AMD products. Once x86 sheds a customer to ARM, that customer is likely gone for good as they will have had to make their platforms fully portable to complete such a migration, and with that level of portability, they are VERY unlikely to ever walk back into a walled garden like x86 again.
 
LightningZ71 said:
Intel's issue is a case of being extremely short sighted with respect to short term gains to enhance shareholder value. I get that they have gutted their OSS team, but they can't just focus on base compatibility and any fixes that enhance Intel products more than AMD products. Once x86 sheds a customer to ARM, that customer is likely gone for good as they will have had to make their platforms fully portable to complete such a migration, and with that level of portability, they are VERY unlikely to ever walk back into a walled garden like x86 again.
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When has Intel been not Short sided in last 2 decades it has f*****d up again and again and i don't like this aspect of LBT Intel's OSS contribution has generated many good stuff over the years.
 
regen1 said:

Intel Xeon 6 Performance Feature Benchmarks: Latency Optimized Mode Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com www.phoronix.com
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This is something I have been speculating for some time. Intel's new architecture seems to be choked by latency. When you free up the latency, it becomes less efficient; however, you gain a good bit of performance.
On a geo mean basis the performance went up by 17% with the Latency Optimized Mode to make for a net win in performance and power efficiency.
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At lower clocks (which would be the norm in high count core implementations), 18A + lower latency may prove to be a potent combination for Intel's next gen NVL class.
 
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