Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[moinmoin]

So the best you can expect from big corporations is when they are suffering, because they have no choice.

What do you mean? Intel is suffering, and all their support is crashing like a house of cards while some lead mumble about not wanting to support competition while cutting their own nose to spite them.

 

[DavidC1]

What do you mean? Intel is suffering, and all their support is crashing like a house of cards while some lead mumble about not wanting to support competition while cutting their own nose to spite them.

So they could go a lot lower before they reach a "humbled" state. Like AMD did right before Zen. But muh National Security....

 

[LightningZ71]

Intel did a lot of this to themselves. A quick search online shows multiple articles on their H1B visa abuse in the past, the struggles that came from having people in positions that they had no business being in, then the rounds of layoffs from their financials suffering from having lost their edge due to their own decisions in the late teens and COVID era.

They get no sympathy from me, and will be ruthless in attempting to survive.

 

[Joe NYC]

That's actually the part that makes this whole development even more puzzling.

Intel could have moved a lot of effort into a "make x86 great" pool shared with AMD. What they did though is layoffs without replacements (orphaning significant chucks of code) and insist that future efforts need to help only Intel.

All while the problem is that Intel's current hardware implementation simply is worse than AMD's, but that can change again. Which is what Intel should strive for, not holding back open source support for x86 standards (which Intel is setting).

It also just happens that all of the server CPU share losses of x86 to Arm came at expense of Intel.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel server stuff is WAYYYY too expensive. It's not just Intel that benefits from that, or used to benefit. Their partners basically exploit their customers into paying and paying for extended support. Our old Ivy Bridge servers lost support from Dell after three years because our company refused to pay the exorbitant support fees they wanted. Then we paid over $7000 for a Cascade Lake 6248R HP server when we should have been offered a Sapphire Rapids server for that price. Intel did this to themselves. Sure, you can abuse your monopoly position for a few years or decades even but eventually, you pay for it when those you wrong return the favor.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@igor_kavinski Depending on the timeline of that purchase, Sapphire Rapids might not have been available at any price.

 

[igor_kavinski]

@igor_kavinski Depending on the timeline of that purchase, Sapphire Rapids might not have been available at any price.

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SRapids was released a year prior to that.

 

[DrMrLordX]

SRapids was released a year prior to that.

Okay then that just sucks to get Cascade Lake at that point. Especially given the mitigations that need to be used on a production Cascade Lake system.

 

[regen1]

Intel Removing AMX-TRANSPOSE From The GCC Compiler - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

One year ago updated Intel documentation noted AMX-TRANSPOSE as one of the new ISA additions for Diamond Rapids. But in updated Intel architecture documentation last month, it oddly removed all references to AMX-TRANSPOSE.

 

[511]

It's a shrink with a pile of cache and a new core.
that's atrocious.

What's atrocious is the mem bandwidth it has available and the botched saga of poor L3 continuez.

 

[511]

Intel did a lot of this to themselves. A quick search online shows multiple articles on their H1B visa abuse in the past, the struggles that came from having people in positions that they had no business being in, then the rounds of layoffs from their financials suffering from having lost their edge due to their own decisions in the late teens and COVID era.

They get no sympathy from me, and will be ruthless in attempting to survive.

This Intel killed themselves no other company was capable of killing them besides themselves.

 

[Thunder 57]

Intel did a lot of this to themselves. A quick search online shows multiple articles on their H1B visa abuse in the past, the struggles that came from having people in positions that they had no business being in, then the rounds of layoffs from their financials suffering from having lost their edge due to their own decisions in the late teens and COVID era.

They get no sympathy from me, and will be ruthless in attempting to survive.

That H1B abuse may finally be coming to an end, or at least vastly reduced.

 

[regen1]

Updated Intel Patches For Cache Aware Scheduling Net A 44% Win For AMD EPYC - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

 

[511]

Updated Intel Patches For Cache Aware Scheduling Net A 44% Win For AMD EPYC - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Timing was perfect 🤣

 

[regen1]

Timing was perfect 🤣

Yeah lol. Such statements(what Kework said) or hinting at change in approach won't have happened under Pat. It would be incredibly dumb if it happens. But there's a small angle that some are getting at that Intel throughout decades spends incredible amounts of resources on Open source which obviously also benefits itself very largely along with the community and others but without getting similar amounts of contributions and efforts from some other Tech corporations.
Whatever the thinking might be Intel shouldn't change its attitude towards Open Source largely, it benefits the ecosystem and themselves as well to a great extent. Going away from Open Source approach might in fact be counterproductive to many of their own ecosystem progress and adoption.

 

[LightningZ71]

Intel needs to remember that stopping their contributions to x86-64 efficiency and performance in Linux will just leave more room for ARM to make headway in penetrating the DC/HPC/retail markets. They have very little ARM presence as a portion of revenues, so they aren't going to benefit from that shift in any way. At least AMD seems to be hedging or at least expanding in that direction with Soundwave...

 

[dullard]

Intel needs to remember that stopping their contributions to x86-64 efficiency and performance in Linux will just leave more room for ARM to make headway in penetrating the DC/HPC/retail markets. They have very little ARM presence as a portion of revenues, so they aren't going to benefit from that shift in any way. At least AMD seems to be hedging or at least expanding in that direction with Soundwave...

Exactly. The war is (Intel+AMD) vs ARM. What helps AMD helps Intel and vise versa. Far too many people here falsely think the war is Intel vs AMD.

 

[coercitiv]

Timing was perfect 🤣

I laughed a bit when I saw this news. Folks on reddit also note that the title is somewhat misleading, a 44% reduction in execution time means almost 80% win in performance.

 

[LightningZ71]

Exactly. The war is (Intel+AMD) vs ARM. What helps AMD helps Intel and vise versa. Far too many people here falsely think the war is Intel vs AMD.

Intel's issue is a case of being extremely short sighted with respect to short term gains to enhance shareholder value. I get that they have gutted their OSS team, but they can't just focus on base compatibility and any fixes that enhance Intel products more than AMD products. Once x86 sheds a customer to ARM, that customer is likely gone for good as they will have had to make their platforms fully portable to complete such a migration, and with that level of portability, they are VERY unlikely to ever walk back into a walled garden like x86 again.

 

[511]

Intel's issue is a case of being extremely short sighted with respect to short term gains to enhance shareholder value. I get that they have gutted their OSS team, but they can't just focus on base compatibility and any fixes that enhance Intel products more than AMD products. Once x86 sheds a customer to ARM, that customer is likely gone for good as they will have had to make their platforms fully portable to complete such a migration, and with that level of portability, they are VERY unlikely to ever walk back into a walled garden like x86 again.

When has Intel been not Short sided in last 2 decades it has f*****d up again and again and i don't like this aspect of LBT Intel's OSS contribution has generated many good stuff over the years.