If 9/11 2.0 happens, would you say Torture is ok?

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom
JohnOfSheffield you are causing me physical pain.

Not yet.

Ouch... stop you are hurting me.

Eventually, you will get hurt, the time or the place isn't something i know of, but i know you will get hurt.

You see, eventually you'll have to fend for yourself in real life and that isn't something twats like you can do.

Eventually you will realise that if we take it to torture, we have justified our enemy. It's too late to turn back time now, why do you think 1100 Talibans have become well over 30K or Al Quaida supporters have gained to hundreds of thousands worldwide?

If you feed your enemy, it will grow.

Haven't you heard? People like budmantom here want an enemy to hate and kill. Deep down, he really just wants to start more shit with people, he's a troll IRL and he's a troll on this forum. Go little neo-con, go!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom
JohnOfSheffield you are causing me physical pain.

Not yet.

Ouch... stop you are hurting me.

Eventually, you will get hurt, the time or the place isn't something i know of, but i know you will get hurt.

You see, eventually you'll have to fend for yourself in real life and that isn't something twats like you can do.

Eventually you will realise that if we take it to torture, we have justified our enemy. It's too late to turn back time now, why do you think 1100 Talibans have become well over 30K or Al Quaida supporters have gained to hundreds of thousands worldwide?

If you feed your enemy, it will grow.

Haven't you heard? People like budmantom here want an enemy to hate and kill. Deep down, he really just wants to start more shit with people, he's a troll IRL and he's a troll on this forum. Go little neo-con, go!

I know i shouldn't let him irritate me, but he does, like a little fly buzzing around.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Fine sentiments but I don't think this is the way it's worked throughout history. Most people are cowed by their leaders. Just look at how the herd reacted in the u.s. 2001 - 2005.

Not everyone knows this - or anything else you or I say.

What you say is true, and in these cases it is best to find the leaders and kill them either through direct action such as bombing, or indirectly such as destroying or poisoning all water sources. For example, if there is information that a leader is in a particular area, it is best to bomb it continuously to weaken the morale of the population, and then poison the water sources to kill off any remaining survivors. Depending on the location, the poison used should not be a persistent one, because of future logistical concerns. Once the population sees their leadership on the run, they too will realize the futility of war. Of course, this can only be done when one side is militarily superior to the other. If both sides are equally matched, then all bets are off, and the most brutal will come out on top. Those who are weak will be destroyed.

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: Mackie2k
Inspired by all the Torture threads....

I'm wondering if all the people saying Torture is wrong, would still think that if say Terroritsts attacked and killed 10,000 Americans?

I'm not saying Torture is right or wrong, just a necessary evil when you are dealing with people who'd rather die than let you live.

Do you believe torture actually works on people who would rather die than let you live? People who would rather die than give you any bit of info that would help you defeat them? I dont.
It may work a little on the thugs off the street the brains hired to do some dirty work, and we may get some piddly pieces of info from these guys (that likely could have been found by other means), but it wont work on the guys who know what we really want to know. As if they have their own type of code of conduct, they will die before they help us in any meaningful way.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Fine sentiments but I don't think this is the way it's worked throughout history. Most people are cowed by their leaders. Just look at how the herd reacted in the u.s. 2001 - 2005.

Not everyone knows this - or anything else you or I say.

What you say is true, and in these cases it is best to find the leaders and kill them either through direct action such as bombing, or indirectly such as destroying or poisoning all water sources. For example, if there is information that a leader is in a particular area, it is best to bomb it continuously to weaken the morale of the population, and then poison the water sources to kill off any remaining survivors. Depending on the location, the poison used should not be a persistent one, because of future logistical concerns. Once the population sees their leadership on the run, they too will realize the futility of war. Of course, this can only be done when one side is militarily superior to the other. If both sides are equally matched, then all bets are off, and the most brutal will come out on top. Those who are weak will be destroyed.

I'd like to sign up for your newsletter and view pictures of burning babies, etc.

This is getting creepy. Where are you going with all of this?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

Originally posted by: Mackie2k
Inspired by all the Torture threads....

I'm wondering if all the people saying Torture is wrong, would still think that if say Terroritsts attacked and killed 10,000 Americans?

I'm not saying Torture is right or wrong, just a necessary evil when you are dealing with people who'd rather die than let you live.

Do you believe torture actually works on people who would rather die than let you live? People who would rather die than give you any bit of info that would help you defeat them? I dont.
It may work a little on the thugs off the street the brains hired to do some dirty work, and we may get some piddly pieces of info from these guys (that likely could have been found by other means), but it wont work on the guys who know what we really want to know. As if they have their own type of code of conduct, they will die before they help us in any meaningful way.

Aye, these are people who blow themselves up in the middle of their own people just to get someone... Torturing them?

Yeah, well... no.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Fine sentiments but I don't think this is the way it's worked throughout history. Most people are cowed by their leaders. Just look at how the herd reacted in the u.s. 2001 - 2005.

Not everyone knows this - or anything else you or I say.

What you say is true, and in these cases it is best to find the leaders and kill them either through direct action such as bombing, or indirectly such as destroying or poisoning all water sources. For example, if there is information that a leader is in a particular area, it is best to bomb it continuously to weaken the morale of the population, and then poison the water sources to kill off any remaining survivors. Depending on the location, the poison used should not be a persistent one, because of future logistical concerns. Once the population sees their leadership on the run, they too will realize the futility of war. Of course, this can only be done when one side is militarily superior to the other. If both sides are equally matched, then all bets are off, and the most brutal will come out on top. Those who are weak will be destroyed.

I'd like to sign up for your newsletter and view pictures of burning babies, etc.

This is getting creepy. Where are you going with all of this?

Straight to hell! Everyone knows that.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

I'd like to sign up for your newsletter and view pictures of burning babies, etc.

This is getting creepy. Where are you going with all of this?

Where am I going? To victory of course. These strategies I have been detailing have been in use for centuries. All of the great conquers used them. We should as well.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: seemingly random

I'd like to sign up for your newsletter and view pictures of burning babies, etc.

This is getting creepy. Where are you going with all of this?

Where am I going? To victory of course. These strategies I have been detailing have been in use for centuries. All of the great conquers used them. We should as well.

lol

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: seemingly random

I'd like to sign up for your newsletter and view pictures of burning babies, etc.

This is getting creepy. Where are you going with all of this?

Where am I going? To victory of course. These strategies I have been detailing have been in use for centuries. All of the great conquers used them. We should as well.

Ok. Let me know when you're there.

 

[fskimospy]

There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Xellos2099

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Mackie2k
Inspired by all the Torture threads....

I'm wondering if all the people saying Torture is wrong, would still think that if say Terroritsts attacked and killed 10,000 Americans?

I'm not saying Torture is right or wrong, just a necessary evil when you are dealing with people who'd rather die than let you live.

If we want to turn into our enemy, to behave like our enemy then i wouldn't fight for either side but combat both.

I'm willing to bet you that if you ask ANYONE here or anywhere else what drives you they will all reply the same.

It's because we are right and the enemy is wrong, now how the FUCK would you distinguish between right and wrong if we behave the same way?

I wouldn't have a problem killing every last one of the torturers on either side just because i would know i was right and they were wrong.

Without that, what the fuck would i be fighting for?

We fought for the right to live peacefully without building blowing up around us, sound simple enough for you?

YOU did?

No, son, little child of enormous advantages, what you did was born in the country you were born in where people before you have used torture, slavery and blowing up civilians as a means to an end.

All while wiping out the majority of the populace that was there.

Right now i'm in Afghanistan, tell me why i should fight the Taliban if we're going to act like they do? (well not that bad, considering what they do the Nazis gas showers were luxury).

HOW do you discern who are your enemy, lemme guess, it's all that are not exactly like you, right?

Are you fucked up in your mind on your own or were you abused as a child?

Give me a break on this right and wrong crap. You are telling me as a soldier, you are not gonna torture your enemy when that can give you valuable info which can save yours and your comrade's life? And you are not gonna do it when it can mean the difference between winning the war and losing the war? And as a soldier, you should know intel is one of the key factor in winning the war, and you are telling me you would rather be a nice guy then getting all the intel you can get?

Torture happens in any freaking war, people do it not because they are sadistic, but they do it to gain an upper hand to win the war. Yeah this war on terror is very different from the convention war, but it doesn't mean torture is not applicable or is wrong here. The problem is, like other aspect of a unconventional warfare, is that it's tougher to clearly identify the enemy. But that doesn't mean torture is wrong, it only mean people responsible for capturing and bring enemy combatant in for questioning need to do a better job to ensure they get the right person.

This much is clear to me, you have never EVER even BEEN in a threatening situation.

I stand by my word, you may not like it but if i give up that, then what good am i?

In a war, torture will happen and the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF IT is because of sadistic people, don't believe me? Ask the Nazi guards who were convicted of it or the American guards that were convicted of it.

We get our intel on the ground, we have singlehandedly destroyed over 60 camps, the lame arsed twats who used torture have destroyed what? ZERO, you tell me if i'm wrong when i say that infiltration and special forces are better for this job that sadistic twats, because you don't torture anyone without being a sadist PERIOD.

Riddle me that you stupid piece of shit.

"intel" BULLSHEIT! The only intel we have ever gotten has been false, do you think it's strange that MI6 and CIA got this information from "unknown sources" that later proved to be false, come the FUCK on, even a retard like you can add two and two together. How about the Fallujah camp? You know the one that did not exist?

I THINK i know this shit better than you ever will in your pathetic little life of greyscales, in my life it's black or white, it's wrong or it's right, anyone who ever tries to climb in between is just fooling himself.

Heh, you wanna point fingers at CIA/M16? How many innocent Iraqis you supposedly righteous ground people killed? You might wanna check with Abeer Qassim al-Janabi and see what happened to her. You think American and British never tortured a German in WW2 to get info? You are either naive or stupid. Maybe you grunt have the luxury of being black and white, right or wrong. But people who are charged with the life of millions and the survival of a country don't have that luxury. Make no mistake, war is ugly and there is never any honor in a war. But if you choose to enter a war, it is kill or get killed, what else do you think the war is all about? white knight in shining armor and flowers from civilian to greet you who freed them? You do what you have to do to win the war period. Torturing enemy to get info have been in every single war since the beginning of time. To be a liberal and say hey I wanna fight a war the clean/honorable way, you might as well put away your guns and wave olive branches at ur enemy.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

Bored, I guess.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: rchiu

To be a liberal and say hey I wanna fight a war the clean/honorable way, you might as well put away your guns and wave olive branches at ur enemy.

And if you're an inhuman, perverted, immoral asshole like you, you've already lost because you have become the evil you claim you want to defeat. :|

 

[GoPackGo]

Good, evil....its all a matter of POV.

Its all about sides.

My side, your side. you are my enemy. you are my friend....those who see as evil seems themselves as good and us as evil.

 

[dualsmp]

If 9/11 2.0 happens, would you say Torture is ok?
....to prevent 9/11 3.0.

No, torture is sadistic and accomplishes nothing. Despite the Hollywood portrayal of terrorists being tortured and confessing where the nuke is hidden, it's simply not applicable to the real world... Terrorists are not going to tell if they really want to destroy something, and if the supposed guilty parties are innocent they will just give a false confession to whatever the torturers want to hear, so back to square one.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: rchiu

Give me a break on this right and wrong crap. You are telling me as a soldier, you are not gonna torture your enemy when that can give you valuable info which can save yours and your comrade's life? And you are not gonna do it when it can mean the difference between winning the war and losing the war? And as a soldier, you should know intel is one of the key factor in winning the war, and you are telling me you would rather be a nice guy then getting all the intel you can get?

Torture happens in any freaking war, people do it not because they are sadistic, but they do it to gain an upper hand to win the war. Yeah this war on terror is very different from the convention war, but it doesn't mean torture is not applicable or is wrong here. The problem is, like other aspect of a unconventional warfare, is that it's tougher to clearly identify the enemy. But that doesn't mean torture is wrong, it only mean people responsible for capturing and bring enemy combatant in for questioning need to do a better job to ensure they get the right person.

I've been saying this for years. In war, the enemy must know pain, suffering, and death. In that order. To win wars we must cast aside civility, and turn ourselves into killers, because that is the object of war. To slaughter the enemy. Why do you think Japan surrendered in WW2? It's because they were slaughtered by the thousands. The saw the imminent destruction of their entire culture. They were about to be erased from this earth. They were given the choice of life or death. They chose wisely. All of our enemies must be given this choice. They must come face to face with the destruction of everything they love. They must understand they have no chance of victory. Everyone knows this.

You have absolutely NO FREAKING CLUE about what you are talking about.

Are you like 12 years old? REad some history books and educate yourself before posting such utter fantasy BS like what you wrote above. You whole statement is patently false.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

Can I pick both options?

He's both a troll and colossally stupid.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: rchiu

To be a liberal and say hey I wanna fight a war the clean/honorable way, you might as well put away your guns and wave olive branches at ur enemy.

And if you're an inhuman, perverted, immoral asshole like you, you've already lost because you have become the evil you claim you want to defeat. :|

You don't wanna be inhuman, perverted, immoral, don't start the f'ing war. If you get into one, there better be a good reason and something very value is at stake, something like your survival and not bs like good and evil. And if the reason is good enough and the thing at stake is precious enough, you better be doing everything you can do win the war and not sitting on the side and bad mouthing/get in the way of the very people that try to win the war for you.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom
JohnOfSheffield you are causing me physical pain.

Not yet.

Ouch... stop you are hurting me.

Eventually, you will get hurt, the time or the place isn't something i know of, but i know you will get hurt.

You see, eventually you'll have to fend for yourself in real life and that isn't something twats like you can do.

Eventually you will realise that if we take it to torture, we have justified our enemy. It's too late to turn back time now, why do you think 1100 Talibans have become well over 30K or Al Quaida supporters have gained to hundreds of thousands worldwide?

If you feed your enemy, it will grow.

Because we talk too much and do too little.

We have an extremely effective army that has been neutered by our politicians.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom
JohnOfSheffield you are causing me physical pain.

Not yet.

Ouch... stop you are hurting me.

Eventually, you will get hurt, the time or the place isn't something i know of, but i know you will get hurt.

You see, eventually you'll have to fend for yourself in real life and that isn't something twats like you can do.

Eventually you will realise that if we take it to torture, we have justified our enemy. It's too late to turn back time now, why do you think 1100 Talibans have become well over 30K or Al Quaida supporters have gained to hundreds of thousands worldwide?

If you feed your enemy, it will grow.

Haven't you heard? People like budmantom here want an enemy to hate and kill. Deep down, he really just wants to start more shit with people, he's a troll IRL and he's a troll on this forum. Go little neo-con, go!

It's Mr. Anti-God and Anti-country

 

[ericgomes]

The only problem with torture is that we live in the United States (I'm assuming). The United States is a country that tries to be a rolemodel for other countries. We try to set examples so that we're hence, doing the "proper" or "appropriate" thing. My opinion? I believe an eye for an eye. If I were president, I'd introduce torture for many crimes and capital punishments.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: ericgomes
The only problem with torture is that we live in the United States (I'm assuming). The United States is a country that tries to be a rolemodel for other countries. We try to set examples so that we're hence, doing the "proper" or "appropriate" thing. My opinion? I believe an eye for an eye. If I were president, I'd introduce torture for many crimes and capital punishments.

I support torture as a way to obtain the intel necessary in any war, like this war on terror. It shouldn't be used as crimes and punishment. When you capture a high level enemy official whom you know have valuable info that will save your soldier's/citizen's life, you better do whatever necessary to get that info out of him. If not, you are not doing your job.

But to aimlessly torture everyone you capture is both useless and counter productive. In other word, torture in a war has its place, but it depends on how it is done. To write off torture totally becasue some sissy liberal wanna be good and just in a war where the only aim of your enemy is to kill you is not only dumb, but dangerous as you put your nation's, your people's safety as risk

 

[bamacre]

We need to start blaming policies rather than people and parties. Otherwise, we'll only be divided, and we'll end up still trying to fight the symptoms rather than the disease. Because the truth is, the foreign policies of both parties need changing. It's basically the same policy. We stick our nose in other peoples' business, we play world policeman, yet we are biased with our own self-interests. We "spread democracy" here, then support dictators there. We have a thousand military installations in over 100 different countries. We have a lot of weight to throw around, and we do. Have we done some good? You bet. But we've made a heck of a lot of mistakes, and our actions have led to the deaths of a lot of people. Whether it be a total invasion, or economic sanctions, we fuel a lot of hatred toward us. Some of it rational, some irrational. Some violent, some not. But how we respond to it is of importance. We can try to trade away our freedoms in attempt to make us more secure, or we can keep our freedoms, fight the disease instead of the symptoms, and change our ways when it comes to foreign policy.

 

[First]

Torture, even in extreme cases, is never "OK" or justified. There are probably some "practicalities" of torture in extremely limited circumstances, of course the moral implications are beyond horrid and frankly downright inhuman. For all intents and purposes, torture can be argued as the pivotal difference that separates civilized people from terrorists.