If 9/11 2.0 happens, would you say Torture is ok?

[ericgomes]

There are a lot of people who won't budge and give you an answer either. I think it's absolutely necessary in some cases. In your case, I agree torture by death without obtaining any valuable information, especially during warfare or another difficult scenario, is pointless. However, an eye for an eye is a legitimate approach. Someone steals a piece of food willingly. Why not chop that persons hand off? Simple things- Guarenteed crime wouldn't be as bad as it is today. It's a terrible way to look at things and we're not a nation becoming of that so it really doesn't matter.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: ericgomes
There are a lot of people who won't budge and give you an answer either. I think it's absolutely necessary in some cases. In your case, I agree torture by death without obtaining any valuable information, especially during warfare or another difficult scenario, is pointless. However, an eye for an eye is a legitimate approach. Someone steals a piece of food willingly. Why not chop that persons hand off? Simple things- Guarenteed crime wouldn't be as bad as it is today. It's a terrible way to look at things and we're not a nation becoming of that so it really doesn't matter.

We have become a nation of weaklings, constantly pandering to fools. This is why crime is out of control. There is no discipline. People in the US feel that they can get away with anything. They must be made to understand that they cannot. The way to do this is through harsh punishment. People will live in fear of punishment, and very few will commit crimes. Those that do will be an example to the rest. Everyone knows this.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: rchiu

I support torture as a way to obtain the intel necessary in any war, like this war on terror. It shouldn't be used as crimes and punishment. When you capture a high level enemy official whom you know have valuable info that will save your soldier's/citizen's life, you better do whatever necessary to get that info out of him. If not, you are not doing your job.

But to aimlessly torture everyone you capture is both useless and counter productive. In other word, torture in a war has its place, but it depends on how it is done. To write off torture totally becasue some sissy liberal wanna be good and just in a war where the only aim of your enemy is to kill you is not only dumb, but dangerous as you put your nation's, your people's safety as risk

This is truth. Everyone must read and understand this post. Everyone.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat


You have absolutely NO FREAKING CLUE about what you are talking about.

Are you like 12 years old? REad some history books and educate yourself before posting such utter fantasy BS like what you wrote above. You whole statement is patently false.

No, it is you GarfieldtheCat, who has no clue. It seems your education is based on silly Disney films. I suggest you take your own advice and read some real history books, not the foolish pop up ones you've been playing with. You know nothing of history. Nothing at all.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

There is a third option. I am correct. This should be obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the ways of war.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

There is a third option. I am correct. This should be obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the ways of war.

No, anyone with the knowledge of the ways of war would understand asymmetrical warfare and realize why you were a retard.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
No, anyone with the knowledge of the ways of war would understand asymmetrical warfare and realize why you were a retard.

Is that so? Why don't you describe why my tactics are flawed then? Let's see what you know about war.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

There is a third option. I am correct. This should be obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the ways of war.

No, anyone with the knowledge of the ways of war would understand asymmetrical warfare and realize why you were a retard.

People like theflyingpig and rchiu have HOURS upon HOURS of Counterstrike experience, and you dare mock their knowledge?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

There is a third option. I am correct. This should be obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the ways of war.

No, anyone with the knowledge of the ways of war would understand asymmetrical warfare and realize why you were a retard.

People like theflyingpig and rchiu have HOURS upon HOURS of Counterstrike experience, and you dare mock their knowledge?

Heh, I don't but you and eskimospy along with Obama must have accumulated bunch of Counterstrike experience to think you know more about asymmetrical warfare then CIA and interfere with how they conduct their business.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: rchiu

I support torture as a way to obtain the intel necessary in any war, like this war on terror. It shouldn't be used as crimes and punishment. When you capture a high level enemy official whom you know have valuable info that will save your soldier's/citizen's life, you better do whatever necessary to get that info out of him. If not, you are not doing your job.

But to aimlessly torture everyone you capture is both useless and counter productive. In other word, torture in a war has its place, but it depends on how it is done. To write off torture totally becasue some sissy liberal wanna be good and just in a war where the only aim of your enemy is to kill you is not only dumb, but dangerous as you put your nation's, your people's safety as risk

Everyone must read and understand this post. Everyone.

So they can understand that some people haven't mentally or socially advanced in 2000 years of history? I agree. Thanks for pointing this out.

Funny how the some on the right "evolved" on this issue, despite disputing evolution.

1. We don't torture, we shouldn't torture, waterboarding isn't torture.
2. Waterboarding isn't torture, but even if it were, it was necessary.
3. We need to torture.

Reagan is spinning in his grave. And I triple dog dare both of you pansies to call any Israeli a "sissy liberal" for rejecting torture as inhuman and counterproductive. But be sure to let me know what hospital you'll be recovering at so I can send you flowers.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat


You have absolutely NO FREAKING CLUE about what you are talking about.

Are you like 12 years old? REad some history books and educate yourself before posting such utter fantasy BS like what you wrote above. You whole statement is patently false.

No, it is you GarfieldtheCat, who has no clue. It seems your education is based on silly Disney films. I suggest you take your own advice and read some real history books, not the foolish pop up ones you've been playing with. You know nothing of history. Nothing at all.

Seeing how you are about a 12-year old's intellect, I don't think i will worry about what I read. I can pretty much guarantee that I've read more books then you.

Anyoen want to take a vote that this is winnar111 in another disguise? Same BS, same lack of logic and comprehension.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: rchiu

I support torture as a way to obtain the intel necessary in any war, like this war on terror. It shouldn't be used as crimes and punishment. When you capture a high level enemy official whom you know have valuable info that will save your soldier's/citizen's life, you better do whatever necessary to get that info out of him. If not, you are not doing your job.

But to aimlessly torture everyone you capture is both useless and counter productive. In other word, torture in a war has its place, but it depends on how it is done. To write off torture totally becasue some sissy liberal wanna be good and just in a war where the only aim of your enemy is to kill you is not only dumb, but dangerous as you put your nation's, your people's safety as risk

Everyone must read and understand this post. Everyone.

So they can understand that some people haven't mentally or socially advanced in 2000 years of history? I agree. Thanks for pointing this out.

Funny how the some on the right "evolved" on this issue, despite disputing evolution.

1. We don't torture, we shouldn't torture, waterboarding isn't torture.
2. Waterboarding isn't torture, but even if it were, it was necessary.
3. We need to torture.

Reagan is spinning in his grave. And I triple dog dare both of you pansies to call any Israeli a "sissy liberal" for rejecting torture as inhuman and counterproductive. But be sure to let me know what hospital you'll be recovering at so I can send you flowers.

Nope, Israels isn't a sissy liberal, it's you sissy liberal who actually think Israeli when facing life and death won't use torture. Israel admits torture

 

[shadow9d9]

Want to stop terrorism? Stop propping up dictators in the ME and stop interfering in their affairs.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: rchiu

I support torture as a way to obtain the intel necessary in any war, like this war on terror. It shouldn't be used as crimes and punishment. When you capture a high level enemy official whom you know have valuable info that will save your soldier's/citizen's life, you better do whatever necessary to get that info out of him. If not, you are not doing your job.

But to aimlessly torture everyone you capture is both useless and counter productive. In other word, torture in a war has its place, but it depends on how it is done. To write off torture totally becasue some sissy liberal wanna be good and just in a war where the only aim of your enemy is to kill you is not only dumb, but dangerous as you put your nation's, your people's safety as risk

Everyone must read and understand this post. Everyone.

So they can understand that some people haven't mentally or socially advanced in 2000 years of history? I agree. Thanks for pointing this out.

Funny how the some on the right "evolved" on this issue, despite disputing evolution.

1. We don't torture, we shouldn't torture, waterboarding isn't torture.
2. Waterboarding isn't torture, but even if it were, it was necessary.
3. We need to torture.

Reagan is spinning in his grave. And I triple dog dare both of you pansies to call any Israeli a "sissy liberal" for rejecting torture as inhuman and counterproductive. But be sure to let me know what hospital you'll be recovering at so I can send you flowers.

Nope, Israels isn't a sissy liberal, it's you sissy liberal who actually think Israeli when facing life and death won't use torture. Israel admits torture

So Reagan and McCain are sissy liberals. And all the life long interrogators in our armed forces who say torture is inhumane and counterproductive are sissy liberals. You're a very confused person.

No one is arguing whether or not torture happens. Israel faced the torture question, and it has answered in the negative.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

There is a third option. I am correct. This should be obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the ways of war.

No, anyone with the knowledge of the ways of war would understand asymmetrical warfare and realize why you were a retard.

Ha! Couldn't resist, could you...

 

[seemingly random]

If torture is such a useful tool, it should have been used on our beloved attorney general alberto gonzales.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: eskimospy
There are only two options here. Either theflyingpig is trolling you all, in which case you shouldn't respond, or he's so colossally stupid as to believe the dumb shit he is writing, in which case there's no point in responding. He's talking like a 6th grader talks about the world and you're trying to reason with him. Why?

There is a third option. I am correct. This should be obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the ways of war.

No, anyone with the knowledge of the ways of war would understand asymmetrical warfare and realize why you were a retard.

Ha! Couldn't resist, could you...

You got me... hahaha.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

People like theflyingpig and rchiu have HOURS upon HOURS of Counterstrike experience, and you dare mock their knowledge?

Heh, I don't but you and eskimospy along with Obama must have accumulated bunch of Counterstrike experience to think you know more about asymmetrical warfare then CIA and interfere with how they conduct their business.

Golly, why would someone in charge of the CIA have the gall to interfere with how they conduct their business? It's almost like he's their boss or something.

Obama has to deal with a far larger and far more complicated world than the CIA does, where he has to deal with the consequences of their actions. It's the same thing we're trying to get you guys to understand. Actions have consequences. (I won't get into the substantial disagreement within the current and former intel community about whether or not torture is even useful.)

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom
JohnOfSheffield you are causing me physical pain.

Not yet.

Ouch... stop you are hurting me.

Eventually, you will get hurt, the time or the place isn't something i know of, but i know you will get hurt.

You see, eventually you'll have to fend for yourself in real life and that isn't something twats like you can do.

Eventually you will realise that if we take it to torture, we have justified our enemy. It's too late to turn back time now, why do you think 1100 Talibans have become well over 30K or Al Quaida supporters have gained to hundreds of thousands worldwide?

If you feed your enemy, it will grow.

Haven't you heard? People like budmantom here want an enemy to hate and kill. Deep down, he really just wants to start more shit with people, he's a troll IRL and he's a troll on this forum. Go little neo-con, go!

It's Mr. Anti-God and Anti-country

Do you think that god agrees with torture..and if god does..what kind of god is it that created a world where torture is even an option?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Xellos2099

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Mackie2k
Inspired by all the Torture threads....

I'm wondering if all the people saying Torture is wrong, would still think that if say Terroritsts attacked and killed 10,000 Americans?

I'm not saying Torture is right or wrong, just a necessary evil when you are dealing with people who'd rather die than let you live.

If we want to turn into our enemy, to behave like our enemy then i wouldn't fight for either side but combat both.

I'm willing to bet you that if you ask ANYONE here or anywhere else what drives you they will all reply the same.

It's because we are right and the enemy is wrong, now how the FUCK would you distinguish between right and wrong if we behave the same way?

I wouldn't have a problem killing every last one of the torturers on either side just because i would know i was right and they were wrong.

Without that, what the fuck would i be fighting for?

We fought for the right to live peacefully without building blowing up around us, sound simple enough for you?

YOU did?

No, son, little child of enormous advantages, what you did was born in the country you were born in where people before you have used torture, slavery and blowing up civilians as a means to an end.

All while wiping out the majority of the populace that was there.

Right now i'm in Afghanistan, tell me why i should fight the Taliban if we're going to act like they do? (well not that bad, considering what they do the Nazis gas showers were luxury).

HOW do you discern who are your enemy, lemme guess, it's all that are not exactly like you, right?

Are you fucked up in your mind on your own or were you abused as a child?

Give me a break on this right and wrong crap. You are telling me as a soldier, you are not gonna torture your enemy when that can give you valuable info which can save yours and your comrade's life? And you are not gonna do it when it can mean the difference between winning the war and losing the war? And as a soldier, you should know intel is one of the key factor in winning the war, and you are telling me you would rather be a nice guy then getting all the intel you can get?

Torture happens in any freaking war, people do it not because they are sadistic, but they do it to gain an upper hand to win the war. Yeah this war on terror is very different from the convention war, but it doesn't mean torture is not applicable or is wrong here. The problem is, like other aspect of a unconventional warfare, is that it's tougher to clearly identify the enemy. But that doesn't mean torture is wrong, it only mean people responsible for capturing and bring enemy combatant in for questioning need to do a better job to ensure they get the right person.

This much is clear to me, you have never EVER even BEEN in a threatening situation.

I stand by my word, you may not like it but if i give up that, then what good am i?

In a war, torture will happen and the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF IT is because of sadistic people, don't believe me? Ask the Nazi guards who were convicted of it or the American guards that were convicted of it.

We get our intel on the ground, we have singlehandedly destroyed over 60 camps, the lame arsed twats who used torture have destroyed what? ZERO, you tell me if i'm wrong when i say that infiltration and special forces are better for this job that sadistic twats, because you don't torture anyone without being a sadist PERIOD.

Riddle me that you stupid piece of shit.

"intel" BULLSHEIT! The only intel we have ever gotten has been false, do you think it's strange that MI6 and CIA got this information from "unknown sources" that later proved to be false, come the FUCK on, even a retard like you can add two and two together. How about the Fallujah camp? You know the one that did not exist?

I THINK i know this shit better than you ever will in your pathetic little life of greyscales, in my life it's black or white, it's wrong or it's right, anyone who ever tries to climb in between is just fooling himself.

Heh, you wanna point fingers at CIA/M16? How many innocent Iraqis you supposedly righteous ground people killed? You might wanna check with Abeer Qassim al-Janabi and see what happened to her. You think American and British never tortured a German in WW2 to get info? You are either naive or stupid. Maybe you grunt have the luxury of being black and white, right or wrong. But people who are charged with the life of millions and the survival of a country don't have that luxury. Make no mistake, war is ugly and there is never any honor in a war. But if you choose to enter a war, it is kill or get killed, what else do you think the war is all about? white knight in shining armor and flowers from civilian to greet you who freed them? You do what you have to do to win the war period. Torturing enemy to get info have been in every single war since the beginning of time. To be a liberal and say hey I wanna fight a war the clean/honorable way, you might as well put away your guns and wave olive branches at ur enemy.

You really don't get this at all, there is a HELL of a lot of difference between accepting civilian sacrifice because it's neccessary at that time and to willfully torturing someone that may or may not be innocent.

I'm no fucking white knight, nor have i ever stated that i am, i have acknowledged things that i have done that were not good but needed to be done to SAVE PEOPLES LIVES, no torture doesn't do that.

And i'm not a grunt, first of all i'm in the Airforce, second of all i am an officer, third i am a Captain of the SAS TFB.

Once you have stopped inhaling whatever it is that is rotting your stupid little brain you can get back to me and i'll TELL you about torture, better yet, wait until i get to Ft Smith and i'll show you, i mean, you might be a terrorist, what do i know? Perhaps a neighbour you had a fight with is willing to turn you in? That is how it worked in Afghanistan and Iraq. Nothing more was ever needed for an arrest without specific charges.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Budmantom
JohnOfSheffield you are causing me physical pain.

Not yet.

Ouch... stop you are hurting me.

Eventually, you will get hurt, the time or the place isn't something i know of, but i know you will get hurt.

You see, eventually you'll have to fend for yourself in real life and that isn't something twats like you can do.

Eventually you will realise that if we take it to torture, we have justified our enemy. It's too late to turn back time now, why do you think 1100 Talibans have become well over 30K or Al Quaida supporters have gained to hundreds of thousands worldwide?

If you feed your enemy, it will grow.

Because we talk too much and do too little.

We have an extremely effective army that has been neutered by our politicians.

I'd say that it is because of WRONG actions, like attacking a nation on false grounds and leaving the actual WOT completely unattended, hell even WE were sent to Iraq at the time.

We were first on the ground there too.

This has been handled in the worst way possible, where troops have been spread too thin to actually do their job and the ONLY reason of any success have been because of the efforts of diplomacy.

You have a wise and beautiful woman of an army mostly, it's only respected by the US, no troops in the world would ever say that the US army is good, in comparison, i can't really think of a worse army except maybe for the Japanese army.

 

[Ackmed]

I say its ok regardless.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

No, it is you GarfieldtheCat, who has no clue. It seems your education is based on silly Disney films. I suggest you take your own advice and read some real history books, not the foolish pop up ones you've been playing with. You know nothing of history. Nothing at all.

Seeing how you are about a 12-year old's intellect, I don't think i will worry about what I read. I can pretty much guarantee that I've read more books then you.

Anyoen want to take a vote that this is winnar111 in another disguise? Same BS, same lack of logic and comprehension.[/quote]

My experience and education trumps your book reading. I have seen your posts and I can easily tell that you have no ability to think on your own. You simply regurgitate what you read, and you offer nothing of your own. In other words, you are a fool, and not just any fool, you are a fool who thinks he is not. A person such as yourself has no buisness making comments on war strategies.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
I say its ok regardless.

Especially when it happens to US soldiers.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Especially when it happens to US soldiers.

It is interesting that you bring this up. I know you are trying to incite anger in the person you replied to by suggesting this, however, a smarter person (such as myself) can see the good in this situation. You see, by torturing a US soldier, a nation (or group) further demonizes itself. This will allow us to commit more atrocities against them with less public backlash. Sure some fools will protest, but they will largely be ignored. Hate is a strong motivator in war, and the more the public hates the enemy, the better it is for the war effort. Everyone knows this.