Do you have a newsletter?Lol wage slavery.
The barter system was more successful than anything the democrats can rightfully invent now.
Everyone provides their own food or they starve.
Paratus
Lifer
- Jun 4, 2004
- 17,743
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Coal as others have pointed out is expensive and no business wants to invest more money on coal plants unless absolutely required to.
Steel plants all closed down around my area before 2000, most back in the 80’s so count yourself lucky if you still have them if your town relied on them.
Let me approach this as a conservative and a capitalist so you understand the problem:
So your town has no competitive industries and you what? Want the rest of America to subsidize your lack of competitiveness? Why should America increase the size of the government just to make a rural minority more dependent on it.
Instead your town could lift itself by the bootstraps, innovate and maybe draw in some new business.
OR
I could approach this as the flaming liberal (from your point of view) that I am. Small rural towns have been hit hard by changes in the market and changes in policy over the last several decades. Liberal (really center left) policy could help mitigate this. Single payer healthcare would help you if your local steel business closed. Money for retraining and small business development could help expand the employment base. Of course this is what Hillary was pitching to small town America but she was of course rejected.
- Feb 1, 2008
- 11,492
- 3,163
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Today, the news media were talking about polls. Donald Trump is down, Joe Biden is up. Donald Trump loses 7 points, Joe Biden gained 9 points. If the election were held today.... Yada yada yada. Didn’t we hear this same happy talk back in 2016? Wasn’t Hillary Clinton assumed to be the big winner with no path for a republican win? Are we going to repeat that 2016 election all over again? Seriously?
And... tell me how people will react when someone so terribly flawed as Donald Trump, someone who’s flaws mount day after day, will react when Donald Trump is once again elected? Or in this case, re-elected? How shocked can a nation be? How much shocking can a nation take?
Just think of it. All of those pandemic deaths, all of the injustice, all of those protesters and protesting in the streets, and with it all... Donald Trump can still get himself re-elected? How does that happen, and how crazy will the streets of America become after another Donald Trump victory?
And consider this, what if we do experience a pandemic resurgence, a resurgence worse than the initial outbreak, and we have a Donald Trump presidency still in charge? Then what? Would Donald Trump shut down America? No. Would Donald Trump protect America as Trump claims to have protected America the first time around? No. Donald claims that he took immediate action by shutting off China to block further infections. With pandemic part two, would Donald Trump even try to protect anyone outside of himself, but instead putting the economy first no matter how many deaths followed? Wouldn’t it be better, for Donald Trump, to simply allow hundreds of thousands of deaths to occur and then just cover up those deaths? And, with instructing states to also hide and cover up those pandemic deaths? During Donald Trump part two and pandemic part two, will the operative Trump policy become block, lie, deny and hide those deaths? Taking that typical Donald Trump out? Probably. Most likely. Absolutely.
If anyone believes Trump can not win a second term, you are not paying attention. Even with everything as bad as it can be and with America in total chaos, and with everything seemingly against Donald Trump, he could win. Then what?
And... tell me how people will react when someone so terribly flawed as Donald Trump, someone who’s flaws mount day after day, will react when Donald Trump is once again elected? Or in this case, re-elected? How shocked can a nation be? How much shocking can a nation take?
Just think of it. All of those pandemic deaths, all of the injustice, all of those protesters and protesting in the streets, and with it all... Donald Trump can still get himself re-elected? How does that happen, and how crazy will the streets of America become after another Donald Trump victory?
And consider this, what if we do experience a pandemic resurgence, a resurgence worse than the initial outbreak, and we have a Donald Trump presidency still in charge? Then what? Would Donald Trump shut down America? No. Would Donald Trump protect America as Trump claims to have protected America the first time around? No. Donald claims that he took immediate action by shutting off China to block further infections. With pandemic part two, would Donald Trump even try to protect anyone outside of himself, but instead putting the economy first no matter how many deaths followed? Wouldn’t it be better, for Donald Trump, to simply allow hundreds of thousands of deaths to occur and then just cover up those deaths? And, with instructing states to also hide and cover up those pandemic deaths? During Donald Trump part two and pandemic part two, will the operative Trump policy become block, lie, deny and hide those deaths? Taking that typical Donald Trump out? Probably. Most likely. Absolutely.
If anyone believes Trump can not win a second term, you are not paying attention. Even with everything as bad as it can be and with America in total chaos, and with everything seemingly against Donald Trump, he could win. Then what?
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We did not hear the same thing with Clinton and Biden’s lead is currently larger than any Clinton ever enjoyed.
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,242
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We heard the same thing but with numbers that weren't nearly as good as what Biden has now. Clinton was up at this point by about 3. Biden is up by 8. And remember, Clinton won the popular vote by 2 points and only barely lost the EC because she lost 4 swing states that Obama had won by 1 point or less. It's the same idea, but with better numbers.
There’s a huge difference right now. The generic congressional ballot wasn’t +9-11% in favor of the Dems and Hillary never came close to 50% in any poll. Dems are +9-11% in the generic Congressional Ballot and Biden has hit over 50%(highest is 53) in several national polls.
Based on current polling if the election were to happen tomorrow Biden would be president and the dems would net +7 Senate Seats and 30 house seats. Unfortunately we still have months to go and things can change rapidly.
Trump can most certainly win a second term because of the time between now and the election is so long and things can change. The point is it’s very possible Biden can beat Trump.
As I’ve said before this election goes two ways. Biden trashes Trump in both the electoral college and popular vote, the Dems net 6-8 Senate Seats and 20-30 in the House.
Or Trump wins, Dems net 3 Senate seats and 10 house seats.
Based on current polling if the election were to happen tomorrow Biden would be president and the dems would net +7 Senate Seats and 30 house seats. Unfortunately we still have months to go and things can change rapidly.
Trump can most certainly win a second term because of the time between now and the election is so long and things can change. The point is it’s very possible Biden can beat Trump.
As I’ve said before this election goes two ways. Biden trashes Trump in both the electoral college and popular vote, the Dems net 6-8 Senate Seats and 20-30 in the House.
Or Trump wins, Dems net 3 Senate seats and 10 house seats.
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Change in Trump's favor, like how? Given our chosen path, it's perfectly obvious that the pandemic situation will deteriorate substantially if not catastrophically between now & the election. The economic situation likely won't improve enough to blunt the effects of long term unemployment draining away family resources. How do you register to vote in Hooverville, anyway?
oh I agree on all. Unemployment will be over 10% through the end of the year. Covid isn’t going away anytime soon. The current crisis isn’t going away. But you never know what shenanigans will come into play.
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,656
- 207
- 106
Maybe in your state this is true. Not in mine.
Gas tax pays for all roads and bridges. $0 federal dollars. Federal dollars are only used in interstates... which there are none.
Broadband and cable utilities are funded by local (shitty) mom and pop companies.
Most people around here who arent "In town" have well water and septic systems. No public infrastructure.
Property Taxes pay for regional education. Local schools receive $0 federal dollars. I pay $6K yearly for my kids elementary school tuition out of pocket.
People around here would rather work 3 jobs than take welfare. $0 federal dollars.
There are no farmers here, so no farm grants.
Poor ass Pittsburgh and Philadelphia suck up all the state and federal revenue for failed transit systems, failed city and suburbia schools, welfare and foodstamp programs. So I want to know where is the money you claim we get.
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,656
- 207
- 106
40, 50, and 60 year old industry die-hards have no use for Hillary to pay for them to go back to college to get a new degree to learn a new profession.
There is only so much demand for plumbers, electricians, carpenters, mechanics, welders, machinists, constructions workers...so increasing the number of small businesses doesnt do anything.
We need a steady supply of manufacturing, warehousing, shipping/recieving, industrial jobs. If Democrats cant find a sustainable source of blue collar unionized jobs for rural america, then they have nothing to offer.
To be clear before addressing the claims in your post is Pennsylvania the state you live in?
So you expect your economy built solely on the barter system to have all these things?
I grew up in Pennsylvania, I know the state very well.
None of this is true, there are extensive federal programs to aid rural areas in all these things (except maybe septic stuff, I don't know). Hell, just this year the FCC committed $20 billion to rural areas to help them build out broadband.
Guess again. Poverty in rural areas is about 35% higher than the national average, meaning rural areas take in more means tested assistance like welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc. than urban or suburban areas. On a per-person basis rural areas take more welfare than anyone.
We aren't talking about your town, we are talking about rural areas. Farm grants are absolutely colossal transfers of wealth from cities to rural areas.
Do you seriously not realize that metro areas subsidize rural areas and not the other way around? This is incredible. You really think all that empty space in the middle of the state is paying for Philly and Pittsburgh metro areas?
Regardless, while county by county comparisons are too hard to do we can at least do net federal tax revenue by state. You'll notice a couple outliers like Virginia/Maryland because of DC and North Dakota thanks to the oil industry, generally speaking you can see what the net tax takers have in common, they are disproportionately rural states. This is because rural areas are subsidized by metro areas.
I always kind of wish there were versions of these maps that filtered out DoD payments, which I assume this one doesn't. It's not that DoD payments are unimportant, obviously. But, for example, I'd assume Huntsville is a significant contributor to how blue Alabama is in the map, but they don't really speak to the urban/rural divide.
Paratus
Lifer
- Jun 4, 2004
- 17,743
- 16,059
- 146
I too grew up in PA. He’s also missing the state and local income taxes that go to pay for services and let’s face it as I said in my previous post steel was mostly gone well before 2000.I grew up in Pennsylvania, I know the state very well.
None of this is true, there are extensive federal programs to aid rural areas in all these things (except maybe septic stuff, I don't know). Hell, just this year the FCC committed $20 billion to rural areas to help them build out broadband.
Guess again. Poverty in rural areas is about 35% higher than the national average, meaning rural areas take in more means tested assistance like welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc. than urban or suburban areas. On a per-person basis rural areas take more welfare than anyone.
We aren't talking about your town, we are talking about rural areas. Farm grants are absolutely colossal transfers of wealth from cities to rural areas.
Do you seriously not realize that metro areas subsidize rural areas and not the other way around? This is incredible. You really think all that empty space in the middle of the state is paying for Philly and Pittsburgh metro areas?
Regardless, while county by county comparisons are too hard to do we can at least do net federal tax revenue by state. You'll notice a couple outliers like Virginia/Maryland because of DC and North Dakota thanks to the oil industry, generally speaking you can see what the net tax takers have in common, they are disproportionately rural states. This is because rural areas are subsidized by metro areas.
What an entitled position. They learned a single industry and now feel entitled to be payed to perform in that industry for the rest of their lives? Whose supposed to pay them if the industry owner closes up shop? Do you expect the industry to keep paying them if they are Do you expect the government to subsidize the industry to keep these guys working?
Suburban and Urban workers have to change professions sometimes when their industry contracts why should rural workers be treated specially?
Got it. Democrats want to be realists and help you change industries to keep up with the changing landscape of industry. You however feel entitled to work in the same industries you learned as a new hire. So instead you’ll go with the GOP who tells you what you want to hear. That they support you but then helps your industries make money by moving overseas.
PA funds 36% of its transportation budget from gas taxes and fees.
PA has 20 interstates within its borders.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,839
- 2,625
- 136
According to this, almost 31% of PA's revenues come from the federal coffers, and it ranks #30 as recipient (2016 figures). OTOH my state, like most if not all blue states pays far more and receives far less (CT ranked #47 as recipient) :
ballotpedia.org
.
US steel production was offshored by Ronald Reagan, and except for specialty steels, no one with any real knowledge expects it to be coming back. Coal production destroyed large chunks of PA (we don't have perpetually burning cities here) and is an antiquated fuel. I personally don't want to be in a race with Red China to see who can pollute the most
Pennsylvania state budget and finances - Ballotpedia
Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics
US steel production was offshored by Ronald Reagan, and except for specialty steels, no one with any real knowledge expects it to be coming back. Coal production destroyed large chunks of PA (we don't have perpetually burning cities here) and is an antiquated fuel. I personally don't want to be in a race with Red China to see who can pollute the most
I hear that, in that you're more interested in the balance of payments for the governance stuff and not the military. Military spending is so large though, arguably up to around $1 trillion annually depending on what you count, that I think not including it would be misleading. I agree it's probably a big reason for Alabama's status, as well as California being a 'break even' state.
It really does show to what extent the densely populated and urban northeast subsidizes the rest of the country though. There are only 10 out of 50 net payers in the whole country according to these figures, half of which are northeastern states.
Oh, sure. My post was definitely not "your point is invalid" but "I think having multiple versions of this sort of map would be interesting".
I must say for being the party of fiscal conservatism the GOP sure does bring home the bacon. Especially in the South.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,978
- 31,534
- 146
decades of conservative propaganda does this to brains, folks.
Kids: let this be a lesson. Don't be this person.
Fanatical Meat
Lifer
- Feb 4, 2009
- 35,862
- 17,407
- 136
They should be glad I’m not running a campaign.
I would point this out every single day. I would call out Senators, Representatives and Governors who live in mud hut States when they complain about spending or cutting X from the budget.
Sure I’ll cut X from the budget and I’ll also cut Y federal aid your state gets to cut spending further.
Why does the electoral collage favor mud hut States? Why is someone who lives in a mud hut better at deciding whom should be President?
**I agree I totally fit my description of a Useful Idiot**
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zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,978
- 31,534
- 146
conservatives seem to demand all of the glory of unrestrained capitalism, but none of the consequences--say, like when your dead, obsolete industry disappears, the individual shouldn't be responsible for learning how to compete in the new world, and should just get paid to do nothing.
I don't get it: dude demands that people live by their means, live off the barter system, but also cries and moans under the assumption that the evil government is doing nothing to help them.
It's quite perplexing how one can hold these diametrically opposed views. It must be frustrating, because the solution you demand is also the one that you claim to hate. Maybe this explains the anger?
Fanatical Meat
Lifer
- Feb 4, 2009
- 35,862
- 17,407
- 136
I can say for a FACT the bridge repair near my house was conducted by a Massachusetts company (few trucks had NH plates).
I can say for a FACT the crew who paved and replaced my waterlines last summer were from Massachusetts.
I’ll accept the point on farming because we just don’t have enough land to do it practically, what we do have is money to buy food from elsewhere. Keep taking that shit attitude and I’m sure at some point our food money can go to Canada or Mexico or some non mud hut State.
I’m all for helping out the old steel mill towns even though you guys never helped the old textile mill cities in Massachusetts. Help needs to be a plan to move forward and it will involve some “pain”. I won’t tolerate someone showing zero gratitude and actually insulting people for the help.
I realize Hillary was not the person mud hut dwellers were going to vote for, so let’s stick with the current President. What great coal & steel jobs has he provided? Per the President you guys were all going to have great jobs again. Specifically what has the President not done because you are still complaining.
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