I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[woolfe9998]

I disagree with all of this. This election is a referendum on Trump, period. Joe Biden needs to be Not Trump.

Yeah, this time it's just different, isn't it? VRAM's conventional wisdom from prior elections may not apply here.

 

[eelw]

But he already has a plan - Obama 2.0.

 

[JEDIYoda]

But he already has a plan - Obama 2.0.

It does not matter what Biden has......
You actually have not posted anything to support your premise....
One thing is obvious -- Trump cannot!!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

But he already has a plan - Obama 2.0.

I’m more than okay with that

Guess I’m tired of “winning”

 

[fskimospy]

I’m more than okay with that

Guess I’m tired of “winning”

I think a very effective message for Biden would be something to the effect of: I’m going to run the country honestly and competently. We may not agree on everything but the total chaos and corruption will end.

 

[sao123]

This entire thread just proves that the Dem base is so clueless about what brought about Trump, and why it is going to continue for the foreseeable future, even if Trump loses in 2020.
Dems have completely adopted urban politics as the mantra of the platform and have just outright rejected half of the country.

The only way you will not see another Trump is if someone can come along and UNITE the country in the center, rather than take it over and rule of the extreme left or extreme right.
Until someone learns to compromise on some issues, the current situation will escalate until we are in a full blown civil war again, and this time it wont be over race, but just life and economics in general.

There is a traditional segment of the population who have a combined 2 party family income of 75K-150K per year for a family of 4 who are being raped at all sides by both parties.
Dems don't want to understand this rural america, they just want to erase it, and that will always be a losing battle.


If you want to win an election, progressivism can't be the flip a lightswitch makeover that happens tomorrow.
There is no place for hard line politics in america today, but woke culture (for whatever cause) keeps saying that the only solution is to go even harder to the extreme, and they are going to get creamed.


If a true visionary like JFK were alive today, he would wipe the floor with most Dems today for their hardline all or nothing attitude.
Find a balance to save the environment, that still allows domestic dirty industry that traditionally pays well.
Find a balance between 0 immigration, and unlimited immigration. Recognize that the US is currently overpopulated for our current program levels, and that the H1B visa program while useful is being heavily abused at the expense of the domestic worker.
Find a balance between taxing the crap out of everyone with free handouts for all, and no safety net programs at all.
Its time to find some common ground like the manned Space Program and infrastructure & tech projects that give high paying work to real citizens.


The one real factor that Dems always miss, is that a lot of people voted for Trump not because of his economic policies, but against leftist social ones.
There is the continued extreme left hatred of all things religion.
The continued pushing of collective guilt onto people who will never accept that.

Find a balance between all abortions are legal with zero restrictions, and no abortions are legal for any reason ever.
Stop the continued push to make America into Euro Communist Union the 2nd.

I truly dont see an end to any of this, so imo, split the country into 2 where each side can have what they want, would be a much faster, simpler solution.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This entire thread just proves that the Dem base is so clueless about what brought about Trump, and why it is going to continue for the foreseeable future, even if Trump loses in 2020.
Dems have completely adopted urban politics as the mantra of the platform and have just outright rejected half of the country.

The only way you will not see another Trump is if someone can come along and UNITE the country in the center, rather than take it over and rule of the extreme left or extreme right.
Until someone learns to compromise on some issues, the current situation will escalate until we are in a full blown civil war again, and this time it wont be over race, but just life and economics in general.

There is a traditional segment of the population who have a combined 2 party family income of 75K-150K per year for a family of 4 who are being raped at all sides by both parties.
Dems don't want to understand this rural america, they just want to erase it, and that will always be a losing battle.


If you want to win an election, progressivism can't be the flip a lightswitch makeover that happens tomorrow.
There is no place for hard line politics in america today, but woke culture (for whatever cause) keeps saying that the only solution is to go even harder to the extreme, and they are going to get creamed.


If a true visionary like JFK were alive today, he would wipe the floor with most Dems today for their hardline all or nothing attitude.
Find a balance to save the environment, that still allows domestic dirty industry that traditionally pays well.
Find a balance between 0 immigration, and unlimited immigration. Recognize that the US is currently overpopulated for our current program levels, and that the H1B visa program while useful is being heavily abused at the expense of the domestic worker.
Find a balance between taxing the crap out of everyone with free handouts for all, and no safety net programs at all.
Its time to find some common ground like the manned Space Program and infrastructure & tech projects that give high paying work to real citizens.


The one real factor that Dems always miss, is that a lot of people voted for Trump not because of his economic policies, but against leftist social ones.
There is the continued extreme left hatred of all things religion.
The continued pushing of collective guilt onto people who will never accept that.

Find a balance between all abortions are legal with zero restrictions, and no abortions are legal for any reason ever.
Stop the continued push to make America into Euro Communist Union the 2nd.

I truly dont see an end to any of this, so imo, split the country into 2 where each side can have what they want, would be a much faster, simpler solution.

While I don’t think there will be Democratic win it’s because incumbents almost never lose.
Saved for follow up.

 

[woolfe9998]

This entire thread just proves that the Dem base is so clueless about what brought about Trump, and why it is going to continue for the foreseeable future, even if Trump loses in 2020.
Dems have completely adopted urban politics as the mantra of the platform and have just outright rejected half of the country.

The only way you will not see another Trump is if someone can come along and UNITE the country in the center, rather than take it over and rule of the extreme left or extreme right.
Until someone learns to compromise on some issues, the current situation will escalate until we are in a full blown civil war again, and this time it wont be over race, but just life and economics in general.

There is a traditional segment of the population who have a combined 2 party family income of 75K-150K per year for a family of 4 who are being raped at all sides by both parties.
Dems don't want to understand this rural america, they just want to erase it, and that will always be a losing battle.


If you want to win an election, progressivism can't be the flip a lightswitch makeover that happens tomorrow.
There is no place for hard line politics in america today, but woke culture (for whatever cause) keeps saying that the only solution is to go even harder to the extreme, and they are going to get creamed.


If a true visionary like JFK were alive today, he would wipe the floor with most Dems today for their hardline all or nothing attitude.
Find a balance to save the environment, that still allows domestic dirty industry that traditionally pays well.
Find a balance between 0 immigration, and unlimited immigration. Recognize that the US is currently overpopulated for our current program levels, and that the H1B visa program while useful is being heavily abused at the expense of the domestic worker.
Find a balance between taxing the crap out of everyone with free handouts for all, and no safety net programs at all.
Its time to find some common ground like the manned Space Program and infrastructure & tech projects that give high paying work to real citizens.


The one real factor that Dems always miss, is that a lot of people voted for Trump not because of his economic policies, but against leftist social ones.
There is the continued extreme left hatred of all things religion.
The continued pushing of collective guilt onto people who will never accept that.

Find a balance between all abortions are legal with zero restrictions, and no abortions are legal for any reason ever.
Stop the continued push to make America into Euro Communist Union the 2nd.

I truly dont see an end to any of this, so imo, split the country into 2 where each side can have what they want, would be a much faster, simpler solution.

I don't agree with you regarding some of these issues, like what you said about the environment. I think where left extremism is most problematic is with its identity politics.

We don't need to be "centrists" on all the issues. It isn't really policy differences which are dividing us per se. It's tribalism that is dividing us, and identity politics touches directly on that. That is what may be alienating some people who are in "the center."

 

[fskimospy]

This entire thread just proves that the Dem base is so clueless about what brought about Trump, and why it is going to continue for the foreseeable future, even if Trump loses in 2020.
Dems have completely adopted urban politics as the mantra of the platform and have just outright rejected half of the country.

The only way you will not see another Trump is if someone can come along and UNITE the country in the center, rather than take it over and rule of the extreme left or extreme right.
Until someone learns to compromise on some issues, the current situation will escalate until we are in a full blown civil war again, and this time it wont be over race, but just life and economics in general.

There is a traditional segment of the population who have a combined 2 party family income of 75K-150K per year for a family of 4 who are being raped at all sides by both parties.
Dems don't want to understand this rural america, they just want to erase it, and that will always be a losing battle.


If you want to win an election, progressivism can't be the flip a lightswitch makeover that happens tomorrow.
There is no place for hard line politics in america today, but woke culture (for whatever cause) keeps saying that the only solution is to go even harder to the extreme, and they are going to get creamed.


If a true visionary like JFK were alive today, he would wipe the floor with most Dems today for their hardline all or nothing attitude.
Find a balance to save the environment, that still allows domestic dirty industry that traditionally pays well.
Find a balance between 0 immigration, and unlimited immigration. Recognize that the US is currently overpopulated for our current program levels, and that the H1B visa program while useful is being heavily abused at the expense of the domestic worker.
Find a balance between taxing the crap out of everyone with free handouts for all, and no safety net programs at all.
Its time to find some common ground like the manned Space Program and infrastructure & tech projects that give high paying work to real citizens.


The one real factor that Dems always miss, is that a lot of people voted for Trump not because of his economic policies, but against leftist social ones.
There is the continued extreme left hatred of all things religion.
The continued pushing of collective guilt onto people who will never accept that.

Find a balance between all abortions are legal with zero restrictions, and no abortions are legal for any reason ever.
Stop the continued push to make America into Euro Communist Union the 2nd.

I truly dont see an end to any of this, so imo, split the country into 2 where each side can have what they want, would be a much faster, simpler solution.

This is totally divorced from reality.

Democrats already ARE exactly the party you say you want! They don’t believe in abortion with no restrictions, their economic programs and social safety net would be considered right wing in any other developed country, and the average Democrat is religious.

They are literally exactly what you’re asking for but instead of taking yes for an answer you just rage at them further. The problem isn’t their lack of compromise (they are all about compromise!) the problem is you.

 

[woolfe9998]

While I don’t think there will be Democratic win it’s because incumbents almost never lose.
Saved for follow up.

Eh, hard to say. We all think that now because we are coming off of three straight two termers. But historically it hasn't been the case.

Of the 42 men who served as president before the current incumbent, only 15 won two consecutive elections.

Among the others, five died during their first terms, seven incumbents declined to run, five tried but failed to win their party’s nomination, and 10 won the nomination but lost their bids for reelection.

For U.S. Presidents, Second Term Odds Are Surprisingly Long

Four more years? It’s not nearly as common as you’d think.

www.thedailybeast.com

So when they actually ran and got their nomination, the incumbents won 15 of 25 times, but when you think about it, most of those declining to run did so because they were aware of their poor re-election chances, and those who lost their party nominations probably weren't good enough to win the general either.

 

[nakedfrog]

Until someone learns to compromise on some issues, the current situation will escalate until we are in a full blown civil war again, and this time it wont be over race, but just life and economics in general.

Tell me about the compromises the GOP was willing to make from 2010-2017?

 

[fskimospy]

Eh, hard to say. We all think that now because we are coming off of three straight two termers. But historically it hasn't been the case.

For U.S. Presidents, Second Term Odds Are Surprisingly Long

Four more years? It’s not nearly as common as you’d think.

www.thedailybeast.com

So when they actually ran and got their nomination, the incumbents won 15 of 25 times, but when you think about it, most of those declining to run did so because they were aware of their poor re-election chances, and those who lost their party nominations probably weren't good enough to win the general either.

Yes. Even if you confine it to my lifetime (barely!) of the 5 presidents who have stood for re-election 2 lost (Carter, HW) and 3 won. (Clinton,W, Obama). That’s not exactly a strong trend either way.

I do think that because partisanship has increased and margins have shrunk the modest advantage an incumbent has is probably more important now than before but it’s hardly ‘almost never loses’ territory for presidents.

 

[sao123]

This is totally divorced from reality.

Democrats already ARE exactly the party you say you want! They don’t believe in abortion with no restrictions, their economic programs and social safety net would be considered right wing in any other developed country, and the average Democrat is religious.

They are literally exactly what you’re asking for but instead of taking yes for an answer you just rage at them further. The problem isn’t their lack of compromise (they are all about compromise!) the problem is you.

My daily life is not divorced from reality... my daily life IS reality: FOR ME.
Dems have to accept their THEIR reality is not the reality for EVERYONE.

 

[fskimospy]

My daily life is not divorced from reality... my daily life IS reality: FOR ME.
Dems have to accept their THEIR reality is not the reality for EVERYONE.

The Democrats are literally already doing the things you demand they do.

There is only one extremist, non-compromising party in the US, and that’s the Republicans. If you want the party of compromise then your choice is clear.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Biden is a flawed candidate. However, if he was as shitty a candidate as you claim, then why has he consistently led Trump in the polls more than any other candidate in the dem primary? And more so than HRC at this point in time.

Biden has downsides, but his biggest upside is that his personality contrasts so sharply with that of Trump. You may be right, that this wouldn't have been enough to defeat a more reasonable republican, but Biden might just be the right candidate at this time to defeat Trump.

Biden would not have beaten Trump 4 years ago, and prior to COVID-19 and the current protests, Trump was reasonably positioned to win again. Even Hillary could probably beat Trump now. Trump has run out of field.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Let us for the moment agree to the hypothetical that Biden is a terrible candidate.

You realize that means that Republicans actively chose someone worse, right?

And as with all races, you don't need to be the fastest, you just need to be faster than your opponent. Biden doesn't have to be the perfect candidate (TM). He just needs to be better than Trump. Which he is.

Yes they did, and now they have to decide if they want to go down with the ship they created.

 

[sao123]

Tell me about the compromises the GOP was willing to make from 2010-2017?

Where did I defend anything that the GOP 2010-2017 has said or done?
8 years of uncompromising leading into 8 more years of uncompromising just gives 16 years of gridlock.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Tell me about the compromises the GOP was willing to make from 2010-2017?

He can’t! That would mean trashing his Furhrer!

 

[woolfe9998]

Biden would not have beaten Trump 4 years ago, and prior to COVID-19 and the current protests, Trump was reasonably positioned to win again. Even Hillary could probably beat Trump now. Trump has run out of field.

Which still doesn't explain why Biden was doing better in head-to-head throughout the entire primary election season, which included a big hunk of COVID-19, than the other dems. Biden's recent climb from around +6 to +8 has probably been due to Trump's response to protests, but not his wider lead than the others prior to the protests.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Where did I defend anything that the GOP 2010-2017 has said or done?
8 years of uncompromising leading into 8 more years of uncompromising just gives 16 years of gridlock.

Well then, here’s *possibly* some good news for you assuming you want something done.

Here's a number that should terrify every Republican on the ballot this fall

With all the focus on a slew of new polls that show President Donald Trump falling further behind former Vice President Joe Biden, one number has largely slipped through the cracks -- and it is a blaring warning signal to Republicans on the ballot this fall.

www.cnn.com

 

[sao123]

I don't agree with you regarding some of these issues, like what you said about the environment. I think where left extremism is most problematic is with its identity politics.

We don't need to be "centrists" on all the issues. It isn't really policy differences which are dividing us per se. It's tribalism that is dividing us, and identity politics touches directly on that. That is what may be alienating some people who are in "the center."

There are definitely economic aspects of the divide. The policy literally destroyed the fabric of entire towns, mine included. I lived in a town of 2500 people which was based on a coal mine, 2 steel machines shops and a powerplant. All of that are now defunct. The town is no longer basically existing. Peoples lives are in ruin and all the Dems did was scoff at them.

Shutting down domestic coal and steel didnt save the environment. the worldwide demand for steel and coal hasnt gone down any.
All Obama did was raise the cost of producing it here, and make it convenient to move it to some other country where the labor was cheaper.

 

[sao123]

Well then, here’s *possibly* some good news for you assuming you want something done.

Here's a number that should terrify every Republican on the ballot this fall

With all the focus on a slew of new polls that show President Donald Trump falling further behind former Vice President Joe Biden, one number has largely slipped through the cracks -- and it is a blaring warning signal to Republicans on the ballot this fall.

www.cnn.com

Cnn drivel. Not worth the electrons it was printed on.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is totally divorced from reality.

Democrats already ARE exactly the party you say you want! They don’t believe in abortion with no restrictions, their economic programs and social safety net would be considered right wing in any other developed country, and the average Democrat is religious.

They are literally exactly what you’re asking for but instead of taking yes for an answer you just rage at them further. The problem isn’t their lack of compromise (they are all about compromise!) the problem is you.

He bases it all on something that isn't true in the first place, that Dems' supposedly urban centric policy rejects half the country when less than 20% of the population lives in rural areas.

Rural areas in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's just the launch pad into his flight of tribal fantasy, of course. He thinks Hillary is a Leftist.

 

[woolfe9998]

There are definitely economic aspects of the divide. The policy literally destroyed the fabric of entire towns, mine included. I lived in a town of 2500 people which was based on a coal mine, 2 steel machines shops and a powerplant. All of that are now defunct. The town is no longer basically existing. Peoples lives are in ruin and all the Dems did was scoff at them.

Shutting down domestic coal and steel didnt save the environment. the worldwide demand for steel and coal hasnt gone down any.
All Obama did was raise the cost of producing it here, and make it convenient to move it to some other country where the labor was cheaper.

The demise of coal is for the most part incorrectly blamed on the democrats. Over a period of 20 years, mid 80's to mid 2000's, we increased our total net coal production while the jobs in coal declined over 80%. That was due to automation. Then, in the late 2000's, natural gas began being substituted for coal and that has been responsible for the continued steep decline.

True, liberals want to get rid of coal. And for good reason. But they didn't cause its demise.

 

[sao123]

The demise of coal is for the most part incorrectly blamed on the democrats. Over a period of 20 years, mid 80's to mid 2000's, we increased our total net coal production while the jobs in coal declined over 80%. That was due to automation. Then, in the late 2000's, natural gas began being substituted for coal and that has been responsible for the continued steep decline.

True, liberals want to get rid of coal. And for good reason. But they didn't cause its demise.

False.
Natural Gas cant be used to make steel, it requires coke.