I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[Fanatical Meat]

There are definitely economic aspects of the divide. The policy literally destroyed the fabric of entire towns, mine included. I lived in a town of 2500 people which was based on a coal mine, 2 steel machines shops and a powerplant. All of that are now defunct. The town is no longer basically existing. Peoples lives are in ruin and all the Dems did was scoff at them.

Shutting down domestic coal and steel didnt save the environment. the worldwide demand for steel and coal hasnt gone down any.
All Obama did was raise the cost of producing it here, and make it convenient to move it to some other country where the labor was cheaper.

So how are all those great Coal Jobs the President promised.
Sorry man coal isn’t dead and it will continue to be dead for the foreseeable future. Other fuels are cleaner and easier to extract today.
Some 95% automated plant to make coal for steel won’t save anybody.

 

[nakedfrog]

Where did I defend anything that the GOP 2010-2017 has said or done?
8 years of uncompromising leading into 8 more years of uncompromising just gives 16 years of gridlock.

Most of those folks are still there and we have little reason to expect they'll suddenly change their tune if Biden takes office, but you're sitting here complaining about the Democrats.

And I don't feel like digging into your post history, but I'm pretty sure I could find places where you defended their actions.

 

[woolfe9998]

False.
Natural Gas cant be used to make steel, it requires coke.

What is false, that the adoption of natural gas has caused a sharp decline in coal? Wrong. Both coal and natural gas are used in power generation, which is what most of the market for coal has been. And in that sector, it has been replaced by natural gas.

The sources on this are legion. Just try Google.

 

[fskimospy]

Biden would not have beaten Trump 4 years ago, and prior to COVID-19 and the current protests, Trump was reasonably positioned to win again. Even Hillary could probably beat Trump now. Trump has run out of field.

Nah, Biden has consistently performed better with the white working class than Clinton did and that would have put him over the top.

He has been beating Trump in the polls the entire time from the day he announced his candidacy.

 

[sao123]

He bases it all on something that isn't true in the first place, that Dems' supposedly urban centric policy rejects half the country when less than 20% of the population lives in rural areas.

Rural areas in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's just the launch pad into his flight of tribal fantasy, of course. He thinks Hillary is a Leftist.

Interestingly, only 13% of America is african american, but that is sufficient quantity to tailor national policy to assist them, but its ok to ignore even 20%? I bet you'd make a great ruling class.

 

[brycejones]

Interestingly, only 13% of America is african american, but that is sufficient quantity to tailor national policy to assist them, but its ok to ignore even 20%? I bet you'd make a great ruling class.

QFP

 

[Jhhnn]

There are definitely economic aspects of the divide. The policy literally destroyed the fabric of entire towns, mine included. I lived in a town of 2500 people which was based on a coal mine, 2 steel machines shops and a powerplant. All of that are now defunct. The town is no longer basically existing. Peoples lives are in ruin and all the Dems did was scoff at them.

Shutting down domestic coal and steel didnt save the environment. the worldwide demand for steel and coal hasnt gone down any.
All Obama did was raise the cost of producing it here, and make it convenient to move it to some other country where the labor was cheaper.

Excuse me, but coal has been dying for a long time because other sources of energy are cheaper & more efficient. As coal fired plants aged out & needed extensive rehab, operators built new natural gas plants instead. Blaming Obama for the decline of US steel is inane. It happened 40 years ago.

 

[UberNeuman]

Most of those folks are still there and we have little reason to expect they'll suddenly change their tune if Biden takes office, but you're sitting here complaining about the Democrats.

And I don't feel like digging into your post history, but I'm pretty sure I could find places where you defended their actions.

You should. It's a hoot.

On current events:

Of course were watching with interest... The AntiChrist will soon be revealed.

On AOC:

You can get everything AOC got for $75.00 from cost Cutters, Supercuts or HollidayHair for $75 or less every day of the week that ends in Y.
and yes... those are the places that 100% of AVERAGE women go...

On how kneeling is offensive:

No... its confrontational and offensive because I was taught in my 7th grade history class by a veteran what the law says about the National Anthem. Intentionally kneeling during the national anthem is a blatent show of disrespect for the country. They cant fathom why the nation is more important than any one individual. They don't actually Pledge their allegience to this nation, they dont believe in patriotism. They only pledge allegiance to themselves.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301
36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a)Designation.—
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1)when the flag is displayed—
(A)
individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B)
members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C)
all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2)
when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were display

and:

Yes i do realize that our current slate of liberal judges have completed desecrated and destroyed everything our founding fathers held sacred.
with hope someday we will restore that former glory.

Just another concerned "conservative" looking for "both sides" to "compromise" except that he's not. lol.

 

[VRAMdemon]

To some extent I agree. Biden does need to stand for something. But I will say that being the anti [other guy] holds more currency than it did in prior elections. Because Trump is not an ordinary opponent. Fortunately, to be the anti-Trump doesn't require him to continually attack Trump. It just requires him to set up a sharp contrast by not acting like Trump. And he doesn't. He has a warm, likable personality. It comes naturally to him just like being a dick comes naturally to Trump. Yes, he does need to articulate a vision, but policy is less influential on election results than is personality.

Mainly the policy articulation is to shore up the base. The swing voters, many of them, have mixed policy views. Some may even agree with Trump on policy 3 times out of 5, but think Trump is an unpalatable jackass.

Well..., that was kind of the gist of my post. don't take Trumps bait and make it a mud slinging contest, because I don't think that's a war he can win. Trump is far worse than just another average Republican. Not many of them would have failed as spectacularly as Trump. And you can't just dismiss Trump's rabble rousing when it's the core of his presidency. Feeding hatred and division is the main thing Trump has done in office.

But, Biden still has to stand for something other than "I'm not Trump". Although, that's still enough to get my vote, it may not be enough for people , whom for whatever misguided reason think he's no different than Trump.

Hillary lost votes in critical states in 2016 not because voters don’t care about political positions but because Clinton’s positions were subordinated to artificial scandals and personal dynamics between her and Trump. The “Stronger Together” messaging was not able to take hold because major media and troll-guided chatter in all the social media platforms ignored her actual positions, plans and real governmental accomplishments in favor of manufactured bullshit.

Should he run a "let's get back to normal" slogan type campaign?, I'm not sure. While people would like the return of decency and respectability to the roll of the POTUS what many don't want is a return to "business as usual". Of course there are a group of Trump lovers and a group of Trump haters that are unlikely to be swayed much by anything reasonable that Biden does. A 'let's get back to normal' campaign would likely cost him some Bernie voters that don't think he's far enough from Trump as it is, and gain him some center righter's who are afraid he's too close to Bernie as it is. I'm not sure which group is most important, and I'm sure his campaign is trying to woo them both. "Normal" is an improvement to the abnormal that we currently have. That still does not make for an inspiring slogan IMO.

And...of course I could be completely wrong and people have already made up their minds about the candidates. That any campaign strategy will decide the race, is mistaken.

 

[woolfe9998]

Well..., that was kind of the gist of my post. don't take Trumps bait and make it a mud slinging contest, because I don't think that's a war he can win. Trump is far worse than just another average Republican. Not many of them would have failed as spectacularly as Trump. And you can't just dismiss Trump's rabble rousing when it's the core of his presidency. Feeding hatred and division is the main thing Trump has done in office.

But, Biden still has to stand for something other than "I'm not Trump". Although, that's still enough to get my vote, it may not be enough for people , whom for whatever misguided reason think he's no different than Trump.

Hillary lost votes in critical states in 2016 not because voters don’t care about political positions but because Clinton’s positions were subordinated to artificial scandals and personal dynamics between her and Trump. The “Stronger Together” messaging was not able to take hold because major media and troll-guided chatter in all the social media platforms ignored her actual positions, plans and real governmental accomplishments in favor of manufactured bullshit.

Should he run a "let's get back to normal" slogan type campaign?, I'm not sure. While people would like the return of decency and respectability to the roll of the POTUS what many don't want is a return to "business as usual". Of course there are a group of Trump lovers and a group of Trump haters that are unlikely to be swayed much by anything reasonable that Biden does. A 'let's get back to normal' campaign would likely cost him some Bernie voters that don't think he's far enough from Trump as it is, and gain him some center righter's who are afraid he's too close to Bernie as it is. I'm not sure which group is most important, and I'm sure his campaign is trying to woo them both. "Normal" is an improvement to the abnormal that we currently have. That still does not make for an inspiring slogan IMO.

And...of course I could be completely wrong and people have already made up their minds about the candidates. That any campaign strategy will decide the race, is mistaken.

I don't think a "return to normalcy" or the like is a good slogan. It can easily be lampooned, and you're right that it would alienate some Bernie Bros. What I think is that Biden's calm, low key personality lend themselves to that interpretation of his candidacy, and that in this election year, that is not a bad thing. People are exhausted by Trump's braggadocio, histrionics and nastiness, and Biden is the antidote. I've been hearing for a long time that personalities win elections more than policies do. Well that is an advantage for Biden. As to policy, that's an advantage too. Center-left policies are pretty much across the board the most popular policies right now according to polls.

Biden has everything for a win on paper. The only things which can derail it are unforced errors, i.e. him saying stupid shit like "you're not black enough," and fake scandals from the right and its Kremlin allies being taken too seriously by the media, like they did with buttery mails.

 

[Fenixgoon]

False.
Natural Gas cant be used to make steel, it requires coke.

Like most things, degrees matter.

energy production accounts for 92.6% of all coal burned in the US.

Annual Coal Reports - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

.

so the energy industry may as well be the entirety of domestic coal consumption.

as for steel, part of it is simply US businesses failing to make investments in their people and facilities. after world war 2, when japan was being rebuilt, their steel mills were upgraded to continuous casting units rather than ingot casters, which allowed them to produce steel much more efficiently.
but hey, that shareholder value is great, right?

 

[sao123]

Like most things, degrees matter.

energy production accounts for 92.6% of all coal burned in the US.

Annual Coal Reports - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

.

so the energy industry may as well be the entirety of domestic coal consumption.

as for steel, part of it is simply US businesses failing to make investments in their people and facilities. after world war 2, when japan was being rebuilt, their steel mills were upgraded to continuous casting units rather than ingot casters, which allowed them to produce steel much more efficiently.
but hey, that shareholder value is great, right?

I've long thought that the entire stock market should be dismantled.
I dont mind living in the meritocracy. retire on personal savings or not at all.

 

[Jhhnn]

Interestingly, only 13% of America is african american, but that is sufficient quantity to tailor national policy to assist them, but its ok to ignore even 20%? I bet you'd make a great ruling class.

Interestingly, I'm willing to accept that 13% as fact. So what? Half the population being rural is not a fact. Dem social policies aid low income families regardless of the color of their skin or the place that they live, anyway.

 

[sao123]

Interestingly, I'm willing to accept that 13% as fact. So what? Half the population being rural is not a fact. Dem social policies aid low income families regardless of the color of their skin or the place that they live, anyway.

Oh... so its ok for you to destroy the quality of someones life, as long as you provide them a social net?
You've still ignored the fact that 20% is greater than 13%.

 

[brycejones]

I've long thought that the entire stock market should be dismantled.
I dont mind living in the meritocracy. retire on personal savings or not at all.

QFP

 

[sao123]

On AOC:

So you're ok with defending elitism as long as they are urban city dwellars right? Seems common around here.
People from Manhattan deserve to shop at Sak's Fifth Avenue, while people from Montana deserve to shop at Dollar Tree, amirite?

 

[UberNeuman]

So you're ok with defending elitism as long as they are urban city dwellars right? Seems common around here.

Everything out of your gob is a pack of delusion and lies.

You are useless. That's not "elitism," that's just a fact of life.

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh... so its ok for you to destroy the quality of someones life, as long as you provide them a social net?
You've still ignored the fact that 20% is greater than 13%.

You go on as the revered jerb creators haven't dumped rural/small town America & the Rust Belt of their own free will and as if GOP policy hasn't enabled it entirely.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Oh... so its ok for you to destroy the quality of someones life, as long as you provide them a social net?
You've still ignored the fact that 20% is greater than 13%.

I like how all of a sudden more means something. Almost like majority rules is a thing now. *Checks federal elections* nope, doesn't check out.

 

[sao123]

Everything out of your gob is a pack of delusion and lies.

You are useless. That's not "elitism," that's just a fact of life.

Elitism is when a person believe that because they can give loans or pass laws, that they are more important than those who produce food, manufacture cars, build roads and bridges, educate young people, and protect the region.
The only lies I see are that the coastal elite are worth the DNA their cells are made of. They arent.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I've long thought that the entire stock market should be dismantled.
I dont mind living in the meritocracy. retire on personal savings or not at all.

so FYIGM and wage slavery? yeah, that sounds like a great society.

which, ironically, leaves all those coal and steel workers whom you care so much for, completely out to dry.

 

[brycejones]

Elitism is when a person believe that because they can give loans or pass laws, that they are more important than those who produce food, manufacture cars, build roads and bridges, educate young people, and protect the region.
The only lies I see are that the coastal elite are worth the DNA their cells are made of. They arent.

We really need a WOW and HAHA emoji at the same time.

 

[sao123]

so FYIGM and wage slavery? yeah, that sounds like a great society.

which, ironically, leaves all those coal and steel workers whom you care so much for, completely out to dry.

Lol wage slavery.
The barter system was more successful than anything the democrats can rightfully invent now.
Everyone provides their own food or they starve.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So you're ok with defending elitism as long as they are urban city dwellars right? Seems common around here.
People from Manhattan deserve to shop at Sak's Fifth Avenue, while people from Montana deserve to shop at Dollar Tree, amirite?

We learned it from you

 

[fskimospy]

Oh... so its ok for you to destroy the quality of someones life, as long as you provide them a social net?
You've still ignored the fact that 20% is greater than 13%.

You do realize that national policy is heavily tailored towards rural people and rural areas receive absolutely massive federal subsidies, right?

The cities already give rural areas huge amounts of aid. How much more do you want?