I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[woolfe9998]

I'm actually starting to think there is no "real" or "organized" plan to get reelected. There probably is no plan to distract from the Covid anymore. I'm not sure that there is even a plan to pander to his base. Given his level of power that people have given him people assume there is actually something there, but there really isn't. All there is is spontaneous reaction. It only appears as that he is trying to distract, because he is always trying to throw himself into the lime light, and the colossal failures come so fast and furious, that you can't keep track of them all. But that's not by design, its just the way things happen when there is no plan.

From the begining, the only goal is to promote his Brand. His Brand is a smart, courageous, wily, tough, charming, funny, non nonsense, virile, alpha male, who everyone wants to be. Right?. He's a winner who is the greatest at everything and never wrong. He is the dumb person's idea of what a smart person is, a weak person's view of what a strong person is, and a loser's idea of what a successful person is.

Brand promotion is the only reason he ran for president, he didn't have any particular agenda in mind he just thought it would be cool to be able to say he was president. I think a lot of his base pandering is simply operant conditioning. When he says certain things, he gets big cheers at his rallies, and headlines on Fox, so he keeps saying those things.

Only wimps talk about feeling, compromise, coming together and reconciliation. The way to deal with conflict is to bust some heads until you force them into submission. Dirty hairy doesn't say "OK lets talk about this before things get out of hand". He says "make my day!" and the bad guy gives in. So when confronted with a social uprising to injustice, his only plan - send in the troops.

I think that is an extremely accurate description of Trump the man and Trump the POTUS. I think it mildly understates the presence of political calculus only for a couple of reasons.

From the beginning, Trump had political mentors like Steve Bannon, who he got involved with back in 2013. Bannon likely formulated many aspects of Trump's campaign messaging, particularly the immigration wall and general anti-immigration stance. Trump purportedly didn't even know he was supposed to be anti-abortion to win a GOP primary and had to be told this. So some calculus has come from others.

Also, Trump does do things in secret - pernicious things, immoral things, illegal things - to prop up his election chances. I need not catalog them here, obviously. I suppose these can be viewed as more proactive than reactive. But it's all very scattershot - a lie here, a bribe there, an illegal deal here. And of course when it comes to his public behavior he can't control his ego so it all amounts to something not terribly coherent. If you can call smearing an opponent with lies a "political strategy," and I suppose it is, well fine. It's the political strategy of an emotional and mental cripple, even if it happens to work.

I've never bought into this theory that Trump is somehow crazy like a fox (news). He isn't a brilliant political strategist. He's actually a deeply stupid man, and not just relative to other POTUSES, relative to everyone.

 

[eelw]

Lol his political strategy is do the opposite of Obama and gets talking points from Fox

 

[woolfe9998]

And this, there's this, of course

That's sort of a political strategy...

 

[evident]

Joe is what the country needs right now. Steady, boring , mature leadership to right the ship

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm actually starting to think there is no "real" or "organized" plan to get reelected. There probably is no plan to distract from the Covid anymore. I'm not sure that there is even a plan to pander to his base. Given his level of power that people have given him people assume there is actually something there, but there really isn't. All there is is spontaneous reaction. It only appears as that he is trying to distract, because he is always trying to throw himself into the lime light, and the colossal failures come so fast and furious, that you can't keep track of them all. But that's not by design, its just the way things happen when there is no plan.

From the begining, the only goal is to promote his Brand. His Brand is a smart, courageous, wily, tough, charming, funny, non nonsense, virile, alpha male, who everyone wants to be. Right?. He's a winner who is the greatest at everything and never wrong. He is the dumb person's idea of what a smart person is, a weak person's view of what a strong person is, and a loser's idea of what a successful person is.

Brand promotion is the only reason he ran for president, he didn't have any particular agenda in mind he just thought it would be cool to be able to say he was president. I think a lot of his base pandering is simply operant conditioning. When he says certain things, he gets big cheers at his rallies, and headlines on Fox, so he keeps saying those things.

Only wimps talk about feeling, compromise, coming together and reconciliation. The way to deal with conflict is to bust some heads until you force them into submission. Dirty hairy doesn't say "OK lets talk about this before things get out of hand". He says "make my day!" and the bad guy gives in. So when confronted with a social uprising to injustice, his only plan - send in the troops.

Yup, this happened earlier

Trump meets with top campaign aides as reelection fears rise

President Donald Trump met with top political aides at the White House on Thursday, a source familiar with the meeting tells CNN, as numerous public polls show the Republican leader significantly underperforming his 2016 pace in key battleground states, raising fears of defeat in November.

www.cnn.com

 

[Jhhnn]

Yup, this happened earlier

Trump meets with top campaign aides as reelection fears rise

President Donald Trump met with top political aides at the White House on Thursday, a source familiar with the meeting tells CNN, as numerous public polls show the Republican leader significantly underperforming his 2016 pace in key battleground states, raising fears of defeat in November.

www.cnn.com

Having himself surrounded by sycophants means nobody will tell him that he's blowing it. Shee-it. He's already blown it irretrievably barring some sort of miracle. They sure won't tell him that or anything that might kick them off the gravy train.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Having himself surrounded by sycophants means nobody will tell him that he's blowing it. Shee-it. He's already blown it irretrievably barring some sort of miracle. They sure won't tell him that or anything that might kick them off the gravy train.

Appears they told him stuff like stop dividing the country. Surprise! He didn’t listen or more accurately he is incapable of understanding.

Trump shares letter that calls peaceful protesters 'terrorists'

President Donald Trump on Thursday shared a letter on Twitter that referred to the peaceful protesters who were forcibly dispersed from a park near the White House on Monday evening as "terrorists."

www.cnn.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268675068814659584

 

[UberNeuman]

Appears they told him stuff like stop dividing the country. Surprise! He didn’t listen or more accurately he is incapable of understanding.

Trump shares letter that calls peaceful protesters 'terrorists'

President Donald Trump on Thursday shared a letter on Twitter that referred to the peaceful protesters who were forcibly dispersed from a park near the White House on Monday evening as "terrorists."

www.cnn.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268675068814659584

He's not going to stop. He can't. He and his poisoned crew are going to face major legal trouble/jail if they can't hold control. It's going to get worse.

 

[UberNeuman]

NoTrump was not enough for Hillary to win, but Trump has so greatly bungled the federal response to COVID-19 and the Floyd protests, that I don’t see any path for him to win. Not sure that Trump even wants the job at this point save that it’s the only thing keeping him out of prison.

All he needed to do was competently manage COVID-19 and display some empathy towards the Floyd protestors, and he could have handily won.

Instead, Trump and the GOP have lowered the bar such that Biden’s liabilities are irrelevant at this point.

lol. If I could roll my eyes harder they'd pop out of godamn skull and roll down the pavement, over the street, into the storm drain.

y'know, people can see your previous defenses of Trump's mangling of dealing with COVID-19 and the love for Swedens COVID-19 approach.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Unfortunately, you've shown us all that the only reason you're in any discussion here is to tear down the Democrats. Your promotion of Tara Reade's scurrilous & utterly preposterous accusations showed that entirely. Starbuck did the same. When the GOP tries to re-animate the corpse of Ukrainian corruption you'll be right on that, too, I suspect. Maybe you can give us the creepy Joe & the senile Joe routines while you're at it.

Trump being a horrible person doesn’t make Biden a better candidate. There is a reason Biden’s prior Presidential runs never went anywhere. Biden couldn’t beat a John McCain or Mitt Romney.

You should be happy. Trump has so lowered the bar that even Joe Biden can be President.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Trump being a horrible person doesn’t make Biden a better candidate. There is a reason Biden’s prior Presidential runs never went anywhere. Biden couldn’t beat a John McCain or Mitt Romney.

You should be happy. Trump has so lowered the bar that even Joe Biden can be President.

which there is nothing wrong with that! Trump never did have the bar raised very high anyways....nice try though

 

[nickqt]

...Trump has so lowered the bar that even Joe Biden can be President.

[Republican voters have] so lowered the bar that even Joe Biden can be President.

Everyone else knew that voting for and electing Strongman Trump was a huge fucking mistake for the country, the citizens, and the world.

Gotta keep that BothSidesDoIt™ cred though, so keep it up!

 

[Jhhnn]

Trump being a horrible person doesn’t make Biden a better candidate.

He'll do just fine if Trump doesn't seize power in the meanwhile.

 

[eelw]

Not reassuring, but this is the current situation. 60% of Biden supporters only choosing him because he’s not Trump.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Trump being a horrible person doesn’t make Biden a better candidate. There is a reason Biden’s prior Presidential runs never went anywhere. Biden couldn’t beat a John McCain or Mitt Romney.

You should be happy. Trump has so lowered the bar that even Joe Biden can be President.

Let us for the moment agree to the hypothetical that Biden is a terrible candidate.

You realize that means that Republicans actively chose someone worse, right?

And as with all races, you don't need to be the fastest, you just need to be faster than your opponent. Biden doesn't have to be the perfect candidate (TM). He just needs to be better than Trump. Which he is.

 

[Commodus]

Not reassuring, but this is the current situation. 60% of Biden supporters only choosing him because he’s not Trump.

It's reassuring in a sense, as it shows that many people understand the goal: the most important thing for the country, and indeed the entire planet, is getting Trump out of office. We can nitpick over Biden when he's had some time in office and we know well he's done in erasing Trump's damage.

 

[eelw]

But what’s changed for Biden these past 4 years? If he ran to replace Obama in 2016, he would have easily won. Was there issues when he was picked for the ticket in 2008?

 

[woolfe9998]

Trump being a horrible person doesn’t make Biden a better candidate. There is a reason Biden’s prior Presidential runs never went anywhere. Biden couldn’t beat a John McCain or Mitt Romney.

You should be happy. Trump has so lowered the bar that even Joe Biden can be President.

Biden is a flawed candidate. However, if he was as shitty a candidate as you claim, then why has he consistently led Trump in the polls more than any other candidate in the dem primary? And more so than HRC at this point in time.

Biden has downsides, but his biggest upside is that his personality contrasts so sharply with that of Trump. You may be right, that this wouldn't have been enough to defeat a more reasonable republican, but Biden might just be the right candidate at this time to defeat Trump.

 

[fskimospy]

Biden is a flawed candidate. However, if he was as shitty a candidate as you claim, then why has he consistently led Trump in the polls more than any other candidate in the dem primary? And more so than HRC at this point in time.

Biden has downsides, but his biggest upside is that his personality contrasts so sharply with that of Trump. You may be right, that this wouldn't have been enough to defeat a more reasonable republican, but Biden might just be the right candidate at this time to defeat Trump.

Is this thread really about how the guy who has led nearly every single poll in both primary and general election races for the entirety of his candidacy and appears to be up double digits currently is a bad candidate? I guess people really have a problem with letting go of their bad opinions.

The best candidate (in an electoral sense) is the one that gets the most votes. It doesn’t matter why people are voting for him, just that they do. A centrist candidate like Biden may be less appealing to liberals but he’s probably much more appealing to the center right, and liberal votes are probably in the bag already.

As far as I can tell the prevailing wisdom as to why Biden has been winning wire to wire is that people support him for ‘bad’ reasons, as if they matters in the slightest.

 

[Commodus]

But what’s changed for Biden these past 4 years? If he ran to replace Obama in 2016, he would have easily won. Was there issues when he was picked for the ticket in 2008?

I don't know that things have to have changed.

As I like to put it, you're really voting for the "Reasonable Levels of Competence and Integrity 2020" campaign with Biden. He's not a charismatic persona like Obama, but he values 'radical' concepts like science, compassion and qualified leaders.

 

[woolfe9998]

Is this thread really about how the guy who has led nearly every single poll in both primary and general election races for the entirety of his candidacy and appears to be up double digits currently is a bad candidate? I guess people really have a problem with letting go of their bad opinions.

The best candidate (in an electoral sense) is the one that gets the most votes. It doesn’t matter why people are voting for him, just that they do. A centrist candidate like Biden may be less appealing to liberals but he’s probably much more appealing to the center right, and liberal votes are probably in the bag already.

As far as I can tell the prevailing wisdom as to why Biden has been winning wire to wire is that people support him for ‘bad’ reasons, as if they matters in the slightest.

I think the reason Biden has done better head-to-head even than the other moderate dems is that people want a return to civility after the rhetorical meat grinder we've been through, and that is a trait he seems to exemplify more than any of them.

But you're right. It doesn't matter why people will vote for him. Only that they will.

 

[Stokely]

Agreed, if ever we needed a younger inspiring candidate handy with a speech...Joe is a bumbling fool, he always has been but now he's half-senile. (still miles better than Trump but inspiring he is NOT.)

I said the same thing in 2016 though. Hillary may be a good administrator but she is a terrible candidate.

I personally think the hero worship thing is stupid, we need to be as excited about the President as we are in bringing in a new school board administrator. The people they hire, and their ability to listen to them, is what really matters. But that's not how it works. People want to be "inspired" to vote, fucking morons. Like a bunch of speeches will have shit to do with policy, or who gets added to the Supreme and other courts (for life!)

So, knowing that who gets elected is really about 1) fear and 2) excitement....not sure Joe is going to win either. Fear is how Trump won, playing on white America's fears. Joe needs to get people excited. Not sure that is going to happen.

 

[VRAMdemon]

To win IMO...Joe needs to stand for something, rather than simply not being Trump. It's not going to be enough to just "not be Trump"

Republican candidates win with reaction - motivating voters by scaring or angering them. Joe needs to win aspirationally. Can he do this?...it remains to be seen.

So just running as 'Trump's an idiot' - as Hillary did to a certain extent - isn't enough to get people out to the polls. Instead it's important to give the people a reason to vote for him.

The best campaign Biden could run would have him never mention Trump at all. Let others like the Lincoln project and all the others attack him. Biden should focus on what he wants to do and how people will be better off when he's president. When reporters - inevitably - bring up something Trump says or does Biden can brush it off with a "'Sure, but what's really important is making sure everyone has healthcare or retirement or a good education or whatever.

Make Trump tangential to his campaign. Trump's going to be taking shots at Biden the entire time so it's not like Biden has to define himself as being opposed to Trump. Trump's going to make that clear. That frees up Biden to argue in favor - not of a return to normalcy - but rather to coming out of our current mess better and stronger.

 

[fskimospy]

I disagree with all of this. This election is a referendum on Trump, period. Joe Biden needs to be Not Trump.

 

[woolfe9998]

To win IMO...Joe needs to stand for something, rather than simply not being Trump. It's not going to be enough to just "not be Trump"

Republican candidates win with reaction - motivating voters by scaring or angering them. Joe needs to win aspirationally. Can he do this?...it remains to be seen.

So just running as 'Trump's an idiot' - as Hillary did to a certain extent - isn't enough to get people out to the polls. Instead it's important to give the people a reason to vote for him.

The best campaign Biden could run would have him never mention Trump at all. Let others like the Lincoln project and all the others attack him. Biden should focus on what he wants to do and how people will be better off when he's president. When reporters - inevitably - bring up something Trump says or does Biden can brush it off with a "'Sure, but what's really important is making sure everyone has healthcare or retirement or a good education or whatever.

Make Trump tangential to his campaign. Trump's going to be taking shots at Biden the entire time so it's not like Biden has to define himself as being opposed to Trump. Trump's going to make that clear. That frees up Biden to argue in favor - not of a return to normalcy - but rather to coming out of our current mess better and stronger.

To some extent I agree. Biden does need to stand for something. But I will say that being the anti [other guy] holds more currency than it did in prior elections. Because Trump is not an ordinary opponent. Fortunately, to be the anti-Trump doesn't require him to continually attack Trump. It just requires him to set up a sharp contrast by not acting like Trump. And he doesn't. He has a warm, likable personality. It comes naturally to him just like being a dick comes naturally to Trump. Yes, he does need to articulate a vision, but policy is less influential on election results than is personality.

Mainly the policy articulation is to shore up the base. The swing voters, many of them, have mixed policy views. Some may even agree with Trump on policy 3 times out of 5, but think Trump is an unpalatable jackass.