I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[brycejones]

I mean, I might (might!) be able to buy something like it for the urban core, but including the suburbs? It just seems really unlikely.

Pew says 25%, I cited it above.

 

[ewdotson]

Oh, hey, thanks! I had somehow managed to miss your post.

 

[nakedfrog]

Yes.


You are comparing apples and oranges. Rural people do not benefit from city busses... do you agree that they are EXCLUSIVE?
Interstates exist across the state, and in the city. They DO NOT EXIST IN RURAL TOWNS. Any money that pays anything toward the INTERSTATE does not BY DEFINITION support rural people in rural communities.


Yes. That money comes from rurals peoples fuel taxes. Congratulations, you finally realize that rurals peoples taxes support themselves.



71% of philadelphia and surrounding suburbs commute to work in a method other than driving a car.
44% of Pittsburgh and surrounding suburbs commute to work in a manner other than driving a car.
So no, those fuel taxes from 39% and 56% of the population are INSUFFICIENT to pay for all the roads and bridges in the city and suburbs. Pittsburgh has the MOST bridges of all cities in the united states.
They don't take money off the city to pay for other things, when the city can't pay for itself...

I wonder what happens to those rural places if they were to stop receiving goods that had to travel via interstate.

 

[brycejones]

I wonder what happens to those rural places if they were to stop receiving goods that had to travel via interstate.

Or being able to efficiently send their good out on interstates.

 

[K1052]

I have to say that the naked swerve by Trump into a staunch pro-Confederacy platform is a bold choice.

 

[brycejones]

I have to say that the naked swerve by Trump into a staunch pro-Confederacy platform is a bold choice.

Tom Cotton can’t wait to see how it works out.

 

[K1052]

Tom Cotton can’t wait to see how it works out.

All part of the well planned outreach to African American voters. The Trump Campaign Death Star is warming up.

 

[brycejones]

All part of the well planned outreach to African American voters. The Trump Campaign Death Star is warming up.

So far all the Trump campaign has done on that front is throw 🔧 that boomerang back at them and they suck at dodging 🔧.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So far all the Trump campaign has done on that front is throw 🔧 that boomerang back at them and they suck at dodging 🔧.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a draft?

 

[K1052]

So far all the Trump campaign has done on that front is throw 🔧 that boomerang back at them and they suck at dodging 🔧.

It is rather remarkable to watch him do the dumbest most self destructive kinds of base service in the middle of a general election. Those aren't the people you need to convince numb nuts. The racist vote is already in the bag.

 

[sao123]

Rural people don't use interstates? The goods that "rural" people create don't use interstates to get to market? Your assertion that interstates don't benefit rural people is illogical in the extreme.

My assertion is that money is being taken away form Rural residents to pay for services they do not benefit from. AKA Mass Transit.
No money is taken away from the city to pay for services that benefit exclusively rural residents.
See the difference? Shared assets do not matter in this context.

This says 25% not 71% What is your source?

Infographics: Who drives in Philadelphia, and who doesn't? - WHYY

whyy.org

In the Core, 39% of commuters walk to work, while fully 71% are able to commute to work without a car,” they wrote, while “in the extended neighborhoods, 56% commute without a car.

Source?

New Commutes: Analyzing the changing ways Pittsburghers get to work

“People will bike if they feel it is safe for them to do so.”

www.pghcitypaper.com

See the graph. If 56% of people drive to work from the city to the city. 44% do not.

 

[blankslate]

It's not about Joe Biden winning...

So much as it is that Trump's totally amateurish and criminally negligent reaction to the pandemic is finally proving that Trump is his own worst enemy and he will the one to defeat himself if anyone does.


________________

 

[pmv]

No money is taken away from the city to pay for services that benefit exclusively rural residents.

Here in UK, as in most countries, most services are vastly more-expensive to provide in rural areas because of the low-population density, hence are cross-subsidised by urban areas. Buses, Post offices and post delivery, police, telephone, electricity, banks, roads, other utilities, all cost more becuase of the longer-distances and lower population-density.
Car travel is not taxed at the level it ought to be, given the environmental costs it imposes on others, because rural people are so reliant on it.

Is it different in the US?

 

[ch33zw1z]

My assertion is that money is being taken away form Rural residents to pay for services they do not benefit from. AKA Mass Transit.
No money is taken away from the city to pay for services that benefit exclusively rural residents.
See the difference? Shared assets do not matter in this context.

Infographics: Who drives in Philadelphia, and who doesn't? - WHYY

whyy.org

In the Core, 39% of commuters walk to work, while fully 71% are able to commute to work without a car,” they wrote, while “in the extended neighborhoods, 56% commute without a car.

New Commutes: Analyzing the changing ways Pittsburghers get to work

“People will bike if they feel it is safe for them to do so.”

www.pghcitypaper.com

See the graph. If 56% of people drive to work from the city to the city. 44% do not.

A for effort. F for fail.

 

[brycejones]

My assertion is that money is being taken away form Rural residents to pay for services they do not benefit from. AKA Mass Transit.
No money is taken away from the city to pay for services that benefit exclusively rural residents.
See the difference? Shared assets do not matter in this context.

More goal post moving.

Infographics: Who drives in Philadelphia, and who doesn't? - WHYY

whyy.org

In the Core, 39% of commuters walk to work, while fully 71% are able to commute to work without a car,” they wrote, while “in the extended neighborhoods, 56% commute without a car.

You just moved the goal posts to another planet. You said Philadelphia (most people would be talking about the metro area) and suddenly are discussing a very small geographic part of that geographic area to cherry pick a stat.

When you again look at the metro area which is an honest way to discuss commuting the study I linked to earlier is a more accurate representation. I would also like to point out what Philly (the city) is 1.5M the metro area is 6.1M in population. So again there are literally millions of people driving cars and paying gas taxes living in the Philadelphia metro area. By your own article the rate of car ownership within the city of Philadelphia is 67% of households having 1 more cars. So many people who may commute during the week using public transit still have a car and still pay taxes for gas and license fees, etc, etc, etc that are used to maintain the roads.

New Commutes: Analyzing the changing ways Pittsburghers get to work

“People will bike if they feel it is safe for them to do so.”

www.pghcitypaper.com

See the graph. If 56% of people drive to work from the city to the city. 44% do not.

The graph you are referring to measures "drive alone commuters" AKA people in their car. Its also 56% ONLY for city of Pittsburgh. Alleghany county is over 70% for the same metric and the region (AKA Metro) is over 75%.

BTW 300K people live in Pittsburgh and over 2.7M live in the metro area.

 

[brycejones]

Here in UK, as in most countries, most services are vastly more-expensive to provide in rural areas because of the low-population density, hence are cross-subsidised by urban areas. Buses, Post offices and post delivery, police, telephone, electricity, banks, roads, other utilities, all cost more becuase of the longer-distances and lower population-density.
Car travel is not taxed at the level it ought to be, given the environmental costs it imposes on others, because rural people are so reliant on it.

Is it different in the US?

He ignored my question when I asked him to break out the revenue from rural areas to what they received.

 

[ch33zw1z]

More goal post moving.





You just moved the goal posts to another planet. You said Philadelphia (most people would be talking about the metro area) and suddenly are discussing a very small geographic part of that geographic area to cherry pick a stat.

When you again look at the metro area which is an honest way to discuss commuting the study I linked to earlier is a more accurate representation. I would also like to point out what Philly (the city) is 1.5M the metro area is 6.1M in population. So again there are literally millions of people driving cars and paying gas taxes living in the Philadelphia metro area. By your own article the rate of car ownership within the city of Philadelphia is 67% of households having 1 more cars. So many people who may commute during the week using public transit still have a car and still pay taxes for gas and license fees, etc, etc, etc that are used to maintain the roads.




The graph you are referring to measures "drive alone commuters" AKA people in their car. Its also 56% ONLY for city of Pittsburgh. Alleghany county is over 70% for the same metric and the region (AKA Metro) is over 75%.

BTW 300K people live in Pittsburgh and over 2.7M live in the metro area.

I dunno man, I think traffic jams are a liberal deep state conspiracy.

 

[fskimospy]

My assertion is that money is being taken away form Rural residents to pay for services they do not benefit from. AKA Mass Transit.
No money is taken away from the city to pay for services that benefit exclusively rural residents.
See the difference? Shared assets do not matter in this context.

Infographics: Who drives in Philadelphia, and who doesn't? - WHYY

whyy.org

In the Core, 39% of commuters walk to work, while fully 71% are able to commute to work without a car,” they wrote, while “in the extended neighborhoods, 56% commute without a car.

This was your original statement:

71% of philadelphia and surrounding suburbs commute to work in a method other than driving a car.

Now you're saying that 71% in one small part of only the city itself do that. You should admit you were wrong.

New Commutes: Analyzing the changing ways Pittsburghers get to work

“People will bike if they feel it is safe for them to do so.”

www.pghcitypaper.com

See the graph. If 56% of people drive to work from the city to the city. 44% do not.
[/QUOTE]

You failed to read your own graph, that 56% is 'driving alone'. That means if anyone is carpooling they are not counting either the passenger OR the driver in that percentage.

Urban roads are VASTLY cheaper from a per-person service perspective as they cost about the same amount to build but far more people use them, as pmv notes. Rural areas don't generate enough tax revenue to pay for a lot of the infrastructure they need, that's why they rely on urban areas for help. Your denial of reality is getting weird of this point.

 

[brycejones]

I dunno man, I think traffic jams are a liberal deep state conspiracy.

For some reason sao123 wants to ignore 75% of the state's population and claim they contribute nothing and have no influence on his ability to live in a modern society in the middle of bum fuck PA.


BTW here is a couple of interesting tidbits.

Income:

• In 2018, per capita personal income in rural Pennsylvania counties was $45,685, or $14,334 less than the urban per capita income of $60,019. (U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis)
• In 2018, 41 percent of total personal income in rural Pennsylvania came from unearned sources, such as interest, dividends and rent, and from government transfer payments, like Social Security and unemployment compensation. In urban counties, these unearned income sources accounted for 36 percent of total personal income. (U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis)

Education:
In 2017-2018, rural school districts spent an average of $17,315 per student, an increase of about 14 percent from 2010. Urban school districts spent an average of $17,665 per student, an increase of about 11 percent from 2010. (Pennsylvania Department of Education)

sao123 has mentioned spending $6K a year to send his kids to elementary school out of pocket. I can only assume he is referring to a private religious school since his numbers don't align with what public schools spend there.

I would also like to point out that despite being totally inaccurate about everything sao123 still believes that cities are stealing his money and holding back rural areas, and I'm 99% sure he votes.

 

[ch33zw1z]

For some reason sao123 wants to ignore 75% of the state's population and claim they contribute nothing and have no influence on his ability to live in a modern society in the middle of bum fuck PA.


BTW here is a couple of interesting tidbits.

Income:

• In 2018, per capita personal income in rural Pennsylvania counties was $45,685, or $14,334 less than the urban per capita income of $60,019. (U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis)
• In 2018, 41 percent of total personal income in rural Pennsylvania came from unearned sources, such as interest, dividends and rent, and from government transfer payments, like Social Security and unemployment compensation. In urban counties, these unearned income sources accounted for 36 percent of total personal income. (U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis)

Education:
In 2017-2018, rural school districts spent an average of $17,315 per student, an increase of about 14 percent from 2010. Urban school districts spent an average of $17,665 per student, an increase of about 11 percent from 2010. (Pennsylvania Department of Education)

sao123 has mentioned spending $6K a year to send his kids to elementary school out of pocket. I can only assume he is referring to a private religious school since his numbers don't align with what public schools spend there.

I would also like to point out that despite being totally inaccurate about everything sao123 still believes that cities are stealing his money and holding back rural areas, and I'm 99% sure he votes.

Americans need each other. I'm not sure why rural folks get all bent out of shape about it.

 

[ewdotson]

No money is taken away from the city to pay for services that benefit exclusively rural residents.

Aside from the wildly misrepresented commuting statistics others have noted, I don't think this is true.

Resources - Center for Rural PA

Canva - Responsive HTML5 Template

www.rural.palegislature.us

 

[brycejones]

Aside from the wildly misrepresented commuting statistics others have noted, I don't think this is true.

Resources - Center for Rural PA

Canva - Responsive HTML5 Template

www.rural.palegislature.us

I have finally figured him out. He is talking about 100 feet of dirt driveway from his house to the county maintained dirt road. No city slicker paid anything for that dirt driveway.

 

[brycejones]

What happened to @sao123 ?

 

[sao123]

What happened to @sao123 ?

Work... as in some of us still have to go there despite the Covid-19, the riots, the looting, and everything else going on in the world.

 

[brycejones]

Work... as in some of us still have to go there despite the Covid-19, the riots, the looting, and everything else going on in the world.

ok, let us know when you get a chance to review the errors you made in evaluating the studies you linked.

Stay safe working on your farm.