I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[Grey_Beard]

Well, I haven't looked into the French system since the ACA was being put forward. I've looked at Germany more recently out of curiosity based on a mention in something else I read. So, I don't positively know which model would be the 'best' for the US; just that the German model looks like a good one.

The German system is very good. I have done research on a few European systems over the years. It a,ways amazes me that these nations built these systems right after WWII when most of their physical infrastructure was destroyed. They first decided to revamp the health care system before building most of the infrastructure back. It amazes me that over a 100 year span, the US has failed numerous times to make that happen, but we love to tout that we are the best. Best at overspending.

 

[Grey_Beard]

I disagree. Our most celebrated Presidents are the ones who were bold, visionary leaders. There is a reason that Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, Jefferson and Eisenhower consistently rank in the top 10.

Had to come back to this quote to reiterate that the topics of today have failed even this group. You mention FDR, Truman and Eisenhower as great leaders. I agree, but they all failed at getting health care for all, government supported health care, socialized medicine or Medicare for All, whatever you call it. Think about what they each accomplished, but failed at this. The closet we have gotten is the ACA. Interesting though that you feel “leadership” or “vision” would have done it when your examples of “leadership” and “vision” failed multiple times to even get that far.

Perspective is not one of your sharpest skills. Interesting too that the three I mentioned where in succession. Even JFK tried to get this task moving but could not since he was assassinated. LBJ did take the reigns and got a Medicare and a Medicaid done. That and the ACA are the furthest steps taken in this process. Steps matter. You dream or have a “vision” but if you never start it or move toward it, it’s a fallacy and definitely not “leadership.”

 

[Brainonska511]

Markey deserves to be primaried. It took him like a year to put out a subpoena for Trumps tax records. Kept wondering WTF was wrong with him.

Markey is in the senate. How could he have gotten a subpoena?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Had to come back to this quote to reiterate that the topics of today have failed even this group. You mention FDR, Truman and Eisenhower as great leaders. I agree, but they all failed at getting health care for all, government supported health care, socialized medicine or Medicare for All, whatever you call it. Think about what they each accomplished, but failed at this. The closet we have gotten is the ACA. Interesting though that you feel “leadership” or “vision” would have done it when your examples of “leadership” and “vision” failed multiple times to even get that far.

None of them set out to achieve that vision. You are judging them based on contemporary criteria. There is a reason that historians consistently rank these Presidents in the top ten. They rose to the occasion of their times.

Perspective is not one of your sharpest skills. Interesting too that the three I mentioned where in succession. Even JFK tried to get this task moving but could not since he was assassinated. LBJ did take the reigns and got a Medicare and a Medicaid done. That and the ACA are the furthest steps taken in this process. Steps matter. You dream or have a “vision” but if you never start it or move toward it, it’s a fallacy and definitely not “leadership.”

My perspective is fine, it just doesn’t align with yours.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Leadership without the will of the people is authoritarianism, dictatorship. Leadership is at a minimum not standing in the way of the will of the people, something that Trump and the GOP is very good at... i.e. standing in the way of the will of the people.

I don’t consider Trump to be a leader

 

[ivwshane]

Lol ‘you have to judge them in the context of their time’, while you ignore the current context that we live in and that Obama operated in.

Good god do you even hear yourself?!

 

[Starbuck1975]

Lol ‘you have to judge them in the context of their time’, while you ignore the current context that we live in and that Obama operated in.

Good god do you even hear yourself?!

Obama stumbled and the opposition party exploited it politically as opposition parties do. The leaders I cited did not stumble in a way that derailed their ability to lead. Maybe you should try listening for a change.

 

[Ajay]

The German system is very good. I have done research on a few European systems over the years. It a,ways amazes me that these nations built these systems right after WWII when most of their physical infrastructure was destroyed. They first decided to revamp the health care system before building most of the infrastructure back. It amazes me that over a 100 year span, the US has failed numerous times to make that happen, but we love to tout that we are the best. Best at overspending.

And that was the trick, they built up this system before corporate hacks (lobbyists) and the wealthy started running the country (in the 70's).
Was hoping Joe's 'build it back better' would have been more imaginative than using Medicare. Still, it may be the best we can get (if independent gov't negotiated drug prices is included).

 

[fskimospy]

We should all note that Starbuck has still not detailed a single thing Obama should have done differently.

 

[nickqt]

Obama stumbled and the opposition party exploited it politically as opposition parties do. The leaders I cited did not stumble in a way that derailed their ability to lead. Maybe you should try listening for a change.

In your reality, does "stumble" mean blocked by Senate Republicans who all agreed to refuse to pass anything that he wanted to be enacted?

Do you know how the Senate works?

Keep on with that "stumble" nonsense since it fulfills your BothSidesDoIt™ quota.

If only Obama had led Republicans who were never going to vote for anything he wanted, then something something Obama wouldn't have stumbled or whatever.

Hilariously delusional analysis.

 

[ivwshane]

Stupid Obama! Had he not stumbled Republicans wouldn’t have agreed to block everything and anything by Obama on the night he was inaugurated. What a shitty leader he was!!

What a delusional twat!

 

[Starbuck1975]

In your reality, does "stumble" mean blocked by Senate Republicans who all agreed to refuse to pass anything that he wanted to be enacted?

Do you know how the Senate works?

Keep on with that "stumble" nonsense since it fulfills your BothSidesDoIt™ quota.

If only Obama had led Republicans who were never going to vote for anything he wanted, then something something Obama wouldn't have stumbled or whatever.

Hilariously delusional analysis.

If you’re going to take on a seismic shift to national health care, you better make sure you have the public support and momentum to implement it. Or better yet, you take the momentum of your election victory to take on smaller wins and shore up legislative support by splintering the opposition.

I thought it was curious that Obama made health care his first legislative push considering the war on terror and the economy is what got him into the White House...he simply misread the mood of the electorate.

Obama took on health care without the momentum or public support to sustain the effort, and the government’s botching of the website rollout only further hurt public support.

He stumbled and it cost the Democrats the legislature.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Stupid Obama! Had he not stumbled Republicans wouldn’t have agreed to block everything and anything by Obama on the night he was inaugurated. What a shitty leader he was!!

What a delusional twat!

Andrew Yang has been reading your posts

 

[nickqt]

If you’re going to take on a seismic shift to national health care, you better make sure you have the public support and momentum to implement it. Or better yet, you take the momentum of your election victory to take on smaller wins and shore up legislative support by splintering the opposition.

I thought it was curious that Obama made health care his first legislative push considering the war on terror and the economy is what got him into the White House...he simply misread the mood of the electorate.

Obama took on health care without the momentum or public support to sustain the effort, and the government’s botching of the website rollout only further hurt public support.

He stumbled and it cost the Democrats the legislature.

Wow. You're delusions are so deep you can't describe reality in any objective observable way.

Republicans met on inauguration night to plan their opposition to anything Obama attempted to enact.

Even though Republicans attempted to stop Obama from enacting anything...you postulate that Obama stumbled with health care?

By healthcare, you mean the ACA, the actually enacted health care law that's the law of the land?

So, for you "stumble" would be defined as "prevented from getting something done because of third parties".

And "stumble" would also be defined as "getting something done that was intended to be done".

Yikes. That's some right-out-in-the-open cognitive dissonance right there.

Grab a dictionary man, the internet is full of free ones. "Stumble" doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[ivwshane]

If you’re going to take on a seismic shift to national health care, you better make sure you have the public support and momentum to implement it. Or better yet, you take the momentum of your election victory to take on smaller wins and shore up legislative support by splintering the opposition.

I thought it was curious that Obama made health care his first legislative push considering the war on terror and the economy is what got him into the White House...he simply misread the mood of the electorate.

Obama took on health care without the momentum or public support to sustain the effort, and the government’s botching of the website rollout only further hurt public support.

He stumbled and it cost the Democrats the legislature.

What the fuck are you talking about?! Obama’s earliest accomplishments were with regards to the economy. Healthcare reform was also one of the top concerns of the electorate as well.

I can’t tell if you are just senile or really ignorant.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

What the fuck are you talking about?! Obama’s earliest accomplishments were with regards to the economy. Healthcare reform was also one of the top concerns of the electorate as well.

I can’t tell if you are just senile or really ignorant.

Indeed he did. He made absolute sure that all the black and brown folks were promptly removed/evicted from their middle class homes.

He also made sure for those that had mortgages that were upside down that they reassured the failing banks would be A-Okay no matter how responsible they were.

 

[Wreckem]

Indeed he did. He made absolute sure that all the black and brown folks were promptly removed/evicted from their middle class homes.

He also made sure for those that had mortgages that were upside down that they reassured the failing banks would be A-Okay no matter how responsible they were.

More revisionist history here. I like how you think Obama was responsible for a program passed by Congress and signed into law by Bush.

Bush and the republicans bailed out the Banks. Obama and the Democrats passed stimulus known as ARRA, with an assist by the Bush Admin but not the GOP.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Wow. You're delusions are so deep you can't describe reality in any objective observable way.

Republicans met on inauguration night to plan their opposition to anything Obama attempted to enact.

Even though Republicans attempted to stop Obama from enacting anything...you postulate that Obama stumbled with health care?

By healthcare, you mean the ACA, the actually enacted health care law that's the law of the land?

So, for you "stumble" would be defined as "prevented from getting something done because of third parties".

And "stumble" would also be defined as "getting something done that was intended to be done".

Yikes. That's some right-out-in-the-open cognitive dissonance right there.

Grab a dictionary man, the internet is full of free ones. "Stumble" doesn't mean what you think it means.

The 2010 midterms demonstrate otherwise. Howard Dean had a good sense for strategy and the need for a ground game.

 

[nickqt]

The 2010 midterms demonstrate otherwise. Howard Dean had a good sense for strategy and the need for a ground game.

The 2010 midterms demonstrate that more people voted Republican.

It has nothing to do with your incorrect, double-think definition of stumble.

 

[ivwshane]

The 2010 midterms demonstrate that more people voted Republican.

It has nothing to do with your incorrect, double-think definition of stumble.

It’s like he’s not even aware of the context of the 2010 election, the election where republicans went unopposed in a ton of districts, it also ignores the fact that democrats traditionally don’t show up for midterm elections. So yeah, 2010 was a referendum because democrat voters did what they always do, not show up. So who sets the narrative? Those who show up.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The 2010 midterms demonstrate that more people voted Republican.

It has nothing to do with your incorrect, double-think definition of stumble.

Yes, independent voters swung Republican, largely because Obama stumbled with ACA.

 

[Starbuck1975]

It’s like he’s not even aware of the context of the 2010 election, the election where republicans went unopposed in a ton of districts, it also ignores the fact that democrats traditionally don’t show up for midterm elections. So yeah, 2010 was a referendum because democrat voters did what they always do, not show up. So who sets the narrative? Those who show up.

Those sound like excuses

 

[nickqt]

Yes, independent voters swung Republican, largely because Obama stumbled with ACA.

Still using the word stumble to mean whatever you want it to mean doesn't make it so.

 

[ivwshane]

Those sound like excuses

No they are called facts, or as it relates, context. I guess context only matters to you depending on the argument you are trying to make,

 

[Starbuck1975]

Still using the word stumble to mean whatever you want it to mean doesn't make it so.

The Tea Party came into power with the promise of repealing and replacing. They too stumbled as they never truly had a plan for replacing the ACA. I am using the term properly. Andrew Yang must be reading your posts as well.