How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[SPBHM]

Looks like a cheaply built PC.

it doesn't look "cheap" to me,

this (wii U) does

and yes, Skyrim ultra with AA 4x is a lot better than the consoles version,

I think 1280x720 high-medium with FXAA would be more comparable.

 

[sontin]

The APU has 5 billion transistors. And around 3 billions are needed for the eDRAM. :lol:

 

[BallaTheFeared]

They should name it Junk Box™

 

[SPBHM]

The APU has 5 billion transistors. And around 3 billions are needed for the eDRAM. :lol:

are you sure? last time I heard it was around 1.6 billion for the eSRAM

 

[sontin]

We will see what Microsoft will release. But for now i think it's 3,2 billions for the eSRAM.

 

[galego]

So we are 8x the power of the xbox 360 yet equivalent to a 9 TFLOP pc? xbox 360 is nowhere near equivalent to a 1 TFLOP pc.

I don't know what is impressing me more: that you did not get that all the estimations in this thread are for the PS4 (almost nothing is known for the Xbox still) or that after several dozens of pages you still don't get that 1 TFLOP on a console is not the same than a 1 TFLOP on a PC.

Lets do a galego calculation for Haswell.

10-20% IPC boost (greatly exxagerated) + AVX2:2x performance boost (only useful when coded for and only in some cases) + 2x cache bandwidth (which doesn't improve performance but allows AVX2 to function properly) + TSX =5.2x Ivy bridge.

:biggrin:

Of course that's complete BS.

Of course, but call it Enigmoid calculation :biggrin:.

The fact is that adding features does not scale performance linearly.

And who said you the contrary? Please number post in this thread.

For example GDDR5 does almost nothing for cpu performance but will allow HSA and hUMA to function properly.

Are you aware that the equation was computing the performance of the GPU? 1.84 TFLOP is the performance of the GPU. Or do also confound a GPU with a CPU?

 

[Lepton87]

We probably need four modified titans cooled with LN2 and overclocked to the extreme to just match the PS4. Maybe at 1600MHz they might come close, , not to mention 3970X at 6GHz that would be needed to match the CPU.

 

[Cerb]

We will see what Microsoft will release. But for now i think it's 3,2 billions for the eSRAM.

3.2B? Where is that from? The SRAM should only need <=2B.

 

[Sleepingforest]

And who said you the contrary? Please number post in this thread.

You do every time you add up the performance deltas linearly to get a multiplier.

Furthermore, I think you have to account for the fact that developers still have not mastered the new platform, and it will take a few years for them to do so. I'd estimate very differently from you--devs only program direct to metal and fully optimize after the console's lifetime is nearly over. So I'd say it's more like:
1.8 TFLOP * (2x_API_overhead - HSA - hUMA - GDDR5 - close_to_metal) * inexperience = 3.6 TFLOP

Just less than a stock 7970. Of course, assuming your estimates are right, consoles will get to about 9 effective desktop TFLOP of power in a few years, but PCs will outpace that (the 7970 exhibits a 33% increase in TFLOP over the 6970; improvement at that rate will get to 11.4 TFLOP in 4 years).

Of course, this is all estimation and rough guesswork. Really, we'll have to wait for consoles to show up to make any definitive claims.

 

[Nintendesert]

They should name it Junk Box™

BetaBox

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Sony-Betamax-Recorder.jpg

 

[galego]

You do every time you add up the performance deltas linearly to get a multiplier.

Therefore you cannot provide a single post where was said that "adding features scales performance linearly". That is good because nobody was adding linearly anything...

Furthermore, I think you have to account for the fact that developers still have not mastered the new platform, and it will take a few years for them to do so. I'd estimate very differently from you--devs only program direct to metal and fully optimize after the console's lifetime is nearly over.

Good, but this was already said several times before including myself.

So I'd say it's more like:
1.8 TFLOP * (2x_API_overhead - HSA - hUMA - GDDR5 - close_to_metal) * inexperience = 3.6 TFLOP

Just less than a stock 7970.

Ok. Inexperience plays a role, I agree with you, but unlike the previous gen of consoles, which used different hardware and one very difficult to program. The current version uses PC-like hardware and software. Did you read Killzone tech slides claiming that the PS4 is "very easy" to program?

This time we will not wait 7 years before developers learn how to use all the potential. And that is good.

Of course, assuming your estimates are right, consoles will get to about 9 effective desktop TFLOP of power in a few years, but PCs will outpace that (the 7970 exhibits a 33% increase in TFLOP over the 6970; improvement at that rate will get to 11.4 TFLOP in 4 years).

Of course, PCs will outperform consoles again. Several developers, who are already testing the hardware and developing next gen games, have claimed that the PS4 performance is like that of a PC of 2014 or 2015. One expert on graphics cards cited before was more specific and wait that a gaming PC with a graphic performance equivalent to 3 GTX Titans will outperform the PS4.

Of course, this is all estimation and rough guesswork. Really, we'll have to wait for consoles to show up to make any definitive claims.

Of course, it was always said, at least from my part, these are rough estimations. I have emphasized many times that I don't care about the exact number. I don't care if it is 9.2 or 8.1. Only time will say...

 

[Sleepingforest]

Well, I'm glad we agree overall. It definitely took a lot of fighting to get to this middle ground.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

BS, all the UE4 tech demos have run better on current PC hardware than they have on the PS4.

 

[Enigmoid]

I don't know what is impressing me more: that you did not get that all the estimations in this thread are for the PS4 (almost nothing is known for the Xbox still) or that after several dozens of pages you still don't get that 1 TFLOP on a console is not the same than a 1 TFLOP on a PC.



Of course, but call it Enigmoid calculation :biggrin:.



And who said you the contrary? Please number post in this thread.



Are you aware that the equation was computing the performance of the GPU? 1.84 TFLOP is the performance of the GPU. Or do also confound a GPU with a CPU?

1. Its called pulling numbers out of your butt.

For the current consoles GFLOP for GFLOP they are about equivalent to a pc (obviously will be different for newer consoles) with a fair degree of margin (ex 1 AMD GFLOP != 1 intel or nvidia GFLOP). Console ports run fairly on low end discrete gpus of a similar GFLOP rating (of course for the most part these gpus have more vram). Skyrim, dishonoured, mass effect 3, on a gt 630 (~300 GFLOPS) run the same or better than they do on the xbox.

2. If you are not adding features linearly then you are hugely overestimating.


3. There is a difference between explicitly stating something and heavily implying it.


4. You realize that every high end gpu uses GDDR5. PS4 having it is hardly an advantage over a pc (for the gpu).

 

[5150Joker]

We probably need four modified titans cooled with LN2 and overclocked to the extreme to just match the PS4. Maybe at 1600MHz they might come close, , not to mention 3970X at 6GHz that would be needed to match the CPU.

Who knew AMD could pump out such awesome hardware huh? They've obviously been holding out on the PC market all this time! I bet the AMD engineers invented a time machine and brought back the Terminator APU from the future. It is capable of 99 TFLOP - 0.2x_API_overhead - HSA - hUMA - I make shit up- GDDR5 - close_to_silicon (sounds cooler than metal) ~ 110.8 TFLOP That's right, the PS4 Terminator Emotional Engine APU ends up with a net gain of TFLOP!

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Return of FX baby!!

Emotional engine, lol.

 

[notty22]

Who knew AMD could pump out such awesome hardware huh? They've obviously been holding out on the PC market all this time! I bet the AMD engineers invented a time machine and brought back the Terminator APU from the future. It is capable of 99 TFLOP - 0.2x_API_overhead - HSA - hUMA - I make shit up- GDDR5 - close_to_silicon (sounds cooler than metal) ~ 110.8 TFLOP That's right, the PS4 Terminator Emotional Engine APU ends up with a net gain of TFLOP!

LOL, I was going to submit a counter formula also, but you did a nice job, you could add the &#8734; symbol and add OCD in to the equation.

On topic, I'm reading that the PS4 will have 'only' a 250gb drive, while the Xbox one is going to have a 500gb. Does that imply 2X as fast anywhere in the food chain?

 

[2is]

LOL, I was going to submit a counter formula also, but you did a nice job, you could add the &#8734; symbol and add OCD in to the equation.

On topic, I'm reading that the PS4 will have 'only' a 250gb drive, while the Xbox one is going to have a 500gb. Does that imply 2X as fast anywhere in the food chain?

Obviously you can store far larger textures with 500GB so it must mean games will be twice as pretty.

 

[galego]

1. Its called pulling numbers out of your butt.

Unlike you and the other half dozen of poster, whose anti-PS4 claims are based in dozens of benchmarks...

For the current consoles GFLOP for GFLOP they are about equivalent to a pc (obviously will be different for newer consoles) with a fair degree of margin (ex 1 AMD GFLOP != 1 intel or nvidia GFLOP).

Apples and oranges.

2. If you are not adding features linearly then you are hugely overestimating.

And still 5x is very close to the 6-7x leaked by one of the developers.

5x is roughly 2 SLI GTX Titans and since you cannot have 3/2 graphics cards, you need 3 Titans to outperform that 5x and, what coincidence!, that just coincides with the 3 SLI GTX Titans claim made by the graphics analyst in his report on the PS4.

3. There is a difference between explicitly stating something and heavily implying it.

?

4. You realize that every high end gpu uses GDDR5. PS4 having it is hardly an advantage over a pc (for the gpu).

Sure that the GTX-680 or the GTX-Titan mentioned often here have GDDR5. But that was not the point. Did you look GDDR5 being mentioned just after HSA and hUMA. Do you know what those mean? Do you know that no Nvidia GTX graphic card has HSA and hUMA?

 

[Janek1]

Um and this makes PS4 How its better.... it isnt... ? Funny how they try to convince people into buying there crap as it is crap if it had a mouse and a keyboard and Microsoft installed as os then thats a different story all together ! LOL Its a pre installed permanent pc that is for one price tag you buy you have then you buy new again and again. Console is a pre build pc nothing more nothing less.

Its just funny how folks jump on the bandwagon thinking there getting something better which in reality there not. =D

 

[showb1z]

Unlike you and the other half dozen of poster, whose anti-PS4 claims are based in dozens of benchmarks...

The difference is that our theories are extrapolations of existing data and common sense.
Your fantasies are based on a bunch of completely random quotes, often with questionable sources, thrown together and twisted/interpreted in a way to fit your agenda.

And hardly anyone here is "anti-PS4". Anti-BS on the other hand...

5x is roughly 2 SLI GTX Titans and since you cannot have 3/2 graphics cards, you need 3 Titans to outperform that 5x and, what coincidence!, that just coincides with the 3 SLI GTX Titans claim made by the graphics analyst in his report on the PS4.

Care to link that report? Out of light reading material.

 

[Black Octagon]

Anyone know if there's going to be an intermission? I need to refill my box of popcorn and take a whizz

 

[Stuka87]

BS, all the UE4 tech demos have run better on current PC hardware than they have on the PS4.

Of course a high end ~$2000 PC will out perform it. But try it against a PC with a 7850 in it. The PS4 should then out perform it (Not sure by how much, but it should).


As for the XBox, I am thinking MS had to go with lower end hardware because they wanted to include the connect. Which is why they keep dancing around the hardware questions that people are asking. But I think its quite safe to assume that the PS4 has more horse power than the "One".

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

Of course a high end ~$2000 PC will out perform it. But try it against a PC with a 7850 in it. The PS4 should then out perform it (Not sure by how much, but it should).


As for the XBox, I am thinking MS had to go with lower end hardware because they wanted to include the connect. Which is why they keep dancing around the hardware questions that people are asking. But I think its quite safe to assume that the PS4 has more horse power than the "One".

I agree completely, my issue is people on here saying it'll output higher visuals that can only be matched by Titans in SLI which is delusional. The UE4 Infiltrator demo runs on a single GTX 680 and easily looks better than any game currently out and looks superior to all the PS4 demos we have seen so far. People are forgetting that the PS4 is using DX11 hardware used to its fullest potential, but DX11 hardware for PCs has not been fully exploited at all, and the UE4 demo proves it. The PC hasn't had a single proper DX11 game yet, the next gen of consoles will help change that.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I agree completely, my issue is people on here saying it'll output higher visuals that can only be matched by Titans in SLI which is delusional. The UE4 Infiltrator demo runs on a single GTX 680 and easily looks better than any game currently out and looks superior to all the PS4 demos we have seen so far. People are forgetting that the PS4 is using DX11 hardware used to its fullest potential, but DX11 hardware for PCs has not been fully exploited at all, and the UE4 demo proves it. The PC hasn't had a single proper DX11 game yet, the next gen of consoles will help change that.

I still think crysis 3 was much more impressive than the ue4 demos. Especially the first level on the ship.