How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[Cloudfire777]

Here is actually an explanation to why Sony and the developers say PS4 will beat PCs.

Speaking to Gamasutra, Sony’s PlayStation4 lead architect, Mark Cerny, has gone in to a little more depth about the design choices that were made in designing the system’s innards, which they’re calling “Supercharged PC architecture”

"A typical PC GPU has two buses," said Cerny. "There’s a bus the GPU uses to access VRAM, and there is a second bus that goes over the PCI Express that the GPU uses to access system memory. But whichever bus is used, the internal caches of the GPU become a significant barrier to CPU/GPU communication — any time the GPU wants to read information the CPU wrote, or the GPU wants to write information so that the CPU can see it, time-consuming flushes of the GPU internal caches are required.”
​

• "First, we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory, bypassing its own L1 and L2 caches. As a result, if the data that’s being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don’t have issues with synchronization between them anymore. And by small, I just mean small in next-gen terms. We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That’s not very small in today’s terms — it’s larger than the PCIe on most PCs!

• "Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the ‘volatile’ bit. You can then selectively mark all accesses by compute as ‘volatile,’ and when it’s time for compute to read from system memory, it can invalidate, selectively, the lines it uses in the L2. When it comes time to write back the results, it can write back selectively the lines that it uses. This innovation allows compute to use the GPU L2 cache and perform the required operations without significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time — in other words, it radically reduces the overhead of running compute and graphics together on the GPU."

• Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands — the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that’s in the system."

Source: http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/how-the-playstation-4-is-better-than-a-pc/

This farce has gone on long enough
-ViRGE

 

[RadiclDreamer]

How its better.... it isnt

 

[Revolution 11]

First, I don't know anything about the claims laid out here but anyone that says a console will beat a PC sets my BS meter on alert.

Second, the PC hardware ecosystem rapidly changes with better process, better architectures, better optimization. Even if a particular console beats top-end PCs, that will not hold true 2 years from now.

I appreciate all the power the PS4 developers are putting into the console, it will help raise the bar for PC gaming. But don't believe for a second that the "advantages" of the PS4 will outlast PCs for more than 18-24 months.

 

[Stuka87]

I don't doubt the PS4 will be capable of a higher level of graphics than most PC's will be able to handle at launch. An SLI Titan rig is going to have enough horse power to over power most of the advantages a console has.

But as the console ages, PC's will surpass it. Just like we had with the current gen of consoles.

 

[Olikan]

Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands — the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that’s in the system."

that's it....
PS4 is based on SEA ISLANDS.... aka GCN 2.0

 

[Attic]

I'll definitely give it a chance. I expect Sony took good lesson from the pitfalls of the PS3.

That being said,... this "discussion" from this guy is fairly consistent with the tone that was taken pre PS3 launch. So high chance for disappointment relative to what expectations are being set at.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

First, I don't know anything about the claims laid out here but anyone that says a console will beat a PC sets my BS meter on alert.

Second, the PC hardware ecosystem rapidly changes with better process, better architectures, better optimization. Even if a particular console beats top-end PCs, that will not hold true 2 years from now.

I appreciate all the power the PS4 developers are putting into the console, it will help raise the bar for PC gaming. But don't believe for a second that the "advantages" of the PS4 will outlast PCs for more than 18-24 months.

I don't think anyone was making that claim. It's a well known fact that PC hardware will eventually use brute force to do what consoles do with much more inferior hardware.

 

[JAG87]

Lol sure, and the PS5 will have a neural net processor, a learning computah.

I don't think anyone was making that claim. It's a well known fact that PC hardware will eventually use brute force to do what consoles do with much more inferior hardware.

What do consoles do exactly? Run games with DX9 features at 1280x720 with no AA? My Intel HD 4000 can do that.

 

[-Slacker-]

So ...the new blast processing?

I guess "unified memory addressing space" didn't sound as catchy....


UNIFIED MEMORY ADDRESSING SPACE! X-TREME!!!

 

[Stuka87]

Lol sure, and the PS5 will have a neural net processor, a learning computah.





What do consoles do exactly? Run games with DX9 features at 1280x720 with no AA? My Intel HD 4000 can do that.

So are you just trying to troll or do you honestly have zero knowledge of the PS4? Do you honestly think the PS4 is going to play games at 720P with no AA?

 

[Cloudfire777]

that's it....
PS4 is based on SEA ISLANDS.... aka GCN 2.0

You could be right. Atleast it sounds like the upcoming architecture.
GCN: 2*2 queues
GCN 2.0: 8*8 queues

Multi queue compute:
Lets multiple user-level queues of compute workloads be bound to the device and processed simultaneous. Hardware supports up to eight compute pipelines with up to eight queues bound to each pipeline.

Thats just for the GPU architecture though. PS4 use several more better approaches than PC architecture, although I`m not sure I understand exactly what they mean.

 

[Remobz]

Screw PS4!!

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Lol sure, and the PS5 will have a neural net processor, a learning computah.





What do consoles do exactly? Run games with DX9 features at 1280x720 with no AA? My Intel HD 4000 can do that.

Your intel hd4000 was also released around 6 years after the xbox 360. Wouldn't it seem that your PC eventually used brute force to do what a 6 year old console is doing?

 

[Imouto]

I just hope it makes a quiet htpc/nas that happens to run console games when Sony goes under.

 

[lagokc]

"any time the GPU wants to read information the CPU wrote, or the GPU wants to write information so that the CPU can see it, time-consuming flushes of the GPU internal caches are required.”

Congratulations, you just explained how the PS4 will be easier to code for OpenCL than some PCs. What does that have to do with games? Absolutely nothing.

It wouldn't matter what hardware the PS4 had: no mouse, no Total War series, no interest.

 

[Olikan]

Thats just for the GPU architecture though. PS4 use several more better approaches than PC architecture, although I`m not sure I understand exactly what they mean.

most of the other changes go to memory system...
it reduces latencys and memory overheads... makes the system more efficient...

the memory overheads will help the bandwidth in the GPU....BUT don't expect miracles, a 384-bit bus is going to be faster

the big diference is latencyes, the gpu-cpu comunication here seems to be very efficient and fast... and this opens alot of doors, even ray-tracing

 

[JAG87]

So are you just trying to troll or do you honestly have zero knowledge of the PS4? Do you honestly think the PS4 is going to play games at 720P with no AA?

I'm talking about current consoles.

If you want to put things into perspective, in a few years PS4 will be running 1080p with post-AA, whereas PC users will be running high dpi monitors at 2160p with real AA + post AA (like SMAA T2x). So proportionally, what's the difference?

Your intel hd4000 was also released around 6 years after the xbox 360. Wouldn't it seem that your PC eventually used brute force to do what a 6 year old console is doing?

No, not quite. Dedicated GPUs from 6 years ago were already far superior to the 360, I just used the iGPU example to address how lame the 360 is nowadays, not to show that PCs needed brute force to catch up.

After all, you classify a <10W iGPU as brute force? LOL

 

[Stuka87]

I'm talking about current consoles.

If you want to put things into perspective, in a few years PS4 will be running 1080p with post-AA, whereas PC users will be running high dpi monitors at 2160p with real AA + post AA (like SMAA T2x). So proportionally, what's the difference?



No, not quite. Dedicated GPUs from 6 years ago were already far superior to the 360, I just used the iGPU example to address how lame the 360 is nowadays, not to show that PCs needed brute force to catch up.

After all, you classify a <10W iGPU as brute force? LOL

Nobody brought up curent consoles. You did, and then put zero context on your statement.

Dedicated GPU's from 6 years ago were not "Far" superior. They did have more hardware, but they were not able to handle the same workload due to the way consoles are more efficient with a given amount of hardware.

 

[Imouto]

After all, you classify a <10W iGPU as brute force? LOL

90nm -> 22nm
232 m transistors -> 392 m transistors

Seriously.

 

[Rakehellion]

PS4 will beat most gaming PCs for a few years...then it won't.

PC gaming nerds said the same crap about the PS3 when it came out.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I'm talking about current consoles.

If you want to put things into perspective, in a few years PS4 will be running 1080p with post-AA, whereas PC users will be running high dpi monitors at 2160p with real AA + post AA (like SMAA T2x). So proportionally, what's the difference?



No, not quite. Dedicated GPUs from 6 years ago were already far superior to the 360, I just used the iGPU example to address how lame the 360 is nowadays, not to show that PCs needed brute force to catch up.

After all, you classify a <10W iGPU as brute force? LOL

The xbox 360 was unmatched up on release, and the ps4 was ahead of the game for about 1 day until the 8800gtx was released. Wasn't that card like $699? So, a year later, a $699 gpu was better than the consoles at the time. Brute force.

 

[exar333]

It is a sub $500 machine. It will perform as such...

 

[lagokc]

most of the other changes go to memory system...
it reduces latencys and memory overheads... makes the system more efficient...

the memory overheads will help the bandwidth in the GPU....BUT don't expect miracles, a 384-bit bus is going to be faster

the big diference is latencyes, the gpu-cpu comunication here seems to be very efficient and fast... and this opens alot of doors, even ray-tracing

Shuttling information across the PCIe bus is not currently something limiting PC gaming performance. Also the PS4 does not have sufficient hardware to do ray-tracing in real time.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Shuttling information across the PCIe bus is not currently something limiting PC gaming performance. Also the PS4 does not have sufficient hardware to do ray-tracing in real time.

It's not limiting PC gaming performance in terms of bandwidth, but it adds latency which is also bad.

 

[Arkadrel]

"One thing we could have done is drop it down to 128-bit bus, which would drop the bandwidth to 88 gigabytes per second, and then have eDRAM on chip to bring the performance back up again," said Cerny. While that solution initially looked appealing to the team due to its ease of manufacturability, it was abandoned thanks to the complexity it would add for developers. "We did not want to create some kind of puzzle that the development community would have to solve in order to create their games. And so we stayed true to the philosophy of unified memory."

A go a the new Xbox?