How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[Father Torque]

The PS4 spanking the PC for a few years is a good thing,not bad.

 

[Beavermatic]

The PS4 spanking the PC for a few years is a good thing,not bad.

It has to spank it first, and we've long established it doesn't come anywhere close.

 

[itsmydamnation]

It has to spank it first, and we've long established it doesn't come anywhere close.

no you haven't, you have counted flops nothing more.

consider things like
tessellation vs raster throughput vs number of rops vs target rez

everyone here is talking like the PS4 is a PC, its not. Its taking building blocks from AMD which are used in PC's and then via integration creating something thats not directly comparable to your LFN limited highend rig.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

no you haven't, you have counted flops nothing more.

consider things like
tessellation vs raster throughput vs number of rops vs target rez

everyone here is talking like the PS4 is a PC, its not. Its taking building blocks from AMD which are used in PC's and then via integration creating something thats not directly comparable to your LFN limited highend rig.

You have no clue about anything you speak of. Put down the PC magazine that you're getting your technical jargon out of and occupy your time elsewhere. This is the biggest load I've read on these forums and that is no small task.

 

[itsmydamnation]

You have no clue about anything you speak of. Put down the PC magazine that you're getting your technical jargon out of and occupy your time elsewhere. This is the biggest load I've read on these forums and that is no small task.

bull....

its quite simple

tessellation generates geometry/triangles
ROP rasterize in 4x4 pixel quads
ROP's only rasterize pixels in the same triangle
resolution and ROP throughput determines rasterization time

now lets take a highend PC.
target rez 1440P = 3,686,400 pixels
now lets take target of a console game
target rez 720P= 921,600 pixels

So a highend PC needs 4 times the rasterization throughput. Tessellation decreases rasterization throughput. with 16 pixel triangles you have 100% rop utilisation with 1 pixel triangles your ROP's get aprox 7% efficiency.

Now lets say you have something like 32ROP's @ 800mhz. thats 25.6 Gpixels a second @ 100% efficiency and no other bottlenecks etc. if you assume 30FPS thats 33ms or 0.77Gpixels a frame which is heaps right. Sure until you start making your pixels smaller aka tessellation, you start doing depth tests (z), you start doing AA etc.

And that's the point because the PS4 isn't a PC and you aren't sitting 30cm away from it the target output resolution is lower yet pixel pushing power and bandwidth is similar you can run your ROP's at low utilisation and spend more bandwidth per pixel.

....see how I didn't count a single flop

I also love how you would have NFI about what i mean by LFN, I didn't know PC magazines where so interested in RFC's from 1988

So run along and get back to your flop counting and epenis stroking.... k thax bye

 

[Lepton87]

What renders better graphics in games today, 8800Ultra or PS3? Theoretical performance of RSX is 176flops and 8800Ultra puts out 576flops or over 3 times more not to mention vastly improved architecture.

 

[Enigmoid]

What renders better graphics in games today, 8800Ultra or PS3? Theoretical performance of RSX is 176flops and 8800Ultra puts out 576flops or over 3 times more not to mention vastly improved architecture.

I think balla posted some benchmarks of bioshock infinite on the 8800. I believe he could run the game pretty much maxed out at 720p and 30fps.

 

[crisium]

PS4 better not target 720p. I know Sony won't do it, but I really want 1080p to be mandatory. 30fps is fine, but it should be rendering at a full 1920x1080 and there's no reason a 7850 equivalent can't do this.

But the truth is screenshot graphics, which are already cropped, look better at 720. Change it from 1080 to 720 and you can up the textures a little bit, throw in some DX11 lighting, better shadows, etc. But resolution is so much more important imo.

Just look at Bioshock Infinite. The difference between all Ultra and Ultra except DX11 features turned off is slight in terms of IQ. But in terms of FPS it is very significant. On a next gen console port (if it existed), they would likely choose 720 all ultra instead of 1080 and a slightly toned down Ultra.

Give us 1080! Current BF4 rumours for next gen are 720. I'd never buy BF for a console, but you know a desktop with a 7850 will be able to do BF4 at 1920x1080 and even get 60fps. It's called medium settings. But DICE likes to sell screenshots.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

The console doesn't target specific resolutions, developers do, it's a game development trade off between the fidelity of the graphics you run and the target frame rate.

I'm sure plenty of basic 3D games will run in true 1080p, some do on the PS3 already, but I suspect that high end AAA games will likely stick to lower resolutions and boast the new fancy effects.

The problem is that going from 720p or less to true 1080p is going from 921,600 pixels to 2,073,600 which is well over 2x the pixels, you have to spend a decent portion of the additional rendering power of the PS4 in order to render current gen PS3 games at 1080p which eats away at the raw performance they can invest in truly new effects, bigger textures, dynamic lighting, etc.

 

[Beavermatic]

They are already saying the ps4 native target game resolution will be aimed at 720p. Or so I've read out there.

All these people trying to defend the PS4... the relentless hype and therotical excuses you keep bringing up. Why? WHY WHY WHY DO YOU PERSIST IN BEATING A HORSE THATS DEAD ON ARRIVAL?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Ps4 should be able to run games in 4k with a 200w power limit. I heard it here that it is far superior equipment than what is currently available.

 

[Beavermatic]

Ps4 should be able to run games in 4k with a 200w power limit. I heard it here that it is far superior equipment than what is currently available.

Upscaled to 4k resolutions from 720p, lololololololololol. Yeaaaaaaah, really superior there, loloolololol.




This post is a clear example of trolling. "lololololololololol. Yeaaaaaaah, really superior there, loloolololol."

Everybody would be well served to avoid making such posts. It is clearly designed to do nothing more than taunt.

Moderator jvroig

 

[Beavermatic]

Oh and uh, the PS4 is at least 3x less powerful than a titan, or 2x less powerful than a 680, and even less powerful than a 580.... (which is what I've argued from the very start of my ranting)

http://www.gamechup.com/nvidia-ps4s...-than-xbox-720s-gpu-but-3x-slower-than-titan/

and another article showing the PS4 getting whooped as far as "PC to console" tech goes...

http://www.4gamer.net/games/209/G020984/20130330001/

And straight from Nvidia at GDC 2013...

*Also note that while it appears the xbox 360 xenos gpu slightly outperformed the 7800GTX in flops, the 7800GTX actually stomped xenos in overall performance..

 

[Paul98]

As usual the Consoles will get more out of their hardware through the software specifically designed for the hardware.

 

[Jaydip]

bull....

its quite simple

tessellation generates geometry/triangles
ROP rasterize in 4x4 pixel quads
ROP's only rasterize pixels in the same triangle
resolution and ROP throughput determines rasterization time

now lets take a highend PC.
target rez 1440P = 3,686,400 pixels
now lets take target of a console game
target rez 720P= 921,600 pixels

So a highend PC needs 4 times the rasterization throughput. Tessellation decreases rasterization throughput. with 16 pixel triangles you have 100% rop utilisation with 1 pixel triangles your ROP's get aprox 7% efficiency.

Now lets say you have something like 32ROP's @ 800mhz. thats 25.6 Gpixels a second @ 100% efficiency and no other bottlenecks etc. if you assume 30FPS thats 33ms or 0.77Gpixels a frame which is heaps right. Sure until you start making your pixels smaller aka tessellation, you start doing depth tests (z), you start doing AA etc.

And that's the point because the PS4 isn't a PC and you aren't sitting 30cm away from it the target output resolution is lower yet pixel pushing power and bandwidth is similar you can run your ROP's at low utilisation and spend more bandwidth per pixel.

....see how I didn't count a single flop

I also love how you would have NFI about what i mean by LFN, I didn't know PC magazines where so interested in RFC's from 1988

So run along and get back to your flop counting and epenis stroking.... k thax bye

A very big caveat here, you didn't specify IQ at all.Even @ 2560*1600 people try to enforce some AA.Also next gen console will target 1080P(up-scaled or not I'm not sure).

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Oh and uh, the PS4 is at least 3x less powerful than a titan, or 2x less powerful than a 680, and even less powerful than a 580.... (which is what I've argued from the very start of my ranting)

http://www.gamechup.com/nvidia-ps4s...-than-xbox-720s-gpu-but-3x-slower-than-titan/

and another article showing the PS4 getting whooped as far as "PC to console" tech goes...

http://www.4gamer.net/games/209/G020984/20130330001/

And straight from Nvidia at GDC 2013...

*Also note that while it appears the xbox 360 xenos gpu slightly outperformed the 7800GTX in flops, the 7800GTX actually stomped xenos in overall performance..

Show me the same graph about performance/watt (total system) and it would tell a far different story.

 

[2is]

Yes it would, but I'm pretty sure this thread isn't talking about efficiency.

 

[exar333]

I am playing on a triple-screen PC setup with a keyboard and mouse. How exactly is a PS4 better?

 

[Cerb]

John Carmack.... he left us. HE LEFT US.

DOOM 3 BFG was supposed to have Oculus VR support upon shipping the dev kits... and he left us high and dry.

Where was he when we needed him the most?!

There is only one reasonable answer: Resting down in Cornwall*, writing up his memoirs, for the paperback edition of The Art of Computer Programming.

* Tex-as just doesn't work, and he lives in a one-syllable town.

 

[exar333]

Upscaled to 4k resolutions from 720p, lololololololololol. Yeaaaaaaah, really superior there, loloolololol.
[/B]

Interestingly enough, look at these performance numbers for Titan and 4K resolution. It is usually between 20-40fps, with a lot of dips. Imagine that with a GPU 3x LESS powerful (PS4) and realize 4K was never in the cards for the PS4, except for upscaling. It's already behind the times and it hasn't even launched yet.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-High-End-GPUs-Benchmarked-4K-Resolutions/How-Current-Cards-Stack

 

[Rakehellion]

Oh and uh, the PS4 is at least 3x less powerful than a titan, or 2x less powerful than a 680, and even less powerful than a 580.... (which is what I've argued from the very start of my ranting)

http://www.gamechup.com/nvidia-ps4s...-than-xbox-720s-gpu-but-3x-slower-than-titan/

and another article showing the PS4 getting whooped as far as "PC to console" tech goes...

http://www.4gamer.net/games/209/G020984/20130330001/

And straight from Nvidia at GDC 2013...

*Also note that while it appears the xbox 360 xenos gpu slightly outperformed the 7800GTX in flops, the 7800GTX actually stomped xenos in overall performance..

PS3 equal in power to the Xbox 360? I sense more than a little bias in that article. If you have a graph with numbers on it, it's probably a good idea to make the numbers accurate.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

You guys haven't heard of writing to metal? The efficiency is such that experiments are being conducted this moment at the top universities in the country to figure it out. Also talk of replacing supercomputers and such with racks of ps4's. A 200w power limit and being faster and more efficient than any other PC part currently available.

 

[exar333]

PS3 equal in power to the Xbox 360? I sense more than a little bias in that article. If you have a graph with numbers on it, it's probably a good idea to make the numbers accurate.

Keep in mind that point on the graph is between performance numbers of 100 and 1,000 the 'base of 1'. The PS3 may have been 10-30% faster (strictly for GPU) but the difference in spot on the graph would be VERY negligible.

 

[exar333]

You guys haven't heard of writing to metal? The efficiency is such that experiments are being conducted this moment at the top universities in the country to figure it out. Also talk of replacing supercomputers and such with racks of ps4's. A 200w power limit and being faster and more efficient than any other PC part currently available.

Did you take an article about the PS3 and replace it with 'PS4'?

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

You guys haven't heard of writing to metal? The efficiency is such that experiments are being conducted this moment at the top universities in the country to figure it out. Also talk of replacing supercomputers and such with racks of ps4's. A 200w power limit and being faster and more efficient than any other PC part currently available.

They say that with every Playstation release and it is a joke. I live beside the most powerful supercomputer in the world and I am sure they won't be replacing their thousands of interconnected Bulldozer CPUs and Tesla cards with a bunch of PS4s networked together.