How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[Rakehellion]

Supports 8k but no 400GB disc format for that content? Sounds legit

Blu-ray discs can have 10 or more layers.

 

[Rakehellion]

Also keep in mind, the Titan is out, the PS4 isn't.

In roughly two years the market has gone from the 1.5GB GTX 580 for $500 to the $170 2GB 650 Ti Boost...

By the time the PS4 comes out we'll be one year closer to the next jump, what makes people believe history won't repeat itself as it seems to do nearly every generation?

So what's fair? Comparing a $1000 gpu to an unreleased cheaper product, or fixing PC hardware that has been out for awhile to the criteria of fixed mainstream hardware that isn't even out? Seems whichever way you try to go there is a counter argument already waiting for you.

The PS4 will be out in 6 months, not two years. And a $170 GPU can't play games unless it's attached to a computer system.

 

[Rakehellion]

I hope you're joking They said the same thing about the Cell processor in the PS3. How many times will you allow yourself to be fooled by hype before you realize you're being fooled by hype?

The PS3s Cell performance at launch couldn't be beat. In fact, the US military created a supercomputer using clusters of them. With modern GPUs and compute shaders, it may be slightly different.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The PS4 will be out in 6 months, not two years. And a $170 GPU can't play games unless it's attached to a computer system.

28nm is a over a year old, but you missed the entire point anyways.

 

[Rakehellion]

Okay you got me with "facts". Please tell me in laymans terms how the "optimizations" on the ps4 will allow it to compete with a high end PC? Also exactly what in the ps4 hardware is eliminating "bottlenecks" that the computer supposedly has? And what exactly in the PC Is bottlenecking it from becoming the monster the ps4 is?

Aside from driver optimization issues, by far the biggest bottleneck in your computer is the pipe between the CPU and GPU. The PS4 eliminates this with a unified memory. The PS3 did something similar but instead of unifying the memory, it massively widened the bus.

 

[Rakehellion]

28nm is a over a year old, but you missed the entire point anyways.

Nanometers are irrelevant. Thats like saying a Bugatti Veyron is slower than a MoPed because it's heavier.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

wut

 

[Rakehellion]

Well we'd compare the $1500 PS4 to the $1500 PC but sadly it's a console and there is no other version but low/mid mainstream.

That's why you compare to a $400 PC because the vast majority of people don't have a $1500 PC nor will they ever.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The vast majority of PC users aren't on this forum, nor will they ever.

 

[Rakehellion]

The vast majority of PC users aren't on this forum, nor will they ever.

I don't think the majority of users on this forum have Titans either.

 

[Beavermatic]

I don't think the majority of users on this forum have Titans either.

I have (2) titans.... 'just sayin

 

[2is]

I'll have a second 680 shortly. Does that mean I have 1.25-1.5 titans?

 

[Beavermatic]

I had two 680's prior to my titans. I notice no framerate difference to the eye (although it is there).

Only reason I upgraded from (2) 680's to the two titans is to get that extra VRAM for my extremely ridiculous monitor resolution and to get insane amounts of AA at that resolution. Other than that, the 680's were fine even at that resolution on most games, except maybe like crysis 3 were it would occasionaly have vram stutter from hitting over 2GB's of VRAM. But the framerate itself was perfectly fine. (Remember, in SLI... you do not double your vram, you only get the effective vram of one card, the other cards vram is just mirrored data from the master card... a long time limitation of SLI architecture). I do believe that even the Dual-GPU cards suffer from the same VRAM limitations since they run in either SLI or crossfire mode depending on manufacturer... a 4GB 690 is only able to use 2GB's Ingame, since it works just like SLI, where each GPU on the board has 2GB's respectively.

Titan is somewhere between 50 to 65% faster than a single 680 (though in certain things it can be almost 75 to 80% faster), and about 10 to 20% slower than a dua lgpu card like the 690 and 7990.... however it does not suffer from the same power consumption/heat/driver/microstutter/gpu latency/framerate rollercoastering that the dual gpu cards have, as the titan is of course a single gpu. Goes to show just how powerful the card really is... that a singlegpu card itself is running more alike a dual gpu card. It's pretty bad when the ATI guys are having to compare their dual-gpu card to the single gpu titan for benchmark comparisons =D

 

[2is]

Yeah, i know about the vram mirroring. I'm just gaming on a 1200p monitor, my single 680 was fine really, i was just bored and wanted something new to play with. I also want some first hand experience with a dual GPU setup and got a decent deal on a used 680 from another forum so I pulled the trigger. I think the only game I havne't been able to max out was Metro 2033 with my single 680. I plan on buying Metro: Last Night at some point so it'll be interesting to see the difference.

 

[Sohaltang]

I don't think the majority of users on this forum have Titans either.

Nor will they game at anything higher than 1080P. Will even the above average PC gamer even notice a difference between a titan and a ps4? I doubt it. The rest of the world wont ever notice anything but epic gameplay on a large screen tv.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Nor will they game at anything higher than 1080P. Will even the above average PC gamer even notice a difference between a titan and a ps4? I doubt it. The rest of the world wont ever notice anything but epic gameplay on a large screen tv.

I highly doubt that...at least on current gen for the last 3 years, anything from a console on an HDTV looked like unplayable garbage. I tried BF3 and COD on the console and I could barely see the things I was supposed to shoot.

 

[Sohaltang]

I highly doubt that...at least on current gen for the last 3 years, anything from a console on an HDTV looked like unplayable garbage. I tried BF3 and COD on the console and I could barely see the things I was supposed to shoot.

7.4 million copies of console COD sales. This whole argument boils down to what is profitable. Yes, Ford or Chevy can both make a supercar for 2 million dollars, they dont bother. Yes it is a better faster car, totally freaking awesome. For 95% of us a 60K Shelby or 70K Vette will deliver most every thrill that you can obtain in normal circumstances. The car can be driven daily on pump fuel with normal maintenance. Yes the super car is better but how many will they sell? 100 tops? The other 95% of us will be thrilled to rock out in our crappy 500+ HP cars.

FWIW my PC cost well over 1500$ and you can see my benchmarks in several threads. Yes I also own 3 ps3s. I can see both sides unlike most here that do not even know the specs of a PS3.

 

[Jaydip]

no i included AA, I didn't include numbers for AA because its not as simple as raw throughput. AA helps make my point because it requires large amounts of bandwidth per pixel as well as increasing the workload for the ROPs.

Also why would next gen console Target 1080P, that's just a complete waste of bandwidth given your eye cant resolve down to that resolution at the distance you sit away from a TV ( assuming you don't have an 100 inch TV you sit a foot away from). Much better off with a lower resolution with higher IQ per pixel or higher frame rates then a higher resolution with lower IQ per pixel or lower frame rates.

So you get your butt kicked with facts and then you become a little sook, how childish.




I find article/hope piece like that BS, Nothing major is going to change in the silicon unless they delay the Xbox for 2-3 years. That would be Xbox 1 all over again. Upping clocks is a possibility but will also impact yields.

I am a bit confused here.PC always has the upper hand when it comes to image fidelity, there are tons of options for you to choose.So even at the same resolution games played on PC(unless a crappy port) will have better IQ.Also generally TV's are way larger compared to PC monitors thus having a lower PPI.From all the slides I have seen they are most probably targetting 1080P for sure.

 

[Lepton87]

Aside from driver optimization issues, by far the biggest bottleneck in your computer is the pipe between the CPU and GPU. The PS4 eliminates this with a unified memory. The PS3 did something similar but instead of unifying the memory, it massively widened the bus.

Doesn't seem like it.

Sure, there are some differences but PCI-E 3.0 8x or PCI-E 2.0 16x seems to saturate the card in games.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5458/the-radeon-hd-7970-reprise-pcie-bandwidth-overclocking-and-msaa

ps. Compute is a different story.

 

[Lepton87]

I had two 680's prior to my titans. I notice no framerate difference to the eye (although it is there).

Only reason I upgraded from (2) 680's to the two titans is to get that extra VRAM for my extremely ridiculous monitor resolution and to get insane amounts of AA at that resolution. Other than that, the 680's were fine even at that resolution on most games, except maybe like crysis 3 were it would occasionaly have vram stutter from hitting over 2GB's of VRAM. But the framerate itself was perfectly fine. (Remember, in SLI... you do not double your vram, you only get the effective vram of one card, the other cards vram is just mirrored data from the master card... a long time limitation of SLI architecture). I do believe that even the Dual-GPU cards suffer from the same VRAM limitations since they run in either SLI or crossfire mode depending on manufacturer... a 4GB 690 is only able to use 2GB's Ingame, since it works just like SLI, where each GPU on the board has 2GB's respectively.

Titan is somewhere between 50 to 65% faster than a single 680 (though in certain things it can be almost 75 to 80% faster), and about 10 to 20% slower than a dua lgpu card like the 690 and 7990.... however it does not suffer from the same power consumption/heat/driver/microstutter/gpu latency/framerate rollercoastering that the dual gpu cards have, as the titan is of course a single gpu. Goes to show just how powerful the card really is... that a singlegpu card itself is running more alike a dual gpu card. It's pretty bad when the ATI guys are having to compare their dual-gpu card to the single gpu titan for benchmark comparisons =D

Don't exaggerate, Titan is just 30% faster then 7970GHz and 7990 decidedly beats it in terms of raw fps.

 

[Pottuvoi]

Doesn't seem like it.

Biggest win comes from the developers ability to trust that there is no bottleneck between CPU & GPU.
If one can just write data from chips cache to another they can get some decent wins.

 

[NTMBK]

I have (2) titans.... 'just sayin

Pfft, feel the might of my HD7770!

...no, wait, hang on

 

[lagokc]

beat me to it

 

[Erenhardt]

Second, I can easily outpower the APU of the PS4 with my machine right now, by multiple times over and over, which is a oc'd intel i7 3930k, (2) GTX Titan's in SLI. Outside of the comparable "APU" components, there's also 32GB of extremely low latency DDR3, some pretty speedy Samsung solid state drives for OS's, raided 1TB harddrives for games and apps respectively, and dvd burner, bluray burner, mechanical razer keyboard, RAT mouse, 1000w gold rated psu, S-IPS HP ZR30w monitor at 2560x1600, and various other things.

I loled.
You have a nice machine there... worth about 5k$ or more? How do you feel about it? Are you proud? Do you feel you have THE POWER no one ever had? Do you feel like a king of the WORLD?!...
...If "yes", than I'm sorry for you. You just got yourself overpriced garbage. You need expensive hyperfast SSD just to startup this crap in resonable quick manner. Your $600 CPU has to be overclocked to have anything done, because most of the time it is generating '0's while waiting for other components. When it is finally working, it uses only 1 core. Your extremely low latency DDR3 compares to GDDR5 like DDR2 to DDR3. BTW. I recently upgraded my PC. I changed ram from DDR2 CL4 to DDR3 CL9 - so DOWNGRADE by your standards...
And you need 1000W PSU to keep this heater going... They should put environmental taxes on you.
And all this will now lose it glorious shine because of 500$ system with APU.
We are ready for the flood of your frustration and anger. Go ahead and post 10 replies flaming and cursing upcoming hardware.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I loled.
You have a nice machine there... worth about 5k$ or more? How do you feel about it? Are you proud? Do you feel you have THE POWER no one ever had? Do you feel like a king of the WORLD?!...
...If "yes", than I'm sorry for you. You just got yourself overpriced garbage. You need expensive hyperfast SSD just to startup this crap in resonable quick manner. Your $600 CPU has to be overclocked to have anything done, because most of the time it is generating '0's while waiting for other components. When it is finally working, it uses only 1 core. Your extremely low latency DDR3 compares to GDDR5 like DDR2 to DDR3. BTW. I recently upgraded my PC. I changed ram from DDR2 CL4 to DDR3 CL9 - so DOWNGRADE by your standards...
And you need 1000W PSU to keep this heater going... They should put environmental taxes on you.
And all this will now lose it glorious shine because of 500$ system with APU.
We are ready for the flood of your frustration and anger. Go ahead and post 10 replies flaming and cursing upcoming hardware.

I have much less in my PC. Maybe a grand at brand new cost. Except I've accumulated my machine over several years. My power supply came from a build from 4 years or more ago, case is easily 4 years old, bought my CPU used, GPU was $270 with 3 free games. I have no doubt it will smoke whatever AMD puts in the ps4. Because as has been proven there are no bottlenecks that the ps4 is eliminating. The pci e is not bottlenecking games. Especially those of us with modern PCs with a pcie 3 slot. As far as optimizations we shall see. Ps4 is going to have to bring more than the ps3 to the table far as an OS goes. So the writing to metal is a marketing term and nothing else in my mind. In fact I'd put my money on microsofts billion dollar team to make a more efficient OS than the ps4 team.