[GPU.RU]Playing the first half of 2013 against modern cards

[ruhtraeel]

I'd like to just say, for everyone using Steam hardware surveys as sources, keep in mind that not everyone uses Steam (I'd venture to guess that Steam doesn't have majority, especially in Asia), so don't purely use Steam hardware results as a fact in your arguments

 

[Jaydip]

I'd like to just say, for everyone using Steam hardware surveys as sources, keep in mind that not everyone uses Steam (I'd venture to guess that Steam doesn't have majority, especially in Asia)

If you are a recent gamer it is almost impossible to have never used steam.However I don't know how they create their sampling data.

 

[ruhtraeel]

If you are a recent gamer it is almost impossible to have never used steam.However I don't know how they create their sampling data.

I actually only started using Steam about a year or two ago, but I've been gaming for a long, long time. I also don't participate in hardware surveys (at least not that I know of), like many other people with older systems who don't keep up as much with the latest tech.

I would imagine that in places such as Korea, where SC:BW and MMORPG's run rampant, Steam usage would be much, much less.

I believe Steam popularity is mainly a North-American thing, like the Xbox (although I do know that China likes their CS:GO). I think a good example of the popularity outside of Steam would be Korea and League of Legends.


I would be interested to see the actual sales figures though, and see the differences between the hardware people use on Steam and the hardware of everyone else.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Seems to be popular around the world, at least it seems that way if you play Dota 2 especially in Russia 😉

 

[ruhtraeel]

Also, inb4 PC market slows to a crawl and everyone runs around with Tegras in their phones and tablets

 

[Piroko]

Just take their content server locations as a general idea of the distribution of steam users. Coverage does look spotty, especially in continental Asia.

 

[SirPauly]

I actually only started using Steam about a year or two ago, but I've been gaming for a long, long time. I also don't participate in hardware surveys (at least not that I know of), like many other people with older systems who don't keep up as much with the latest tech.

AT times, the IHV's create awareness for Steam:

Valve’s most recent Steam Hardware Survey shows that fully 87 percent of DirectX® 11 gamers are enjoying ATI Radeon or ATI Mobility Radeon™ hardware.

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/value-amd-team-up-2010sep15.aspx

 

[ruhtraeel]

Just take their content server locations as a general idea of the distribution of steam users. Coverage does look spotty, especially in continental Asia.

If I were to guess, I'd say because of the prevalence of consoles and phones/tablets there. Obviously, Apple (and subsequently iOS rather than Microsoft) is super popular in China. Every time I go there, everyone I see has an Apple tablet/phone and at least one Nintendo DS is visible within eyesight.

 

[3DVagabond]

according to those results.......
-the 680 is more popular than the 7870, 7770, gtx 650 and exactly on par with the popular 7850.
-the gtx 670 is more popular now than the 9800gt which has long held the top slots of the steam survey for so long

These kind of blow the theory that people dont buy high end video cards out of the water.

Or, they don't accurately reflect sales.

 

[tential]

Seems to be popular around the world, at least it seems that way if you play Dota 2 especially in Russia 😉

Was coming in to post this. Dota 2 is pretty large around the world. I'm sure quite a number of people have steam. Just because EVERYONE doesn't have it doesn't mean it's still not a large sample of people.

 

[Makaveli]

If the Radeon 9970 is around 780/Titan performance for $450-$550, I would be fine with that.

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here and say the Radeon 9970 with launch drivers will under perform the 780 by -10% and msrp will be $599.

Then in 6-12 months with better drives surpass the 780.

Will see a few good deals and bundles come xmas time but no real pricing pressure until Q1 2014 from something else... :whiste::whiste:

 

[Elfear]

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here and say the Radeon 9970 with launch drivers will under perform the 780 by -10% and msrp will be $599.

Then in 6-12 months with better drives surpass the 780.

Will see a few good deals and bundles come xmas time but no real pricing pressure until Q1 2014 from something else... :whiste::whiste:

So 5% faster than the 7970Ghz for $150 more? Not sure if serious...

 

[Piroko]

Was coming in to post this. Dota 2 is pretty large around the world. I'm sure quite a number of people have steam. Just because EVERYONE doesn't have it doesn't mean it's still not a large sample of people.

I disagree. In the U.S. and in Germany they have about one content server per 6 million residents, whereas everywhere else they often have one content server for more than 15 million residents (even Spain+Portugal are in that group) or worse. So in turn that would mean that the USA and Germany are probably massively overrepresented and countries like China, India, Brazil or even Russia have little to no influence in the Hardware Survey.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here and say the Radeon 9970 with launch drivers will under perform the 780 by -10% and msrp will be $599.

Then in 6-12 months with better drives surpass the 780.

Will see a few good deals and bundles come xmas time but no real pricing pressure until Q1 2014 from something else... :whiste::whiste:

GCN 2.0 will not be that much different than GCN 1.0. I do not foresee launch drivers having the performance issues that plagued the 7970.

I myself am still waiting to see if the rumored memory rewrite for AMD's drivers will unlock any more performance.

 

[RussianSensation]

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here and say the Radeon 9970 with launch drivers will under perform the 780 by -10% and msrp will be $599.

So hold on, ~15% faster than 1Ghz HD7970 for double the price and took 1.5 year to launch from the time HD7970GE dropped?

 

[SirPauly]

Not me. I'd rather buy a $550 mid-range card that pays for itself and makes $ many times over its price in the 1.5 years it took the $650 card to come out.

And there was this choice to consider after all -- different needs based on subjective tastes, tolerances, thresholds and wallet and why I allow the market to decide over-all, rightly or wrongly, even though it may differ from my vocal views! This view has been consistent for over a decade!

I'll use an example:

Back in 2000, 3dfx offered the Voodoo5 and their VSA-100 family and did bring to market a higher quality RGSSSAA -- Rotated Grid Spatial Super-sampled AA -- it greatly improved the experience and had wonderful quality while moving and very, very game compatible and didn't suffer from 16-bit FSAA banding.

I thought the world of tools that may enhance gaming, transform them; thought AA was the future with AA being potentially main-stream with a lot of future innovation and flexibility!

The product failed miserably and the market spoke loud-and-clear even though I didn't agree with it, hence the rightly or wrongly, aspect of my signature.

 

[cmdrdredd]

And there was this choice to consider after all -- different needs based on subjective tastes, tolerances, thresholds and wallet and why I allow the market to decide over-all, rightly or wrongly, even though it may differ from my vocal views! This view has been consistent for over a decade!

I'll use an example:

Back in 2000, 3dfx offered the Voodoo5 and their VSA-100 family and did bring to market a higher quality RGSSSAA -- Rotated Grid Spatial Super-sampled AA -- it greatly improved the experience and had wonderful quality while moving and very, very game compatible and didn't suffer from 16-bit FSAA banding.

I thought the world of tools that may enhance gaming, transform them; thought AA was the future with AA being potentially main-stream with a lot of future innovation and flexibility!

The product failed miserably and the market spoke loud-and-clear even though I didn't agree with it, hence the rightly or wrongly, aspect of my signature.

I bought one of those cards too even though it cost more than I needed to spend on quake 3. It can happen with any product really. As far as the 3dfx cards go they lacked certain features that the Geforce line from Nvidia had and ATI wasn't really a major player for PC gaming hardware at the time. That is how it goes. You buy when you think is a good product and hope for the best.

 

[Makaveli]

So 5% faster than the 7970Ghz for $150 more? Not sure if serious...

is a 780 only 15% faster than a 7970 Ghz I thought the gap was larger.

GCN 2.0 will not be that much different than GCN 1.0. I do not foresee launch drivers having the performance issues that plagued the 7970.

I myself am still waiting to see if the rumored memory rewrite for AMD's drivers will unlock any more performance.

you may be right about this

So hold on, ~15% faster than 1Ghz HD7970 for double the price and took 1.5 year to launch from the time HD7970GE dropped?

You have to remember rs not everyone is in the US. I've not seen a 7970Ghz under $400 in canada and $600 is not double the price.

Also folks I said I was taking a wild stab in the dark so calm down 😛

I was under the impression the 9970 is more of a refresh and not a new arch so i'm not expecting a 30%+ gain in performance from a 7970Ghz and of course I could be wrong.

 

[Elfear]

is a 780 only 15% faster than a 7970 Ghz I thought the gap was larger.

According to 3DCenter's July performance compilation (6-10 review sites combined), the 780 at 440% on the performance scale is ~13% faster than the 7970Ghz at 390%.

Also folks I said I was taking a wild stab in the dark so calm down 😛

No worries. Just wanted to clarify. 😀

I was under the impression the 9970 is more of a refresh and not a new arch so i'm not expecting a 30%+ gain in performance from a 7970Ghz and of course I could be wrong.

You're right that it won't be a new architecture but all the rumors point to it being a decent refresh (somewhere around 15-30% faster). Hopefully it ends up closer to the high end of that range and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[Makaveli]

According to 3DCenter's July performance compilation (6-10 review sites combined), the 780 at 440% on the performance scale is ~13% faster than the 7970Ghz at 390%.

No worries. Just wanted to clarify. 😀

You're right that it won't be a new architecture but all the rumors point to it being a decent refresh (somewhere around 15-30% faster). Hopefully it ends up closer to the high end of that range and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Wow 13% is not worth it at all so at $650 your paying for a 13-15% increase in performance from $350-$400.

Make sense why a 7950 overclocked is such a good deal right now.

 

[boxleitnerb]

You can overclock the 780 as well. People tend to forget that with Kepler there is no absolute operating point anymore, but there are multiple points depending on ambient conditions and settings and model (custom cooler).
The Palit SuperJetstream is 47% faster than the 7970 GHz in this test:
https://www.computerbase.de/artikel...it-geforce-gtx-780-super-jetstream-im-test/2/

You can subtract 10% because the selection of games is quite NV-biased, yet ~35% is nothing to be sneezed at. At the same time it's price/perf ratio is actually better than the regular 780 since it's 17% faster but only 3% more expensive currently in Germany (564 vs 547 Euros).

 

[RussianSensation]

The product failed miserably and the market spoke loud-and-clear even though I didn't agree with it, hence the rightly or wrongly, aspect of my signature.

I don't understand what the market has anything to do with my reply. Balla said a $550 mid-range 7970 was for suckers while 1.5 year later, a $650 GTX780 is more justifiable. If you did bitcoin mining, then the cost of $550 for 7970 on launch is irrelevant. If you didn't do bitcoin mining, the price/performance increase of 7970 OC vs. 580 OC is far better than price/performance increase of 780 OC vs. 7970 OC. Balla did not provide any justification for his opinion.

Once 780 came out, of course the launch price of 7970 at $550 now looks extremely overpriced in hindsight. That's not really rocket science. We should expect GPUs to get faster and/or cheaper over time. Since we don't know when exactly some 20nm $300-400 GPU will offer 780's level of performance, we can look at current standing of cards to evaluate their attractiveness. Right now a 1Ghz 7970 delivers 80% of the performance of 780 for less than half the price. You keep saying the market decides rightly or wrongly. Guess what, when 770 4GB versions go for $480, yes we can say with 100% confidence the card is overpriced even if NV is moving millions of these.

The Palit SuperJetstream is 47% faster than the 7970 GHz in this test:
https://www.computerbase.de/artikel...it-geforce-gtx-780-super-jetstream-im-test/2/

OK but now you are comparing a nearly maxed out 780 (there is almost no overclocking room left on that card) to a stock 7970 GE?

To substantially improve playability beyond 770/7970GE level, you need GTX780 SLI. 780 allows you to bump up 1-3 settings in games. Is that worth $300-350 extra over 7970 cards?

In TR, you get to use TressFX.

In Metro LL you can only go from Normal to Very High tessellation before 780/Titan run out of GPU power.

A "real" upgrade from 7970GE/770 needs to be 75-100% faster. This is why 9970 will likely be a waste stop-gap card too. 20nm is what we really want 😉

You have to remember rs not everyone is in the US. I've not seen a 7970Ghz under $400 in canada and $600 is not double the price.

Gigabyte HD7970 1000mhz with 4 free games is $379 CDN or $428 in Ontario after taxes. Gigabyte GTX770 4GB costs $490 before taxes or $554 CDN in Ontario. NV is charging nearly 30% more for a card that's less than 10% faster. Amusing.

The cheapest 780 I can find is $639 CDN or $722 in Ontario.

It's not double the price in Canada but if someone told you Card A costs $428 and Card B costs $722, you'd expect Card B to be faster by way more than just 25% out of the box, right?!

 

[boxleitnerb]

Less than half the price? Is hardware so expensive in the US and Canada? The 7970 GHz is 350 Euros over here, the 780 is about 550 as mentioned.

 

[RussianSensation]

Less than half the price? Is hardware so expensive in the US and Canada? The 7970 GHz is 350 Euros over here, the 780 is about 550 as mentioned.

550 euro is about $752 CDN / $731 USD. If we convert the currencies, hardware is cheaper in US/Canada. However, if someone makes $X USD/CDN and another person makes $X Euro, if your wages are paid in your country's currency, then the 780 is actually cheaper for you.

Here in Ontario, Canada, a 1Ghz 7970 by Gigabyte is $428 CDN while the cheapest 780 is PNY for $722 after taxes. In US the cheapest 780 I can find is $640-650 while 1Ghz 7970 can be found for $300, or less than half the price of a 780.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

40% faster than GHz at 1600p

46% faster than GHz at 1600p

36% faster than GHz at 1600p



The fact that RS is using reference 780 cards hotboxed or boost disabled is beyond pathetic. The fact that he's doing it after arguing with aftermarket 7970s for the last year just shows the bias in his thought process.

GTX 780 is in another bracket entirely, and with a bios mod and OC it creams 7970 OC, "Enthusiasts" know this.