Far Cry2 Cat 8.10 HotFix render errors

[YBS1]

Originally posted by: nRollo
Either way I don't see any reason for the tone of your response, this is the "video forum", noting problems with video drivers backed by evidence is "on topic" and should only be welcomed here.

It would be, and it may turn out that you are correct. I just wonder if you'd be so quick to champion the cause for all of us here on the forum if this were an nVidia issue? :roll: I think we already know the answer.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Jeez keys, you on your high horse again? I didn't attack nrollo, I didn't even mention his name. I only stated I liked the screenshots which he supposedly took with 8.10 better then the ones with 8.9 ... Now, where's your apology ?

I actually think 8.10 does render the rocks correctly, but lets them fade out, in the first screenshots, the ones nrollo removed, it looked better to me. In the second batch of screenshots it doesn't look as good because it doesn't make sense ...

I'm sorry Marc. You shouldn't have been on that list. I'll go get you out of there.

Done. I apologize.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: YBS1

Originally posted by: nRollo
Either way I don't see any reason for the tone of your response, this is the "video forum", noting problems with video drivers backed by evidence is "on topic" and should only be welcomed here.

It would be, and it may turn out that you are correct. I just wonder if you'd be so quick to champion the cause for all of us here on the forum if this were an nVidia issue? :roll: I think we already know the answer.

Lord knows there are plenty of others on this forum that will do that. Don't you agree?

For example, if you find something out about an Nvidia glitch or problem somewhere, I'm pretty sure we can count on you, and some others, to raise hell. That's how it goes.

Now, without any further ado, if you would care to keep on topic, lets wait while anyone else with a 48xx card is able/unable to reproduce these results. I don't have one, so I have to wait just like anyone else.

 

[MegaWorks]

nRollo PM your save game. I have the 4850 in crossfire and I would like to test it.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
nRollo PM your save game. I have the 4850 in crossfire and I would like to test it.

Done, I'd appreciate it if you could verify my findings for people. As noted in my email, I don't think this is the end of the world as AMD notes on their download site for the Hotfix it's not fully tested, I just want people to know Far Cry 2 benches with AMD cards aren't "apples to apples" with this Hotfix.



BFG I've added a GTX280FartCry image to my gallery, which illustrates the rocks are rendered with all modes other than Hotfix. It's pretty unlikely the Hotfix is the only correct way of rendering Far Cry2 when it comes with a disclaimer that it isn't tested.

I used 178.24 drivers off NVIDIA's public website for these tests, and Catalyst 8.9 and 8.10 drivers from the box /AMDs website.

 

[sourthings]

Try not to forget that this nrollo fellow is on record and proven as being a liar. This has been stated and confirmed by people responsible for the actual running of this site, not moderators.

Remember to take his posts from this perspective, he's a liar. In other words, don't even bother feeding him.

 

[MegaWorks]

Dx9 very high 1680x1050 4850 in CrossFire

Edit: I'm using the Far Cry 2 hotfix drivers

I guess I'm getting the same result as nRollo. I'm doing so more tests.

 

[nRollo]

Thanks MegaWorks!

I used DX10, but I guess it's the same.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: sourthings
Try not to forget that this nrollo fellow is on record and proven as being a liar. This has been stated and confirmed by people responsible for the actual running of this site, not moderators.

Remember to take his posts from this perspective, he's a liar. In other words, don't even bother feeding him.

Wow. 2 PR points for you.

Is nRollo posting something that you do not want to be publicly known? Just let us all know.

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Dx9 very high 1680x1050 4850 in CrossFire

Edit: I'm using the Far Cry 2 hotfix drivers

I guess I'm getting the same result as nRollo. I'm doing so more tests.

That's the same result as rollo's? The rocks in your screenshot don't look faded out or anything.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: vj8usa

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Dx9 very high 1680x1050 4850 in CrossFire

Edit: I'm using the Far Cry 2 hotfix drivers

I guess I'm getting the same result as nRollo. I'm doing so more tests.

That's the same result as rollo's? The rocks in your screenshot don't look faded out or anything.

I'm guessing his screenshot is with the executable renamed if he got the same results as me.

I just did a 60 second run of the jeep ride at the beginning and the the Hotfix was only a couple fps faster, so I'll look into that more, and maybe Mega and Apoppin could check with their CF . (as the Hotfix says it improves CF performance)

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: nRollo

I'm guessing his screenshot is with the executable renamed if he got the same results as me.

I just did a 60 second run of the jeep ride at the beginning and the the Hotfix was only a couple fps faster, so I'll look into that more, and maybe Mega and Apoppin could check with their CF . (as the Hotfix says it improves CF performance)

Ah, ok. Come to think of it, I vaguely remember noticing something weird when I parked a vehicle on a road, or maybe the edge of a road - it looked like the tires sort of went into the road, a lot like these rocks. I get the feeling everything has the same number of polys, but for some reason the level of the road texture is higher than it should be, or something.

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
@myocardia

The OP implies that ATi's hotfix degrades IQ to increase speed. I already posted a link that clearly shows there's no increase in peformance with a single 4870.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/..._im_Ueberblick/?page=2

The Radeon HD 4870 with both drivers achieved an identical result

That said did the OP do any benchmarks to compare speeds before and after?
Also the pictures that the OP used aren't even from the benchmark utilities.

There's no proof that ATi used this one example of a rendering problem to increase speed, which is why this thread should be closed.

Perhaps Apoppin/someone else can provide us with CF benches?

In any case, here's the hardware:
Oh ye of little faith

You made a claim and haven't fully backed it up yet. Now you want others to do your work.

Wow you had time to take screenshots of your card, but not benchmarks. Did nvidia give you this 4850 free so you could scout for ever little problem ATi has?

Do us a favor and next time nvidia has a driver bug, be sure to make a thread.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Dx9 very high 1680x1050 4850 in CrossFire

Edit: I'm using the Far Cry 2 hotfix drivers

I guess I'm getting the same result as nRollo. I'm doing so more tests.

Well i am finished with my benchmarking - 8 hours ago when i went to bed
- unfortunately i have issues with formatting on my site
[i am getting help, right now ]

- first of ALL, Rollo is correct; there are issues with the hotfix beta drivers
:Q

there ARE textures missing in the Hotfix compared to the *regular* Cat 8-10 drivers - all of my testing is at 19x12, with Ultra details in-game. 16xAF is applied in the CP.
- i have 15 images to compare side-by side - GTX280, 4870/1GB Cat 8-10 and 4870-1GB Hotfixed drivers - all with varying levels of filtering applied .. and the 280GTX' IQ is pretty damn comparable to the IQ of the regular Cat drivers; just the hotfix images are missing textures
[that is what i want you to see]

Secondly, the hotfix DOES run faster than the regular drivers
- again for each level of filtering, i have a chart to compare performance between GTX280 and 4870 on both sets of drivers

for my briefest of conclusions, i would not use hotfix beta drivers for my FC2 *unless* it was UNplayable
- and it is pretty damn unplayable on a single 4870/1GB - it hitches and lurches from frame to frame [especially] in the short Ranch demo - with BOTH the hotfix and Cat 8-10s
- yet the frame rates *should* be playable - remember i mentioned this in special circumstances before?


However, the X2 [and even X3] are much smoother with regular Cat 8-10 - even though all tested cards all have 1GB of VRAM - and so is 280GTX smooth right down to 4xMSAA

 

[vj8usa]

This is really weird - I went to look for the scene with the jeep that I mentioned earlier, and decided to toss a loose tire onto the road as well, to see what'd happen. It also fell "in" to the road, but only when looking at it at a certain angle. If I look up higher, more of the tire disappears. I put a few screens up here:

http://vj8usa.googlepages.com/farcry2

P.S. - the exact same thing happens to the jeep in the background and random debris on the side of the road, too. I'm guessing it'd happen with the rocks as well?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
@myocardia

The OP implies that ATi's hotfix degrades IQ to increase speed. I already posted a link that clearly shows there's no increase in peformance with a single 4870.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/..._im_Ueberblick/?page=2

The Radeon HD 4870 with both drivers achieved an identical result

That said did the OP do any benchmarks to compare speeds before and after?
Also the pictures that the OP used aren't even from the benchmark utilities.

There's no proof that ATi used this one example of a rendering problem to increase speed, which is why this thread should be closed.

Perhaps Apoppin/someone else can provide us with CF benches?

In any case, here's the hardware:
Oh ye of little faith

You made a claim and haven't fully backed it up yet. Now you want others to do your work.

Wow you had time to take screenshots of your card, but not benchmarks. Did nvidia give you this 4850 free so you could scout for ever little problem ATi has?

Do us a favor and next time nvidia has a driver bug, be sure to make a thread.

I've added a photo of my receipt to the gallery


If you notice a few posts up from yours, I did bench it and found it a few frames faster, but deemed that inconclusive. Apoppin has verified the corruption and that the game runs faster with the hotfix.

I spent $196 of my money and hours of my time to bring you this news, which should be of interest to everyone.

Instead of crucifying me and questioning my motives, why not step back for a moment and consider just how many other people on the forum are willing to do that, and how valid information should be welcomed on a forum like this.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Dx9 very high 1680x1050 4850 in CrossFire

Edit: I'm using the Far Cry 2 hotfix drivers

I guess I'm getting the same result as nRollo. I'm doing so more tests.

Well i am finished with my benchmarking - 8 hours ago when i went to bed
- unfortunately i have issues with formatting on my site
[i am getting help, right now ]

- first of ALL, Rollo is correct; there are issues with the hotfix beta drivers
:Q

there ARE textures missing in the Hotfix compared to the *regular* Cat 8-10 drivers - all of my testing is at 19x12, with Ultra details in-game. 16xAF is applied in the CP.
- i have 15 images to compare side-by side - GTX280, 4870/1GB Cat 8-10 and 4870-1GB Hotfixed drivers - all with varying levels of filtering applied .. and the 280GTX' IQ is pretty damn comparable to the IQ of the regular Cat drivers; just the hotfix images are missing textures
[that is what i want you to see]

Secondly, the hotfix DOES run faster than the regular drivers
- again for each level of filtering, i have a chart to compare performance between GTX280 and 4870 on both sets of drivers

for my briefest of conclusions, i would not use hotfix beta drivers for my FC2 *unless* it was UNplayable
- and it is pretty damn unplayable on a single 4870/1GB - it hitches and lurches from frame to frame [especially] in the short Ranch demo - with BOTH the hotfix and Cat 8-10s
- yet the frame rates *should* be playable - remember i mentioned this in special circumstances before?


However, the X2 [and even X3] are much smoother with regular Cat 8-10 - even though all tested cards all have 1GB of VRAM - and so is 280GTX smooth right down to 4xMSAA

Thanks Mark.

I noticed the lurching along as well, just didn't bring it up. I suppose I should have.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: vj8usa
This is really weird - I went to look for the scene with the jeep that I mentioned earlier, and decided to toss a loose tire onto the road as well, to see what'd happen. It also fell "in" to the road, but only when looking at it at a certain angle. If I look up higher, more of the tire disappears. I put a few screens up here:

http://vj8usa.googlepages.com/farcry2

P.S. - the exact same thing happens to the jeep in the background and random debris on the side of the road, too. I'm guessing it'd happen with the rocks as well?

Interesting!

They'll probably get this stuff fixed before it makes an actual driver release. I wonder why this wasn't taken care before the game launched, the devs will work with anyone who asks I imagine.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
@myocardia

The OP implies that ATi's hotfix degrades IQ to increase speed. I already posted a link that clearly shows there's no increase in peformance with a single 4870.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/..._im_Ueberblick/?page=2

The Radeon HD 4870 with both drivers achieved an identical result

That said did the OP do any benchmarks to compare speeds before and after?
Also the pictures that the OP used aren't even from the benchmark utilities.

There's no proof that ATi used this one example of a rendering problem to increase speed, which is why this thread should be closed.

Perhaps Apoppin/someone else can provide us with CF benches?

In any case, here's the hardware:
Oh ye of little faith

You made a claim and haven't fully backed it up yet. Now you want others to do your work.

Wow you had time to take screenshots of your card, but not benchmarks. Did nvidia give you this 4850 free so you could scout for ever little problem ATi has?

Do us a favor and next time nvidia has a driver bug, be sure to make a thread.

Well, I for one want others to "participate" in the work. Not do it for everyone else.
Participation. I know this isn't a new concept. Mega and Apoppin are "participating" to confirm/refute the findings.

EDIT: And so far, as of this post, it is confirmed. Lest other data is presented to refute.

 

[MarcVenice]

Something everyone has to keep in mind though, these are untested drivers by AMD, so you can't blast them for it ... AMD should be notified instead, and then we'll see what happens in the next official drivers ...

 

[BenSkywalker]

Something everyone has to keep in mind though, these are untested drivers by AMD, so you can't blast them for it ... AMD should be notified instead, and then we'll see what happens in the next official drivers ...

I'm assuming that post is in jest? This is a hotfix for one particular game. If it broke some other game, I could understand- but given that it was released particularly for one game if it doesn't work in that singular game then why shouldn't it be hammered? You don't ever release a hotfix that further breaks something. And if they didn't test their FarCry2 hotfix running FarCry2 then I would say ATi has some rather serious issues that go well beyone a rendering error

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Dx9 very high 1680x1050 4850 in CrossFire

Edit: I'm using the Far Cry 2 hotfix drivers

I guess I'm getting the same result as nRollo. I'm doing so more tests.

Well i am finished with my benchmarking - 8 hours ago when i went to bed
- unfortunately i have issues with formatting on my site
[i am getting help, right now ]

- first of ALL, Rollo is correct; there are issues with the hotfix beta drivers
:Q

there ARE textures missing in the Hotfix compared to the *regular* Cat 8-10 drivers - all of my testing is at 19x12, with Ultra details in-game. 16xAF is applied in the CP.
- i have 15 images to compare side-by side - GTX280, 4870/1GB Cat 8-10 and 4870-1GB Hotfixed drivers - all with varying levels of filtering applied .. and the 280GTX' IQ is pretty damn comparable to the IQ of the regular Cat drivers; just the hotfix images are missing textures
[that is what i want you to see]

Secondly, the hotfix DOES run faster than the regular drivers
- again for each level of filtering, i have a chart to compare performance between GTX280 and 4870 on both sets of drivers

for my briefest of conclusions, i would not use hotfix beta drivers for my FC2 *unless* it was UNplayable
- and it is pretty damn unplayable on a single 4870/1GB - it hitches and lurches from frame to frame [especially] in the short Ranch demo - with BOTH the hotfix and Cat 8-10s
- yet the frame rates *should* be playable - remember i mentioned this in special circumstances before?


However, the X2 [and even X3] are much smoother with regular Cat 8-10 - even though all tested cards all have 1GB of VRAM - and so is 280GTX smooth right down to 4xMSAA

Thanks Mark.

I noticed the lurching along as well, just didn't bring it up. I suppose I should have.

You're welcome. No, i DON'T think you should have mentioned it .. especially in front of an angry mob with burning tar, a rope and feathers
:Q



sorry

and i should have a link really soon .. i simplified my chart [which became impossible for some reason] and i finally got my images to play nice with each other, side-by side
- then every one will *see* for themselves .. GTX280, 4870 IQ and the messed up beta hotfix drivers

Yes, we should let AMD know about it
- it is pretty frickin' irresponsible to release a "fix" that is worse than the original issues
- you kinda wonder what kind of hurry they were in .. and the 4870/1GB runs like *crap* compared to a single 280GTX - with either set of drivers

 

[thilanliyan]

It sort of looks like the rocks are still there but are in shadow or something like that. I still think the 8.10 shot looks better than either the 8.9 or GTX shots. The "floating" rocks look crappy to me.

@nRollo
Have you found any other spots where the rendering is different?

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: thilan29
It sort of looks like the rocks are still there but are in shadow or something like that. I still think the 8.10 shot looks better than either the 8.9 or GTX shots. The "floating" rocks look crappy to me.

At first, I didn't think it looked all that bad, until I realized it does this with just about everything that's on the road. See my post earlier with the pictures of the tire - it definitely shouldn't be rendering like this.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: vj8usa

Originally posted by: thilan29
It sort of looks like the rocks are still there but are in shadow or something like that. I still think the 8.10 shot looks better than either the 8.9 or GTX shots. The "floating" rocks look crappy to me.

At first, I didn't think it looked all that bad, until I realized it does this with just about everything that's on the road. See my post earlier with the pictures of the tire - it definitely shouldn't be rendering like this.

Wait now I'm confused...isn't the 2nd shot in nRollo's album the 8.9 one? And the 1st is the 8.10 one?

So if yours is rendering like the last 2 shots and you're using 8.10... (Is that what it's doing?? Showing part of the rocks like in the last 2 shots?)

Exactly what part of the game is this in? I wanna see how it looks on my GT.