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Far Cry2 Cat 8.10 HotFix render errors

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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,179
1,040
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
maybe it is more artsy viewing textures through half-missing rocks
-but clearly more than 1/2 of the rocks are missing in the Hotfix drivers image

Are you even looking at the full-size images?; those are just thumbnails i put up - click on them and compare properly
[or get new glasses, grandpa]
I am looking at them in full screen. Sorry I meant hotfix drivers. I just don't like the look of the "correctly" rendered pics...they look weird with those floating rocks. The rocks that are actually ON the road should be mud covered and barely visible (in my view...but that's a whole other topic).

Also, it looks like in your testing you get a 1-2fps increase with AA in your 8.10 vs hotfix testing...hardly anything at all and quite low if there are actually missing textures all over the place. If this is the only place where there are missing textures then it's obviously a bug.

Lol, who you calling grandpa?? I'm not even 30 yet. :)
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: thilan29
Originally posted by: apoppin
maybe it is more artsy viewing textures through half-missing rocks
-but clearly more than 1/2 of the rocks are missing in the Hotfix drivers image

Are you even looking at the full-size images?; those are just thumbnails i put up - click on them and compare properly
[or get new glasses, grandpa]
I am looking at them in full screen. Sorry I meant hotfix drivers. I just don't like the look of the "correctly" rendered pics...they look weird with those floating rocks. The rocks that are actually ON the road should be mud covered and barely visible (in my view...but that's a whole other topic).

Also, it looks like in your testing you get a 1-2fps increase with AA in your 8.10 vs hotfix testing...hardly anything at all and quite low if there are actually missing textures all over the place. If this is the only place where there are missing textures then it's obviously a bug.

Lol, who you calling grandpa?? I'm not even 30 yet. :)
So 'Grandpa' got your attention ?
- sorry about that .. technically it would be an insult, i guess, as i was referring to your apparent lack of sight
---- "i" would be Grandpa
:Q

actually i did not say AMD did it "on purpose" .. i doubt that very much .. i just think it is a bit sloppy of them .. as these screen shots aren't the only example
- not to mention HD4870 still runs badly in DX10 [without a framerate cap, which is a pretty simple fix for most]

Do you really want me to reinstall those beta drivers and play with them?


i'm back to Driver Packaging Version 8.541-080923a-069995C-ATI, Catalyst® Version 08.10

--8.541.2-081009a-070517E-ATI, Catalyst® Version 08.10 is SO gone


 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
50
91
Originally posted by: YBS1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: YBS1
*Shrug* The 8.10s look better to me. It's a slightly different camera angle and a slightly different time of day though from the looks of the shadowing anyway.

Backfire from the nVidia Focus Group member.
Is there an ATI staffer here?
Hardly, the fact you asked this just shows you obviously missed the screen shots he originally posted and pulled. The funny thing is people seem to be more concerned with rendering errors in this thread than the fact that the hot fix drivers run like complete ass in DX10 mode no matter what the framerate.
Pulled? You mean improved his testing method, right? Concentrate on the final shots and also those who were able to recreate them, on this forum as well as others. You're clinging to the original photos as if they "mean" something.

And has anybody noticed? This is the second DX10.1 title that ATI has had rendering errors on. What's the deal? Unless I'm mistaken, FC2 is DX10.1? At least some of it's features?
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: YBS1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: YBS1
*Shrug* The 8.10s look better to me. It's a slightly different camera angle and a slightly different time of day though from the looks of the shadowing anyway.

Backfire from the nVidia Focus Group member.
Is there an ATI staffer here?
Hardly, the fact you asked this just shows you obviously missed the screen shots he originally posted and pulled. The funny thing is people seem to be more concerned with rendering errors in this thread than the fact that the hot fix drivers run like complete ass in DX10 mode no matter what the framerate.
Pulled? You mean improved his testing method, right? Concentrate on the final shots and also those who were able to recreate them, on this forum as well as others. You're clinging to the original photos as if they "mean" something.

And has anybody noticed? This is the second DX10.1 title that ATI has had rendering errors on. What's the deal? Unless I'm mistaken, FC2 is DX10.1? At least some of it's features?

Nvidia is telling the word that FarCry has a feature to read from a multisampled z-buffer, resulting in better anti-aliasing performance, and both ATI and NVIDIA support this feature. ATI supports it in DX10.1, and NVIDIA via a DX10 extension and the performance should be the same.


http://www.fudzilla.com/index....view&id=10110&Itemid=1

 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,784
737
126
Based on Apoppin's results I would tend to agree that the hot-fix is broken.
 

YBS1

Golden Member
May 14, 2000
1,917
88
91
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: YBS1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: YBS1
*Shrug* The 8.10s look better to me. It's a slightly different camera angle and a slightly different time of day though from the looks of the shadowing anyway.

Backfire from the nVidia Focus Group member.
Is there an ATI staffer here?
Hardly, the fact you asked this just shows you obviously missed the screen shots he originally posted and pulled. The funny thing is people seem to be more concerned with rendering errors in this thread than the fact that the hot fix drivers run like complete ass in DX10 mode no matter what the framerate.
Pulled? You mean improved his testing method, right? Concentrate on the final shots and also those who were able to recreate them, on this forum as well as others. You're clinging to the original photos as if they "mean" something.

And has anybody noticed? This is the second DX10.1 title that ATI has had rendering errors on. What's the deal? Unless I'm mistaken, FC2 is DX10.1? At least some of it's features?
No keys, I mean pulled. The screens he originally posted undeniably had the hot fix 8.10s looking better, that's why everyone jumped all over him. It backfired, he pulled the shots, and replaced them with ones he obviously should have used from the beginning. I'm not clinging to anything, it's an interim driver release that appears to be quick band-aid for those wishing to run crossfire, because it certainly is worthless for single card solutions as I stated earlier the DX10 mode is truly unplayable with these no matter how well it may benchmark. If these issues remain when the 8.11s are released then there may be reason to believe they are doing something shady.
 

AmberClad

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
4,915
0
0
Dayum...

Leave it to a bunch of enthusiasts to be fixating over a pile of rocks. I recall having texture glitches and black ground textures way back during Far Cry 1 with my GeForce 6800......I played the game through from start to finish twice before I ever bothered to Google to see if there was a patch.

I think I just admitted that I'm a gamer first, an enthusiast second :eek:. Do I lose my AT street cred now?

(No, I don't have FC2. Too busy playing Titan Quest/Immortal Throne atm.)
 

LordGestle

Senior member
Jan 2, 2001
764
0
0
I'm just shocked that a nvidia focus member, that gets products for free from the nvidia camp, went out and bought a HD4850;)! Guess that motto stands true in "you get what you pay for", right? I kid, I kid.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: YBS1
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: YBS1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: YBS1
*Shrug* The 8.10s look better to me. It's a slightly different camera angle and a slightly different time of day though from the looks of the shadowing anyway.

Backfire from the nVidia Focus Group member.
Is there an ATI staffer here?
Hardly, the fact you asked this just shows you obviously missed the screen shots he originally posted and pulled. The funny thing is people seem to be more concerned with rendering errors in this thread than the fact that the hot fix drivers run like complete ass in DX10 mode no matter what the framerate.
Pulled? You mean improved his testing method, right? Concentrate on the final shots and also those who were able to recreate them, on this forum as well as others. You're clinging to the original photos as if they "mean" something.

And has anybody noticed? This is the second DX10.1 title that ATI has had rendering errors on. What's the deal? Unless I'm mistaken, FC2 is DX10.1? At least some of it's features?
No keys, I mean pulled. The screens he originally posted undeniably had the hot fix 8.10s looking better, that's why everyone jumped all over him. It backfired, he pulled the shots, and replaced them with ones he obviously should have used from the beginning. I'm not clinging to anything, it's an interim driver release that appears to be quick band-aid for those wishing to run crossfire, because it certainly is worthless for single card solutions as I stated earlier the DX10 mode is truly unplayable with these no matter how well it may benchmark. If these issues remain when the 8.11s are released then there may be reason to believe they are doing something shady.
I pulled the original shots because although the rocks in the foreground did show the fading/transparency to some extent, people were correct in that the Hotfix shots were still better.

8.9s were pretty messed up, riding the jeep into the map I went through "Christmas zone" where everything was bright red and green. I didn't bring that up because the 8.9 drivers pre-dated the game.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
50
91
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Based on Apoppin's results I would tend to agree that the hot-fix is broken.
What about Rollo and MegaWorks? Maybe I ask too much.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: LordGestle
I'm just shocked that a nvidia focus member, that gets products for free from the nvidia camp, went out and bought a HD4850;)! Guess that motto stands true in "you get what you pay for", right? I kid, I kid.
I buy ATi cards every now and again, had a couple X1800s to look at AF for example.

 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Based on Apoppin's results I would tend to agree that the hot-fix is broken.
What about Rollo and MegaWorks? Maybe I ask too much.
Don't forget vj8usa- he posted screens of tires disappearing in the road.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
50
91
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Based on Apoppin's results I would tend to agree that the hot-fix is broken.
What about Rollo and MegaWorks? Maybe I ask too much.
Don't forget vj8usa- he posted screens of tires disappearing in the road.
Of course! My apologies vj8usa.
 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
5,664
0
0
Btw keys, apology accepted, no hard feelings :)

Now since the issue has been thoroughly proven to exist, all we can do is wait for a response from AMD ?
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
50
91
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Btw keys, apology accepted, no hard feelings :)

Now since the issue has been thoroughly proven to exist, all we can do is wait for a response from AMD ?
Thank you Marc. :D

Agreed. But I think AMD will say that the fix will come with 8.11's. Which is the hope anyway.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Btw keys, apology accepted, no hard feelings :)

Now since the issue has been thoroughly proven to exist, all we can do is wait for a response from AMD ?
Thank you Marc. :D

Agreed. But I think AMD will say that the fix will come with 8.11's. Which is the hope anyway.
Don't you think they should at least take them down?
- they don't appear to do anything useful - except increase frame rates a little

What do you think happened?

A friend and i are speculating that ATi could be aggressively optimizing the vertex
mesh, which would cause that sort of misplaced collision trouble and could also
cause texture distortions since the texture is being overlaid onto a
different mesh than what it as designed for.

Do you think perhaps ATi is using a low LOD mesh with high quality textures - thus a
speedup from less vertex processing - since we did get a frame rate increase?

 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
13
81
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Again I'll ask, where is this coming from? Have you been instructed by someone to post this?
What does that matter? If my decision to investigate this comes from curiosity, a tip from George W Bush, or the ghost of Winston Churchill is irrelevant. If you would like my save game to verify yourself, PM me your email and I'll send it to you like I did Apoppin.

It would appear that Nvidia is really trying to spread the word regarding this hot-fix driver. Unless by "Nvidia" Kyle actually meant Rollo.


Originally posted by: Kyle_Bennett at HardOCP
Originally posted by: wolf2009 at HardOCP
Just found this over at this site . They found that with 8.10 hotfix drivers, textures were missing in FC2 . Perfromance increased with this so called "FC 2 optimized driver", but the performance increase comes from missing textures .


pretty interesting stuff, i'll be waiting for 8.11 now .
We were fed this by NVIDIA last week. Bug on some rocks? Sure. Impact to gameplay? Nope. Impact to canned benchmarks? Who gives a flying fuck. If you are still betting on that shit you deserve what you get.

Here is what NVIDIA said:

SOME DISTURBING FINDINGS WITH CAT 8.1

Guys,

Don?t want to raise alarm, but Cat 8.10 seems to be doing odd things with FarCry 2.

I found certain rocks ?fade? with Cat 8.10. This does not occur with Cat 8.9. More disturbingly, it does not occur with Cat 8.10 with farcry2.exe renamed.

Here is the A-B comparison. You should be able to reproduce these results wherever there are small rocks in the scene. I can send a saved game if it helps.
My reply.....

Thanks for the insight. Took y?all a whole day to find only this?
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1359453


Rollo also created this thread titled Far Cry 2 Driver Optomizations for 4800s over at Rage3D on the same issue.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,179
1,040
126
It was a bit suspicious that nRollo decided to take his 4850 for a spin, install Farcry and try the 2 different driver sets and just happened to find those issues. I sincerely doubt he found it first (and if I'm wrong I apologize nRollo) and hope that he would be more transparent about where he gets his info from (this would lead to more credibility...we already know he has contacts at nVidia...no point in hiding his sources of information). It's an issue (for some) regardless of how it was found and needs to be fixed by ATI.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: thilan29
It was a bit suspicious that nRollo decided to take his 4850 for a spin, install Farcry and try the 2 different driver sets and just happened to find those issues. I sincerely doubt he found it first (and if I'm wrong I apologize nRollo) and hope that he would be more transparent about where he gets his info from (this would lead to more credibility...we already know he has contacts at nVidia...no point in hiding his sources of information). It's an issue (for some) regardless of how it was found and needs to be fixed by ATI.
I'm not "hiding" anything- NVIDIA told me of this, I knew posting they said it would be questioned.

It was more interesting to me than Kyle apprently, so I tested it and posted it. Same as I'd do if Intel told me AMD cpus left something out of video transcoding.

Seeing is believing, and I thought you guys would want the info verified, not just "NVIDIA says this is going on."

EDIT:
They didn't offer me any save games like they apparently did for Kyle. I just heard rocks, train tracks, and other things on the ground disappear into the ground, so I bought the card and the game and went looking for it.
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
13
81
Originally posted by: nRollo
I'm not "hiding" anything- NVIDIA told me of this, I knew posting they said it would be questioned.

It was more interesting to me than Kyle apprently, so I tested it and posted it. Same as I'd do if Intel told me AMD cpus left something out of video transcoding.

Seeing is believing, and I thought you guys would want the info verified, not just "NVIDIA says this is going on."
So why is Nvidia telling you about Hotfix issues in the first place? I thought the sole purpose of the NVIDIA Focus Group was simply to evaluate Nvidia hardware and facilitate the transfer of information between Nvidia and their end users, not to spread dirt about AMD and any issues they may be experiencing.
 

DerekWilson

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2003
2,921
4
0
Unlocked.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I'll put this out there -- Rollo, you should know that there will be more than usual backlash even if you post true issues with ATI hardware. It might not be the best idea for you to do that.

But for the rest of you guys, the facts are a lot more important than where they come from. Consider the source when it comes to the implications and meaning of the facts (as these are at least partly perception issues), but when you have evidence of something it doesn't do to attack the messenger.

Context is key. This is a beta hotfix that has not been fully QA'd. NVIDIA also had to release an updated driver for FarCry 2 that doesn't include all the features built into the driver. Both NVIDIA and AMD want us to use beta drives for Far Cry 2. Talking about this issue is useful, but remember that it is just an issue with a beta driver at this point.

keep the discussion on the topic of the driver and the image quality / performance issues and not on who posted the topic. even if it might have been a better idea for someone else to bring this one up.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
Good news

AMD has a new FC2 hotfix for tomorrow!!

issue solved


Originally posted by: Creig
Originally posted by: nRollo
I'm not "hiding" anything- NVIDIA told me of this, I knew posting they said it would be questioned.

It was more interesting to me than Kyle apprently, so I tested it and posted it. Same as I'd do if Intel told me AMD cpus left something out of video transcoding.

Seeing is believing, and I thought you guys would want the info verified, not just "NVIDIA says this is going on."
So why is Nvidia telling you about Hotfix issues in the first place? I thought the sole purpose of the NVIDIA Focus Group was simply to evaluate Nvidia hardware and facilitate the transfer of information between Nvidia and their end users, not to spread dirt about AMD and any issues they may be experiencing.
i dunno .. AMD does the same thing with their more hidden viral marketeers. Almost ALL of the tips - mostly to tech sites and their associates; even key forum members - that something was "wrong about Nvidia" came from High Road, AMD old viral marketer. Now that AMD has its viral program in-house, most of the new "dirt" on Nvidia comes from them .. they watch each other very closely to see if there are any slip ups in their serious game of one upping each other. Both of them do it to each other .. like you didn't know :p

i spread this info about the botched Hotfix drivers too; on my own site .. but it was not false information .. nor was it dirt
- should we sweep errors and flaws under the rug and put up with 2nd-rate drivers?

i know you would jump ALL OVER Nvidia if the situation were reversed and you would be crying "CHEATERS" ... one of the first to get out the mud and start tossing it in Santa Clara's direction because you appear to believe they are a basically flawed company.

i have primary loyalties. i did it as a *warning* to my fellow gamers and readers of my articles; i don't give a crap about AMD or Nvidia's "feelings"

And a little publicity like this might have lit a fire under AMD's ass to get it fixed - Pronto!
- like it should be a TOP priority that it is for a AAA title.
:D

i would do it to Nvidia or Intel .. it is good for them to be aware that we are also keeping tabs on what they do and will provide feedback to them - good or bad

heck i love both graphics companies; clearly FC2 is a twiimtbp game and AMD did not have a lot of time with it - but i will not make excuses for them as you will - i just wanted them to fix it and they did .. awesome response time !!
:heart:
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: myocardia
Originally posted by: apoppin
Good news

AMD has a new FC2 hotfix for tomorrow!!
How exactly do you know this?

issue solved
I think your method of drawing conclusions leaves alot to be desired.
Because it is my job to know these things; click on the top link in my sig :p
- you will have all the *proof* you need, plus some another image of the bugged drivers to look at

perhaps i took too many short cuts for you .. read the info .. if AMD says it is a BUG and they have a FIX for it .. then .. logically .. issue solved

NOW if there are NEW issues with the NEW hotfix, then it is ANOTHER issue
- this hotfix is getting pulled and replaced

i'd call that a solution

what do you call it?
:confused:
 

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