CNN is reporting that North Korea has tested a Nuke

[dennilfloss]

North Korea has never displayed any qualms in selling their weapon technology to whoever paid the asking price. If they weaponize and reduce the device, it will be only a matter of time before an example of it falls into rogue hands. while we may not need to invade, we are officially still at war with them and this is a gross infringement of the ceasefire. We should at least make sure any installation related to this development is reduced to rubble.

 

[judasmachine]

one quick look through this thread leads me to believe there won't be a shortage of volunteers in the army...........

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Tab
No, it's not bullshit and yes it does matter. Clinton at least had a dialogue with the North Korea and had a policy in place that worked for the United States, South Korea and more importantly North Korea. I could understand playing hardball with countries that aren't that nice. You do not play hardball with a country that may have nuclear weapons capable of hitting your own country.

I highly advise everyone to watch this documentary PBS Frontline "Kims Nuclear Gamble". Also, in Jimmy Carter's last book he talks a lot about North Korea and it's a very worth while read.

Right now, the Bush Administration's policy regarding North Korea is wreckless and isn't making anyone safer.

Clinton made a deal with North Korea that called for NK to stop its production of weapons grade nuke material. This was in 1994.
In October of 2002 we presented evidence that NK was breaking this agreement.
It was at that point that the agreement fell apart and since then nothing has really happened.
NK wants to talk to us and ONLY us and we want six party talks with them.

My question is why believe anything NK says since they have already broken past agreements?
Agreed Framework put in place by Clinton

If you this is the dialogue that Clinton had with Korea I would call it a failure. Do you have any other evidence that what Clinton did resulted in anything useful?

BTW: Nothing Bush had done to this point has been useful either. So as I stated way back at the start of this thread neither President did much of anything useful against NK, so let?s focus on the future.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
I just heard that's it's been confirmed by drudge on the radio. It's pretty easy to confirm these things seismically.

The reason why diplomacy hasn't worked and won't work on these nuclear issues is because these countries don't want money or food or trade. They want nuclear weapons. Dimplomacy is just a delaying tactic for North Korea and Iran.

it's too bad we invaded Iraq instead. now we have nothing left for either of those countries.

As I pointed out in another thread we have about 150,000 troops in Iraq. That leaves between 400,000 and 600,000 troops NOT in Iraq. In Japan and Korea alone there are around 100,000 troops and another 40,000 or so in Germany.

(troops=all military, not just ground fighters, since those figures are much harder to find)

BTW: we could 4-5 carrier groups and ALL of heavy bombers over NK in a matter of days and it would not hurt things in Iraq at all.

Let's talk about North Korea, and not complain about Iraq and such.

You're obviously ignorant on this issue. Soeak to a general who understands it and get back to us.
kthxby

 

[Passions]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99
Will be interesting to see what happens next couple of days.....

Japanese Valkyrie's are being scrambled, main battlegun is being energized, mecha's being loaded up. GOGOGO!!!

 

[Evadman]

So the hands on the doomsday clock move to what, 10 seconds to midnight?

 

[tommywishbone]

One more nuke in a world with 50,000 nukes. Wow. zzzzzzzzzz

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: railer
<shrug>

so what.

We've had nukes for 60 years.

I fail to see the significance. Ratchet up the sanctions. Get China and Russia on board.

If we're lucky, they'll use a nuke on SK, and then we can blast them into oblivion, and be justified in doing so. Odds of that happening are infintisimly small however.

Are you crazy?

We dont need a global confict to arise.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Who would the DPRK use a nuke on (or shoot at period)?

1) South Korea . . . only if attacked by the South or US forces based in the South.

2) Japan . . . old grudges die hard but again it would take some kind of military provocation.

3) China . . . uh, yeah . . . like never.

4) Russia . . . see #3.

5) USA . . . aside from Okinawa and US forces in the South . . . there's nothing the DPRK could hit.

It is pretty much a foregone conclusion that the opportunity to keep the DPRK OUT of the nuke club is long gone. If not during the Clinton years then certainly after 6 years of bellicosity from Bush Leaguers. From fake carrot (light water reactors that were never built) to fake stick and name calling (Axis of Evil), US foreign policy in much of East Asia really sux.

You won't hear many US pols say it . . . but the truth is that there's only ONE real powerbroker when it comes to the DPRK. And at this point, US intelligence probably has no idea just how far China will allow Lil' Kim to go before yanking on the chain.

 

[nageov3t]

so how long till NK starts selling nukes?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: loki8481
so how long till NK starts selling nukes?

Probably tomorrow morning on eBay accepting paypal

 

[EXman]

the apothy here is rampant. Many think Nukes are just deterrants and nobody be carzy to ever use one? Is that it?

Being the only nation to ever use one (which it saved countless lives) puts us at the top of the list for targets. Amongst other reasons.

 

[Termagant]

Just switched to Fox News and they were already spinning it into a Clinton bash. I'll paraphrase:

"Many on the left may say this is another case where Bush dropped the ball. But but but if you look back to Clinton he actually gave North Korea a nuclear reactor."

Never mind that the two reacters were never even built, and were to be light water reacters which are completely incapable of being used to build nuclear weapons in any way.

 

[Lemon law]

This changes nearly everything.

"Never leave live dragons out of your calculations."

Bilbo Baggins in the hobbit.

But in a world of 50,000 nukes---zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

No, try in a world of maybe 50,010 nukes--N. Korea has one less--proving the other nine work.

And in the land of Washington---where Shadows lie---GWB, Cheney, Rove, Rice , and Rumsfeld are awake---and gasp thinking---prey they get this one right---for a change.

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: EXman
the apothy here is rampant. Many think Nukes are just deterrants and nobody be carzy to ever use one? Is that it?

Being the only nation to ever use one (which it saved countless lives) puts us at the top of the list for targets. Amongst other reasons.

Japan is target #1. North Korea doesn't have a delivery system which can reach the US, let alone one which can carry a nuke currently. Russian officials said the device detonated today was 10ft long and 4 tons.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I've got lots of popcorn.

First, China loves this. They are using NK to weaken the US hold in Asia. Putin is also getting a kick out of this and couldn't have asked for more if he had paid for it. Japan SHOULD be peeing it's pants about now, and I suspect that nukes are in the works. I should not be surprised if Japan has had plans ready for rapid development and deployment. Perhaps a year or less. All they would need is the word "Go" from the higher ups. I should not be shocked if Japan acquired a nuke or two from friendly powers.

If Japan gets the chance, they and NK can play a nice game of MAD which should have the Japanese playing duck and cover. The US can effectively do nothing. We'll be thwarted in the UN, and as has been pointed out a military confrontation is exceedingly unlikely at least with conventional arms. Lobbing nukes towards NK is a bit problematic as China may not take kindly and respond as if attacked itself. I don't know what the real capabilities of Chinese missles are, but Im glad Im not on the left coast.

SK is going to sit this one out hoping no one notices them.

One really cannot blame Bush or Clinton. It could have been played differently perhaps, but it reads around here like the US is omnipotent and can do what when and whatever it likes without consequences. No. Iraq proves the point. A war can be waged, but the results not always pleasant. This is completely inevitable.

The best that could be hoped for is that the NK leadership suffers a fatal heart attack. Next best thing is try to identify any groups we can fund to assinate them. That isn't bloody likely either.

What the future holds is technology spreading, with more and more unstable countries acquiring nuclear weapons through their own programs or on a black market.

I expect that in the next 30 years a regional nuclear war will break out. If the superpowers become involved, then a global conflict. MY estimate is roughly a billion dead, perhaps more.

My popcorn is ready.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: EXman
the apothy here is rampant. Many think Nukes are just deterrants and nobody be carzy to ever use one? Is that it?

Being the only nation to ever use one (which it saved countless lives) puts us at the top of the list for targets. Amongst other reasons.

It's not apathy. It's reality.

It's not in Lil' Kim's interest to USE a nuke except as a means of deterring US aggression and otherwise blackmailing others . . . including the two countries that currently prop up the DPRK . . . China and South Korea. South Korea keeps the north fed, so I guess that means they get bombed first?:roll: China supplies much of the fuel oil, fertilizer, and some food as well, so I guess they get bombed next?

Now there's certainly a risk the DPRK may sell a nuke. Then again, that would be one of those pesky 'law enforcement' issues and we know law enforcement isn't important when it comes to protecting America.:roll:


Not to go too far afield but its total BS that using nukes saved countless lives. It's quite easy to count the lives it cost though.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: EXman
the apothy here is rampant. Many think Nukes are just deterrants and nobody be carzy to ever use one? Is that it?

Being the only nation to ever use one (which it saved countless lives) puts us at the top of the list for targets. Amongst other reasons.

It's not apathy. It's reality.

It's not in Lil' Kim's interest to USE a nuke except as a means of deterring US aggression and otherwise blackmailing others . . . including the two countries that currently prop up the DPRK . . . China and South Korea. South Korea keeps the north fed, so I guess that means they get bombed first?:roll: China supplies much of the fuel oil, fertilizer, and some food as well, so I guess they get bombed next?

Now there's certainly a risk the DPRK may sell a nuke. Then again, that would be one of those pesky 'law enforcement' issues and we know law enforcement isn't important when it comes to protecting America.:roll:


Not to go too far afield but its total BS that using nukes saved countless lives. It's quite easy to count the lives it cost though.

The moment China feels threatened in a real way is the last day of Crazy Kim's life. China would not hesitate to slag NK if it felt the need. Regardless, I do believe China is using NK as proxy with or without Kims approval. He's the perfect stooge.

 

[BrownTown]

people give China too much credit when it comes to manipulating global politics. IF you think they are happy that North Korea has nukes then very mistaken.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: EXman
the apothy here is rampant. Many think Nukes are just deterrants and nobody be carzy to ever use one? Is that it?

Being the only nation to ever use one (which it saved countless lives) puts us at the top of the list for targets. Amongst other reasons.

It's not apathy. It's reality.

It's not in Lil' Kim's interest to USE a nuke except as a means of deterring US aggression and otherwise blackmailing others . . . including the two countries that currently prop up the DPRK . . . China and South Korea. South Korea keeps the north fed, so I guess that means they get bombed first?:roll: China supplies much of the fuel oil, fertilizer, and some food as well, so I guess they get bombed next?

Now there's certainly a risk the DPRK may sell a nuke. Then again, that would be one of those pesky 'law enforcement' issues and we know law enforcement isn't important when it comes to protecting America.:roll:


Not to go too far afield but its total BS that using nukes saved countless lives. It's quite easy to count the lives it cost though.

The moment China feels threatened in a real way is the last day of Crazy Kim's life. China would not hesitate to slag NK if it felt the need. Regardless, I do believe China is using NK as proxy with or without Kims approval. He's the perfect stooge.

I agree 100% b/c that scenario makes the most sense.

Then again if you told me in 1999 that the next Republican President and Republican Congress would blow a hole in the budget, start a NEW entitlement program, and have 160k US troops scattered across the globe doing nationbuilding . . . I would have told you that those kinds of drugs are illegal and will kill neurons.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
people give China too much credit when it comes to manipulating global politics. IF you think they are happy that North Korea has nukes then very mistaken.

Maybe. But the DPRK would collapse within months without China's aid. The truth is that we probably have very little good information on the true extent of 'collaboration' between the DPRK and China on this issue.

Sure, China doesn't want the DPRK to have nukes. But I wouldn't be surprised if they toyed around with the appearance of nukes.

 

[EXman]

Well he clearly has a serious character flaw and human life is not in his best interest either. He's certifiable and his cult of personality might just will him into using the thing that will bring his downfall. I prefer to have clear heads in control of nuclear weapons not one delusional head with a bad haircut.

He is out of his league if he wants to bluff with the other world powers. If he realizes that he also might feel cornered and let loose a nuke that way as well.

lastly NK is a black hole of currency they sell anything for profit and then crap on there people. Due you want a NK nuke sold to a muslim extreamist group with an agenda that includes wiping Isreal off the map or blowing up congress?

 

[BrownTown]

I wonder how long till we get a yield number. I'm interested to see how efficient of a nuke they built and how much plutonium they used. Also interested in the ratio of PU-239 and PU-240 since this is reactor breed plutonium and too much PU-240 can cause weapons to fissile and have greatly reduced yields. Also, it might tell you if this is simply a proof of concept test, or if they actually have it weaponized.

 

[tommywishbone]

But in a world of 50,000 nukes---zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

"No, try in a world of maybe 50,010 nukes--N. Korea has one less--proving the other nine work"

Good point. I guess with my way of thinking, North Korea would now have -1 nukes in their arsennal.

 

[gorcorps]

I'm just hoping North Korea is like the EA of the world... sure they may come out with sh!t fast, but it never works well enough to be put to good use.