"Cleopatra should be played by a Black Woman"

[overst33r]

i was hoping this would become a black girl thread...

 

[Amused]

lol at the arguments. Remember the movie U-571? The studios cast Matthew McConaughey as an American sub captain who found the enigma machine in World War 2 when it was the British? Same thing here. The studio cast Angelina Jolie because she will bring in the $$$.

This is not a history channel documentary. This is a business venture.

Tell Essence Magazine. I don't give two shits who plays her. I'm just pointing out Essence's ignorance and afrocentric history revisionism.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

lol at the arguments. Remember the movie U-571? The studios cast Matthew McConaughey as an American sub captain who found the enigma machine in World War 2 when it was the British? Same thing here. The studio cast Angelina Jolie because she will bring in the $$$.

This is not a history channel documentary. This is a business venture.

At least the American's and British are by majority white and speak English.
But then there are levels of absurdity that tip a movie toward comedy like this thread.

Like Tom Cruise and Harrison Form in German roles.
Or John Wayne in a Chinese role.

 

[nCred]

Link

Unfortunately, Cleopatra, strapped by great debt incurred under the reign of her father, Ptolemy Auletes (Ptolemy the flute-player), thought it imprudent to mint gold coins, so only lesser metals were used to commemorate her reign. The imprint on gold would have survived the centuries better than baser metals. Only ten individual coins from the reign of Cleopatra have survived in very good, but not mint condition, according to Guy Weill Goudchaux, in his article "Was Cleopatra Beautiful?" in the British Museum's publication "Cleopatra of Egypt: From History to Myth." This is significant because coins have provided excellent records of the faces of many monarchs. In one set of coins Cleopatra and Mark Antony look very similar. In another set, she has "an enormous neck and the features of a bird of prey."

Link

So maybe Mark Antony loved Cleopatra for her mind. That is the conclusion being drawn by academics at Britain's University of Newcastle from a Roman denarius coin which depicts the celebrated queen of Egypt as a sharp-nosed, thin-lipped woman with a protruding chin.

Not exactly african looking.. Also, she looked like a man.

 

[Connoisseur]

LOL.

Studying race and ethnicity as a matter of anthropology is absolutely academic. It does not make you racist to want to study humans.

However, joining a KKK forum makes you racist.

Joining an Atheist forum makes you an Atheist.

Joining a Christian forum makes you religious.

Joining a Tech forum (like Anandtech) makes you a tech person.

What you choose to jump on, discuss and argue about tells you exactly all you need to know about your leanings and feelings.

I'm assuming you're not talking about me as this is probably one of the very few (if only) "race" threads i've gotten into. Regardless, I don't follow the key players here that much-or really at all- so I can't speak to any past arguments. I'm talking about this thread in particular which (to me), does not show any sign of racial bigotry. It's a couple of people rather heatedly discussing the potential race of a historic character. Racism not found.

Now some people have made a great point about this movie not being a History Channel documentary. They have an extremely valid point. Movies producers tend to be ethno-centric when selecting the actors as they want someone whom the audience can relate to the most. There are MANY MANY examples of such characters in movies over the decades.

 

[meltdown75]

i thought the HBO series Rome did her well........ of course, i know nothing of her historically. but that chick was cute, and she seemed to be a good Cleopatra to me. *shrug*

 

[Kirby]

i still say they should make her Japanese. a hot one with nice knockers...

i'm nkgreen and i support this message.

 

[dennilfloss]

After reading all the posts and pondering the historical and pictorial evidence, conjecture and speculation, Ockham's Razor suggests that there is little wrong with casting Angelina Jolie in the role of Cleopatra. She's already played Alexander's mother anyway and did a good job of it.

 

[classy]

She comes from an inbreeding Greek family with a dash of Semetic. She was clearly NOT black in appearence.

Jolie, while white and Native American, looks olive skinned and exotic. She also has a crazy seductress type personality. A rather perfect fit. The appearance would be rather like a lighter skinned Persian/Iranian is today.

So yes, it's ignorant afrocentric race baiting.

You are such a pos. No one knows what she looked like, so how the hell do you know? She wasn't white and she wasn't black either. She was something mixed, clearly with some ethnic features. Those are facts, not opinion. With those facts, the guy from essence is no more racist than you suggesting Jolie, who I like by the way, is the perfect fit. But hey I know talking to you about anything black or minority is useless. Amused you are a moron, but even you can't deny the fact she was not white. So the guy from essence suggest a black woman, which she was not. But you say a white woman, Jolie is the perfect fit, but she was not white either. You say its afrocentric race baiting, but what is the title for your race baiting? Because she wasn't black, but she wasn't white either.

 

[moshquerade]

You are such a pos. No one knows what she looked like, so how the hell do you know? She wasn't white and she wasn't black either. She was something mixed, clearly with some ethnic features. Those are facts, not opinion. With those facts, the guy from essence is no more racist than you suggesting Jolie, who I like by the way, is the perfect fit. But hey I know talking to you about anything black or minority is useless. Amused you are a moron, but even you can't deny the fact she was not white. So the guy from essence suggest a black woman, which she was not. But you say a white woman, Jolie is the perfect fit, but she was not white either. You say its afrocentric race baiting, but what is the title for your race baiting? Because she wasn't black, but she wasn't white either.

Calling Amused a piece of shit is really taking it too far.

All I read in your post is blah-blah-blah. You haven't added a damn thing to this thread.

 

[MJinZ]

Calling Amused a piece of shit is really taking it too far.

All I read in your post is blah-blah-blah. You haven't added a damn thing to this thread.

He's jus staying classy.

You know what I don't get... why all the Black people hatin on the white people but still loving on the White Jesus (who was actually an Arab)?

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

nobody wants to watch a movie about cleopatra

 

[moshquerade]

He's jus staying classy.

You know what I don't get... why all the Black people hatin on the white people but still loving on the White Jesus (who was actually an Arab)?

He could be purple for all I care. I just prefer him to be like Buddy Jesus.

 

[PingSpike]

What? I thought TehMac made it clear she was half greek?

LOL...I'm going to have to assume that was just a limitation of the material being worked on and that Cleopatra was not, in fact, a goblin.

 

[MJinZ]

What? I thought TehMac made it clear she was half greek?

LOL...I'm going to have to assume that was just a limitation of the material being worked on and that Cleopatra was not, in fact, a goblin.

Ouch.

 

[Linflas]

I don't see how that's ignorant.

If you are even slightly black, then you are black. And that's by the Whitey definition.

Considering that everyone agrees that Cleopatra is clearly not white, it makes more sense to cast her with someone who is not white ... yes?

Perhaps Essence was being over the top insisting on a black actress, but the other ones seemed to just want someone a little less pasty white.

No that is the definition of a small group of antebellum southern plantation owners who wanted to write the laws in such a way as to ensure that none of their spawn that resulted from their dalliances out in "the quarters" could claim an inheritance.

 

[classy]

I decided to post the essence commentary as well, so everyone can read the person's argument

Commentary: Another White Actress to Play Cleopatra?
Monday, June 14, 2010 | 3:00 PM
by Shirea L. Carroll

Read more: http://www.essence.com/entertainmen...musicfestivallogo-aolbv?cnn=yes#ixzz0rViqeVU8

Just when we thought there weren't enough leading roles for Black women in Hollywood, they create one and give it to a White woman.

Film producer Scott Rudin has purchased the film rights to upcoming biography 'Queen of the Nile, Cleopatra: A Life,' and has confirmed that the movie "is being developed for and with [Angelina] Jolie." Jolie, a Hollywood A-lister, will do her best in bringing the story of the famed Egyptian queen to life, and it appears no one doubts she can do it... including Pulitzer prize-winning author Stacy Schiff, who penned the biography, "Cleopatra: A Life," a book that won't be on shelves until the fall.

Schiff already heavily endorses Jolie, stating, "I think she'd be perfect for it and I can see a possible Oscar in her future. Physically, she's got the perfect look."

Gasp, the nerve! "She's got the perfect look?" Honestly, I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a Black woman. I mean, isn't it enough that 47 years ago, dame Elizabeth Taylor was cast to portray Cleopatra in one of the most expensive films ever made? That Elizabeth Taylor was actually the third White woman to be tapped for the Cleopatra role -- following Vivien Leigh and Claudette Colbert -- just makes this all the more comical.

Were Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry and Thandie Newton unavailable for auditions that day? Why does Hollywood think it's even slightly plausible to cast White women in roles that would be more sensible to cast a Black actress for? Especially when that role is an African queen.

It happened just two years ago, in 2007's thriller "Stuck," directed by Stuart Gordon, based on the true story of a Chante Mallard. The story tells a tale of a woman who hits a homeless man with her car and results with him trapped in her car's windshield. Instead of getting the man help, Mallard (played by actress Mena Suvari) opts to let him die slowly in her garage.

The interesting thing is Mallard is a Black woman, and Suvari, who was cast to play the role, is -- surprise, surprise -- a White woman. Adding insult to injury, instead of just casting a Black woman to play the role, the film gave Suvari a more "ethnic look" for the role, by adding stereotypical cornrows to her hair. Hollywood, are you serious?

Now, Jolie is set to play Cleopatra, who isn't as technically perfect as some would claim if you study the Queen of the Nile's distinguished history. First and foremost, the role should be given to a younger actress -- think Jurnee Smollett -- considering Cleopatra began her reign as Queen of Egypt at the tender age of 18 and ended her own life at the age of 39.

Secondly, while historically there is no concrete confirmation that Cleopatra was of a darker complexion, there is more evidence than not that she was Black, and not entirely of Macedonian Greek ancestry, as Shakespeare, leagues of painters and now Hollywood would have us believe. And, ultimately, while Cleopatra's heritage remains under speculation, it remains that she was in fact an African queen. Jolie -- not so perfect.

I want to make some comments. One the writer isn't coming off as some stark raving racist. She gives Jolie her props, calling her an A-Lister. But then the writer touches on something that is true. When they cast Jolie, they will through makeup try to add some kind of ethnic features to her. That I don't think that is up for dispute. The writer then makes reference to the movie Stuck, which I never saw, where the race of the true chracter was not played by an actress of the same race. Thats a problem.

I know in the thread about the Green Lantern, I would have been pissed if they made him a black dude as rumored. But they fixed it, . The writer makes an argument just like myself and others have made that cleopatra's true racial makeup and look are up for debate, but its a fact she was not a white woman from Britain. That is a legitimate argument. And the writer's pick to play cleo, I can't say is a bad one at all.....

 

[classy]

Calling Amused a piece of shit is really taking it too far.

All I read in your post is blah-blah-blah. You haven't added a damn thing to this thread.

Maybe thats because you can't read. Just get it over and say I support Amused and stop whining.

 

[polarmystery]

I decided to post the essence commentary as well, so everyone can read the person's argument




I want to make some comments. One the writer isn't coming off as some stark raving racist. She gives Jolie her props, calling her an A-Lister. But then the writer touches on something that is true. When they cast Jolie, they will through makeup try to add some kind of ethnic features to her. That I don't think that is up for dispute. The writer then makes reference to the movie Stuck, which I never saw, where the race of the true chracter was not played by an actress of the same race. Thats a problem.

I know in the thread about the Green Lantern, I would have been pissed if they made him a black dude as rumored. But they fixed it, . The writer makes an argument just like myself and others have made that cleopatra's true racial makeup and look are up for debate, but its a fact she was not a white woman from Britain. That is a legitimate argument. And the writer's pick to play cleo, I can't say is a bad one at all.....

No curves

 

[WelshBloke]

Wow you guys are obsessed about race.

Its hollywood, who gives a shit.

 

[Zebo]

Were Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry and Thandie Newton unavailable for auditions that day? Why does Hollywood think it's even slightly plausible to cast White women in roles that would be more sensible to cast a Black actress for? Especially when that role is an African queen.

Has this author ever been to Africa? There is more black people in France than North Africa. And back then there was even less blacks. The Arab slave trade brought in some 20-30 million black African slaves from sub Saharan Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

I don't care who plays her but assuming all people in Africa are black is idiotic.

 

[moshquerade]

Maybe thats because you can't read. Just get it over and say I support Amused and stop whining.

I read just fine.

I read that this is yet another post of yours that adds nothing to this thread.

As far as noting Elizabeth Taylor as the lead in the 1963 Cleopatra movie, people were more concerned about the affair she and Richard Burton were having than the color of her skin.

 

[Amused]

You are such a pos. No one knows what she looked like, so how the hell do you know? She wasn't white and she wasn't black either. She was something mixed, clearly with some ethnic features. Those are facts, not opinion. With those facts, the guy from essence is no more racist than you suggesting Jolie, who I like by the way, is the perfect fit. But hey I know talking to you about anything black or minority is useless. Amused you are a moron, but even you can't deny the fact she was not white. So the guy from essence suggest a black woman, which she was not. But you say a white woman, Jolie is the perfect fit, but she was not white either. You say its afrocentric race baiting, but what is the title for your race baiting? Because she wasn't black, but she wasn't white either.

Writing an opinion piece objecting to a white/native American woman (ethinic looking, not lilly white) playing Cleopatra rather than a black woman IS race baiting, Classy. I have no objection to ANYONE of ANY race playing her and am pointing out that the VAST majority of the evidence points to her being of mainly GREEK blood with a dash of Semitic.

It is YOU who is acting like a piece of shit here, Classy. You're defending an opinion piece that plays the race card and displays a clear ignorance of history. The author CLEARLY assumes Cleopatra was BLACK, Classy. AND then goes on a tyrade about how insulting it is to cast a light skinned person as Cleopatra. YOU even posted the article. I shall now post a snip of that article:

Schiff already heavily endorses Jolie, stating, "I think she'd be perfect for it and I can see a possible Oscar in her future. Physically, she's got the perfect look."

Gasp, the nerve! "She's got the perfect look?" Honestly, I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a Black woman. I mean, isn't it enough that 47 years ago, dame Elizabeth Taylor was cast to portray Cleopatra in one of the most expensive films ever made? That Elizabeth Taylor was actually the third White woman to be tapped for the Cleopatra role -- following Vivien Leigh and Claudette Colbert -- just makes this all the more comical.

Were Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry and Thandie Newton unavailable for auditions that day? Why does Hollywood think it's even slightly plausible to cast White women in roles that would be more sensible to cast a Black actress for? Especially when that role is an African queen.

Again, SHE is the one who:

1. Has a CLEAR ignorance of the historical fact that Cleopatra was GREEK AND SEMITIC and that Ancient Egyptians were NOT BLACK.

2. Is ranting about race.

Not me, Classy. Her. And you, apparently.

And again, just so it can sink into that rock you call a brain:

Left to right
Libyan, Nubian, Asiatic, Egyptian.

NOT BLACK, Classy, no matter HOW much you, and the ignorant race baiting bitch from Essence wish them to be.

 

[skace]

I'm pretty sure Hollywood has the ability to make her as Egyptian looking as they expect her to look (and no more than that). Given that, the only thing that should matter is getting the best actor who can ACT the part believably and make the movie enjoyable to watch. In case you missed it... the key here is acting.

 

[meltdown75]

has no one else seen Rome

good fucking God is this forum ever a pile of fail today