19 Year Old Girl Shot Looking for Help

[Zargon]

Are people really that stupid they don't know putting your finger on the trigger could cause an accident? I'm not a gun owner and I can figure that out.

Also if its your contention even trained professionals can have an accidental discharge, should not average citizens undergo training and pass a test before being isssued a license? Shouldn't the training be renewed say every 5 years?

you really think people arent that stupid?

beyond that, CCW generally requires training and a test to be passed, I wish proper weapons handling was one of them, but constitutional rights and all. we dont train people to use their 1A properly(which is obvious, all over this board )

If only newer cars were equipped with some kind of light emitting device on the front so you could see what was in front of you

how do you know one of them wasnt broken? or properly aimed, even then..how dark was it? no moon? headlights aim most of the light ON THE ROAD in front of the vehicle when aimed properly.

its detroit, so I am guessing there arent alot of street/yard lights to help out

again with the 'lack of imagination' just so you can try and have a point and pretend like its the only viable option

Well I guess if you are driving fast enough and don't make any attempt to brake. Remember streets that have parked cars typically have lower speed limits.

go drive into a parked car at 30 and let us know how it goes, and how you feel after

I had a collison at 60 once, it was not fun, and the airbag was one of hell of a suprise better than the steering wheel of course

 

[LTC8K6]

Post 34 has a link claiming 4 blocks distance.

Nothing from an official source.

4 blocks + 2 hours = ?

 

[Zargon]

Dude it's not about constitutional rights, it's not about weapons, it's about raw trust, politeness and kindness and communication.

raw trust is only going to get you screwed dude
[/quote]

If you think that greeting someone knocking on your door with a gun is correct you have some serious issues.
This is your american gun culture, other countries have guns, they have violence and burglaries, but such a retarded beliefs are nowhere else, only in america.

A very very very common tactic in home burglary/home invasions is to send one person to the door to knock. if no one answer you break in

if they do....its not uncommon to get assaulted by a group and they come through the front door.

some jackasses were doing that a few miles from me last year and locked some lady in a closet and she stuck in there for like a day(elderly)

the mailman noticed the door slightly ajar and opened it after the lady didnt answer


I dont answer my door with a gun pointed at anyone(atleast not yet)

but if some random ass person is banging on my door at 3am you better beleive I am going to bring one of my guns with and have it concealed when I answer. knowing that random shit like described happens, and already owning some firearms, it seems ignorant to not take the precaution since its there

I am not saying I think the homeowner was in the right, I'm saying it was possible, and throwing out multiple ways it also could have been an accident too

it salso possible the homeowner is POS and killed the girl because she knocked on his door at 3 am


watching the news video of that protest makes me sick though

'we dont care about facts, we dont care what she was doing, arrest that person'

thats the wrong attitude. thats not necessarily justice either.

it could be, but it might not be.


Im actually impressed that the cops are trying to just arrest to appease the crowd and the da is like 'um evidence would help thanks'

 

[dank69]

Nothing from an official source.

4 blocks + 2 hours = ?

I dunno, but I'm curious because your post said the cop said she left the car and then 2 hours passed. If we are certain that she left the car and then two hours passed instead of 2 hours passing from the time of the collision and who knows when she left the car, then my first thought would be that maybe she passed out somewhere for awhile. My absolute last thought would be that she decided it was the perfect opportunity to go commit some crime.

 

[Zargon]

I dunno, but I'm curious because your post said the cop said she left the car and then 2 hours passed. If we are certain that she left the car and then two hours passed instead of 2 hours passing from the time of the collision and who knows when she left the car, then my first thought would be that maybe she passed out somewhere for awhile. My absolute last thought would be that she decided it was the perfect opportunity to go commit some crime.

all we know is time of shooting(330am) and time of collision(130am)

agree with bolded but knows

traumatic head injury? who knows

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I would like to know where the house is location to the accident site, based on google maps there are approximately 40 houses in the area (Outer Drive) shown in post 34.

 

[trenchfoot]

I have security cams installed as an integral part of my home security system monitoring my property. Would be nice if we all had them just as we have lights installed outside our front/back doors. If the homeowner had security cams installed they may have been able to save the victim's life since you don't have to open your front door to see who's there and to find out what they want.

 

[Darwin333]

Obviously it's whichever means he doesn't get arrested.

I totally didn't mean to accidentally shoot the person that I totally feared was breaking into my house officer. So I'm good right?

It sucks that so many people think break in if someone knocks on their door at night.

I think what he was trying to imply was that he had the shotgun aimed at her because he thought she might be breaking into the house and then it "accidentally" discharged.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I was asking specifically about how believable it was that his discharged the shotgun towards her head by accident without the shotgun already being raised. To me, that shows intent.

At this point any comments about that would be just speculation. AFAIK, we don't even what type/kind of shotgun it was.

------------------------------

Not only is there a severe lack of information, what little we do have seems very questionable too.

If her cellphone was dead, how do her parents know what she was doing? She sure as heck didn't tell them after being shot in the face.

If her cellphone was dead who called in the accident? Supposedly she hit a parked car, which would imply that no one was in it.

Not much of this is making sense right now.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

If he's telling the truth he should be convicted of manslaughter or something. These guns don't fire without a finger on the trigger, so at the absolute least he was absolutely pointlessly pointing a shotgun in somebody's face. If you're really that scared of a break in you sit behind your door and call the police.

If she was indeed shot in the back of the head, it's murder. You can't even do that with a true legitimate case of burglary.

This. The first rule of gun safety is that you do not point the gun at that you do not wish to shoot, period. If you have your gun pointed at someone and it goes off, you have shot that person, period. Minimum manslaughter unless there is some legitimate reason you should be pointing the gun at them, and their mere presence on your property does not qualify.

At this point if my car breaks down and my phone is dead I'm not knocking on anybody's door, and I'm glow-in-the-dark white. I can walk better than I can dodge bullets.

 

[Absolution75]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even the castle doctrine wouldn't protect him... unless he can prove that she threatened him in any way.


Sounds to me like negligent discharge + manslaughter.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even the castle doctrine wouldn't protect him... unless he can prove that she threatened him in any way.


Sounds to me like negligent discharge + manslaughter.

Actually the prosecution would have to prove the home owner couldn't have reasonable fear in the situation. Having someone knocking on your door possibly turnng the door knob at 3:30 in the morning could cause a home owner to fear that the person at the door was attempting to break in.

 

[Darwin333]

Actually the prosecution would have to prove the home owner couldn't have reasonable fear in the situation. Having someone knocking on your door possibly turnng the door knob at 3:30 in the morning could cause a home owner to fear that the person at the door was attempting to break in.

I highly doubt that a jury would buy that the above = a reasonable fear for your life. If the jury does not believe that you had a reasonable fear for your life then some crime has been committed.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I highly doubt that a jury would buy that the above = a reasonable fear for your life. If the jury does not believe that you had a reasonable fear for your life then some crime has been committed.

If the prosecution doesn't feel they can meet the burden of proof they will not charge the home owner and that may be why no charges have been filed at this point.

 

[classy]

Well so far I don't see anything presented that the home owner attempted to identify the person outside. Also I don't see anything that explains why he thought she was breaking in. The thing that doesn't fit here is this. I have had people come to my house late at night knocking. I assume most people like myself would yell out who is it before even approaching to open the door. As for the two hours, I think that is irrelevant. For all we know she could have called someone and when they didn't show up, cell phone is dead now, so she attempts to find a house where she can use the phone. Since she was shot in the face, he had the gun already in a shooting position and it would appear he didn't attempt to communicate with the person outside.

 

[classy]

And to add, even if he heard someone knocking unusually hard or maybe try to turn the doorknob, I can't possibly believe that would warrant fear of life and shooting through the door.

 

[Wordplay]

And to add, even if he heard someone knocking unusually hard or maybe try to turn the doorknob, I can't possibly believe that would warrant fear of life and shooting through the door.

It's on the Detroit border. Anyone who knocks on a strangers door at this time of night is immediately going into the "this person is trying to rob me" category. You can say it was only one person was at the door but the guy inside his house doesn't know that.

I do have to wonder what kind of state she was in since she hit a parked car. Drunk or high? Take someone who is possbily intoxicated going door to door at 1AM to 3AM and on top of that, being in a car accident. That person is going to look like a mess at that point.

 

[Absolution75]

If the prosecution doesn't feel they can meet the burden of proof they will not charge the home owner and that may be why no charges have been filed at this point.

True, but honestly I've seen charges brought up on people that were wayyy less legitimate than this instance. If a most likely non-threatening 19 year old person gets killed... someone should at least go to trial. I'm not going to say there should be a conviction... but at least highly consider it. It doesn't even seem like they care. I don't think someone knocking on your door allows you to kill someone. The burden of proof is the guy even admits to accidentally killing her... that's manslaughter in my book. I don't necessarily think he deserves to go to jail for a long time, but there should be consequences for both/either the negligent discharge (not sure about state laws for that one, but you can go to jail for it I believe) and killing someone.

 

[nehalem256]

And to add, even if he heard someone knocking unusually hard or maybe try to turn the doorknob, I can't possibly believe that would warrant fear of life and shooting through the door.

Because its totally normal for people to come to your house at 3am and turn your doorknob.

Especially in such wonderful areas as Detroit! Hardly and crime goes on there.

I do have to wonder what kind of state she was in since she hit a parked car. Drunk or high? Take someone who is possbily intoxicated going door to door at 1AM to 3AM and on top of that, being in a car accident. That person is going to look like a mess at that point.

Its totally normal to run into parked cars and then wait 2 hours before going to get help.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131107/METRO01/311070121#ixzz2k5w9OgC5

“I’m confident when the evidence comes it will show that my client was justified and acted as a reasonable person would who was in fear for his life,” Bloomfield Hills attorney Cheryl Carpenter said Thursday.

So, not an accident now?

 

[Geosurface]

Interestingly, in this CNN segment they describe it as him shooting when the door was open, not closed. And they say he came out of the door.

One thing is clear... you simply cannot trust early reports.

 

[Sheep221]

Because its totally normal for people to come to your house at 3am and turn your doorknob.

Especially in such wonderful areas as Detroit! Hardly and crime goes on there.



Its totally normal to run into parked cars and then wait 2 hours before going to get help.

Don't try to justify shooter's actions, he is a moron and should be treated that way. Even if you want to shoot, you don't do that until the threat to your life is actually there. Even if the girl was drunk, or high or she was just looking for help, she did nothing that she would deserve to be killed for. Anyone here who says otherwise is an asshole and it won't change when you close the browser window.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Looks like the "Rest of the Story" is begining to come out and why no charges have been filed.

 

[classy]

Interestingly, in this CNN segment they describe it as him shooting when the door was open, not closed. And they say he came out of the door.

One thing is clear... you simply cannot trust early reports.

If that's the case and by looking at the investigators taking pictures of the door, he definitely did not shoot through the door, its either murder or manslaughter. There is some question as to what she was doing for two hours, but I don't think that has any relevance given there is no proof she was trying to rob him. This case sounds a lot like the Texas man's case

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...27_1_texas-man-texas-firefighter-deadly-force

If he came outside and did not call the police, I can't imagine how he can't be charged. Now if she hit a parked car and no one heard it, my thoughts are she was drunk or fell asleep and didn't wake up till two hours later.

 

[classy]

Looks like the "Rest of the Story" is begining to come out and why no charges have been filed.

Yea upstanding guy defending himself............................against a girl