19 Year Old Girl Shot Looking for Help

[shira]

What part of the law don't you understand that deadly force can be used upon somebody trying to enter the threshold illegally?

A covered porch is considered part of the dwelling in that state.

Learn the lesson. Don't do that shit lest you get dead. That's the lesson here. Don't do that.

So if you heard knocking at your front door at 3 AM, you'd shoot through the door, because the very fact of their being on your front porch is an "invasion" of your home?

 

[shira]

Insert someone with Alzheimer's instead of Renisha McBride, would it be ok if they were dead too?

Or even an abandoned child searching for help. I mean, sounds like the homeowner doesn't need to do any sort of "due diligence." If the homeowner thinks there's someone who is trying to "invade" their home (which according to Spidey means just stepping onto a covered porch and knocking on the door), the homeowner can use deadly force.

If this is what "Castle Doctrine" really means, then a major change to these laws is needed.

 

[LTC8K6]

Maybe you missed the picture. He didn't shoot through the door. He shot her on the porch, so she was outside. So how did he get outside? He had to have opened the door.

I can shoot you from 100 yards away through my front door without going outside, so what are you talking about? I can certainly shoot you on my porch through the open front door without going outside.

So far, all of the evidence coming out is helping the homeowner.

 

[shira]

If the homeowner opened his door (which he must have done, since he didn't shoot through the door), he would have seen a young, unarmed woman on his porch. At that moment, there would be no valid claim of "reasonably fearing for his life," nor could he reasonably claim that he believed she was breaking in (since if he believed that, then why on earth would he open his door?). And his claim that the gun went off accidentally clearly establishes that he wasn't trying to shoot her out of fear.

Thus, I cannot fathom how the castle doctrine can be claimed as a justification for the killing. Unless there are other relevant facts not yet revealed, this man is going to be charged with at least negligent discharge of a gun or involuntary manslaughter.

 

[2timer]

It's more plausible that she would try to enter the house (thinking she was home) when the door opened, but not being a point blank range shot argues against it.

Hmmm, that's interesting. Never realized what the "shot at a distance" finding implied until you mentioned it. Based on the facts you can't say she was shot while standing next to the door, because it makes no sense.

I can shoot you from 100 yards away through my front door without going outside, so what are you talking about? I can certainly shoot you on my porch through the open front door without going outside.

So far, all of the evidence coming out is helping the homeowner.

Through an open door? Who opened the door?

If the homeowner opened the door, and she was standing at a distance away from the door on the porch, what does that do to the suggestion that he believed she was trying to force the door open?

 

[Geosurface]

It's a real shame the sexism inherent to our society. I feel that if he's charged, both that charge and a jury's decision will be impacted by the respective genders of those involved.

I do believe if this was a 54 year old woman home alone, at 3:40 in the morning and some 19 year old guy was banging her door down, there would be considerably more sympathy and understanding for what she did, accidental or otherwise.

 

[LTC8K6]

Hmmm, that's interesting. Never realized what the "shot at a distance" finding implied until you mentioned it. Based on the facts you can't say she was shot while standing next to the door, because it makes no sense.



Through an open door? Who opened the door?

If the homeowner opened the door, and she was standing at a distance away from the door on the porch, what does that do to the suggestion that he believed she was trying to force the door open?

You asked how he got outside, not who opened the door. I responded that he didn't need to go outside.

We don't know who opened the door.

I don't recall any claims of her trying to "break the door open"...

I recall "accidentally fired" the shotgun while investigating if a burglar was at the door.

 

[Soundmanred]

This could have been my drunk driving daughter. She did not live long enough to kill anyone. This is a sad day for all Americans.

Thanks Obama!

 

[werepossum]

Hmmm, that's interesting. Never realized what the "shot at a distance" finding implied until you mentioned it. Based on the facts you can't say she was shot while standing next to the door, because it makes no sense.



Through an open door? Who opened the door?

If the homeowner opened the door, and she was standing at a distance away from the door on the porch, what does that do to the suggestion that he believed she was trying to force the door open?

The only scenario that really makes sense to me is that she was trying to open the door or attract attention, homeowner awakens thinking someone is trying to break in, homeowner opens the door to confront the burglar, then backs up to get room to point shotgun with barrel out of burglar's reach. Maybe she tries to walk in initially, but if so she must have quickly stopped or he fired very quickly. Maybe he fired immediately (head shot rather than center of mass argues against this), maybe he fired deliberately and changed his story after seeing who he had killed, maybe he stuck the gun in her face and accidentally shot her.

It's a real shame the sexism inherent to our society. I feel that if he's charged, both that charge and a jury's decision will be impacted by the respective genders of those involved.

I do believe if this was a 54 year old woman home alone, at 3:40 in the morning and some 19 year old guy was banging her door down, there would be considerably more sympathy and understanding for what she did, accidental or otherwise.

No doubt.

You asked how he got outside, not who opened the door. I responded that he didn't need to go outside.

We don't know who opened the door.

I don't recall any claims of her trying to "break the door open"...

I recall "accidentally fired" the shotgun while investigating if a burglar was at the door.

Had to have been him. Otherwise she would have been well inside before he was up and armed. She was trying to open the door and/or attract attention, but obviously doors and locks can withstand drunk teenage girls.

 

[werepossum]

Thanks Obama!

LOL. Well, it is a sad day. A young girl is dead, her family is devastated, homeowner's life is wrecked, and the only possible silver lining is that a habitual drunk driver may have been removed before she killed anyone, but fatal pre-emptive strikes on teenage girls is not exactly cause for celebration, although her behavior removes a lot of my sympathy.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I do believe had the homeowner opened the door and then shot the young woman he would have been charged by now. We also know that the shot was not at a close range and the porch is small therefore it doesn't make sense that the homeowner opened the door and shot her on the porch. I suspect the homeowner was in the house and the young woman was at the door and a single 00 buckshot pellet penetrated the door/struck her in the face while the remainder of the pellets struck the inner wall/s in the house

 

[BlitzPuppet]

You know, I wonder what would happen if your own child - drunk late one evening and too incapacitated to find the key - struggles with the front door to get in. You of course would shoot first and ask questions later.

Would you tell us with this same smug confidence how you "protest" by shooting anyone trying to break in? Would you say that to your wife?

You and your self-satisfied ilk are accidents just waiting to happen.

People seem to REALLY be grasping at straws.

I may be wrong here but I thought I read he LIVED ALONE and didn't have any kids?

If I live alone and someone tries to come in at 3am, they obviously don't live there so what else could they be there for? You damn well better expect to have a gun pointed at you. Some guns are modified so it only takes a few lbs of pressure before the sear releases the hammer...boom.

I know it's unfortunate, I know it's sad. Race aside the woman was an f'n idiot to go wandering around at 3am knocking on doors "probably asking for help after her wreck" when she had already gotten some on scene before she fled.

Oh wait, she was just one level below literally pissing her pants out of intoxication. She was "confused"

 

[Jaskalas]

It's a real shame the sexism inherent to our society. I feel that if he's charged, both that charge and a jury's decision will be impacted by the respective genders of those involved.

I do believe if this was a 54 year old woman home alone, at 3:40 in the morning and some 19 year old guy was banging her door down, there would be considerably more sympathy and understanding for what she did, accidental or otherwise.

Evidence of "banging the door down?"

 

[nehalem256]

People seem to REALLY be grasping at straws.

People have been grasping at straws the whole time. They have tried to claiming that hitting parked cars at high speed and wandering away from accident scenes is totally normal behavior.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

There's an announcement at 11am EST, guess we'll finally get to hear what really happened and whether charges will be filed against the homeowner. You can watch it live at this link.

http://www.freep.com/livestream/art...ibly-announce-charges-Renisha-McBride-slaying

A Dearborn Heights man will learn today at 11 a.m. whether he faces charges in the shooting death of Renisha McBride. Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy will make an announcement about the case at a news conference today, when she may decide whether the homeowner who shot McBride will face criminal charges. McBride, 19, was shot in the face Nov. 2 by a 54-year-old man who told police he thought someone was breaking into his home and accidentally fired his 12-gauge shotgun.

 

[allisolm]

CNN says the homeowner has been charged.

 

[spidey07]

Another witchhunt and lynch mob.

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

CNN says the homeowner has been charged.

Time for the circus to (officially) begin!

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Charged with 2nd degree murder.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11...ces-details-of-renisha-mcbride-investigation/

DETROIT (CBS Detroit) Theodore Paul Wafer, 54, is charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and a felony firearm charge in the shooting death of Renisha McBride, 19, Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy announced during a press conference Friday. Wafer had reportedly told police he killed McBride in self defense.

“There is no duty to retreat when you’re in your own house,” Worthy said, quoting Michigan law, and adding the person acting in self defense must believe their life is in danger.

She added the victim and Wafer did not know each other, and she denied race was a factor in the killing.

 

[allisolm]

Charged with 2nd degree murder.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11...ces-details-of-renisha-mcbride-investigation/

DETROIT (CBS Detroit) Theodore Paul Wafer, 54, is charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and a felony firearm charge in the shooting death of Renisha McBride, 19, Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy announced during a press conference Friday. Wafer had reportedly told police he killed McBride in self defense.

“There is no duty to retreat when you’re in your own house,” Worthy said, quoting Michigan law, and adding the person acting in self defense must believe their life is in danger.

She added the victim and Wafer did not know each other, and she denied race was a factor in the killing.

Not that I believe everything I read since "facts" seem to change frequently in media reports, but that article also says Worthy mentioned there were no signs of forced entry to the home.

CNN says the door was open when the shot was fired but the screen door was closed and locked. According to CNN, the prosecutor said the evidence suggests the homeowner opened the door himself.

 

[classy]

Another witchhunt and lynch mob.

Absolutely disgusting.

“She was found with a very large gunshot would to the face,” Worthy said, adding there were no signs of forced entry to the home.

The mans ex

An ex-girlfriend of the man who shot Ranisha McBride after she knocked on his front door looking for help today defended him saying: 'He's not a racist'.
The defense is even more surprising because the woman went on to say 19-year-old Ms McBride's killer, who has still not been officially identified, was a heavy drinker with a bad temper.
In fact their relationship ended so sourly they actually wound up in court, fighting a stalking case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Detroit-man-shot-Renisha-McBride-racist.html


And this time around the police immediately wanted him charged, but the prosecutor's office wanted more investigation done.

 

[M0RPH]

Another witchhunt and lynch mob.

Absolutely disgusting.

All we need now is for the media to start showing pictures of Renisha Mcbride when she was about 13.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Just watch those taxpayer dollars flushed down a hole to satiate a racist lynch mob.

The more often this happens, the more 'boy who cried wolf' mentality will prosper.

 

[Geosurface]

Getting behind the wheel with the kind of BAC she had is an incredibly dangerous, selfish, and short-sighted decision. And it's apparently one she'd made before, given her track record of "tearing up" previous vehicles.

When you do that, there is a very good chance you will end up ruining/ending your own life and the lives of others. Which is exactly what happened here, because of her decision to get behind the wheel absolutely plastered. Wtf was her BAC at the time of the crash, I wonder? And she had an enabling family who kept helping her get more vehicles...

The way she ended up losing her life and ruining someone else's is a bit novel, but it's still a predictable result of that kind of enormously intoxicated driving.

Charges may have been appropriate, and it may be appropriate for him to stand trial... but I can't help but feel bad for someone who is simply asleep in their home, someone who has dealt with previous burglaries, and who suddenly is awoken and scared shitless by what he believes is another break in... and his life effectively is over because he didn't handle it better.

I really wish we could know what really went down exactly. Because there are in fact versions of his actions which would make me lose ALL sympathy for him. I just find it hard to believe that those versions are likely. It seems more likely he really was afraid.

Sucks for her and for him that she conducted herself in such a highly illegal way that night which resulted in her needing to be at his doorstep.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Not that I believe everything I read since "facts" seem to change frequently in media reports, but that article also says Worthy mentioned there were no signs of forced entry to the home.

CNN says the door was open when the shot was fired but the screen door was closed and locked. According to CNN, the prosecutor said the evidence suggests the homeowner opened the door himself.

I've always wondered if the homeowner left the inner door open and was allowing the home to air out (my parents used to do years ago, specially after cooking fish) that evening. I guess we'll have to wait for the actual evidence to be released/revealed, hopefully that will be included in the arrest affidavit. I still think unless the prosecution can prove the homeowner couldn't have had reasonable fear from someone trying to enter the house in the early morning hours this will end in an acquittal.