That won't change even if they get x3D parts I am afraid.As far as X3D, that's something Dell's Alienware needs to get, because their "gaming desktop PCs" are a laughingstock.
That won't change even if they get x3D parts I am afraid.As far as X3D, that's something Dell's Alienware needs to get, because their "gaming desktop PCs" are a laughingstock.
If you compare the platform of Z6 vs NVL. Z6 is clearly inferiorBut I was talking about Zen 6 SKUs. If the new AMD desktop IOD provide the features currently missing in Zen 4/5 desktop IODs, then Dell will be able to offer full AMD desktop as alternative to Arrow Lake / Nova Lake.
If you compare the platform of Z6 vs NVL. Z6 is clearly inferior
> No Integrated TB5
> 4 less Pci-E gen 5 lanes
> BT/WiFi
Depends tbh Wifi/BT Combo is something no one would say no to every pre built desktop has this.I don't think these move the needle by more than 1 degree.
Well NVL has TB5 along with retimers integrate into SoC.TB (3 or 4 or 5) would be nice but since USB4 is essentially a TB3 with a couple things removed, it's not that bad. As long as USB4 is indeed included, if possible with DP capability.
Depends tbh Wifi/BT Combo is something no one would say no to every pre built desktop has this.
TB (3 or 4 or 5) would be nice but since USB4 is essentially a TB3 with a couple things removed, it's not that bad. As long as USB4 is indeed included, if possible with DP capability.
Add-in boards with TB are overpriced like big time and often with a very narrow compatibility.
The rest is meh. I much prefer a proper Ethernet Intel controller (which means at least 2.5G) than a WiFi one (even Intel one).
The market is trending towards people preferring to use wifi more and more, even on desktops. Building in a wifi controller OEMs are going to want as a feature in 100% of builds makes sense. Building in an ethernet controller that OEMs are increasingly making a premium feature (especially in mobile, but I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing lower end desktops without it) does not.
Only the digital part of wifi and Bt, wich is negligible, can be integrated,Who is having problems with WIFI in 2025? It seems like one of the technologies that just works and has worked for more than a decade.
Only the digital part of wifi and Bt, wich is negligible, can be integrated,
the biggest part, wich is the RF circuitry, will keep being external.
Integrating the digital part complicate things, that s just a mean to grab a few $
at the expense of MB s manufacturing versatility.
For the average joe it will change nothing, for whom is tech oriented it meansAnd no difference to the end user, or something to take into account for purchasing decisions.
Intel does this with their PCHs and PCDs?integrating wifi/bt into x86 just seems like a massive waste of transistors
Ironically AM5 users who wants to put Intel Wifi 7 solution in their MB.Who is having problems with WIFI in 2025? It seems like one of the technologies that just works and has worked for more than a decade.
I don't think there is a single OEM PC sold without built in WIFI. Same with Bluetooth...
This seems like a conversation from 2020 or 2015 or 2010 or even 2005.
Ironically AM5 users who wants to put Intel Wifi 7 solution in their MB.
We are back to the old intel marketing with the CPU accelerating internet connections,Ironically AM5 users who wants to put Intel Wifi 7 solution in their MB.
Only if it ships with 5 Ghz band 😭😭i mean, anything above wifi 4 is just a gimmick, wifi 4 is up to 600 Mb/s.
Only the digital part of wifi and Bt, wich is negligible, can be integrated,
the biggest part, wich is the RF circuitry, will keep being external.
Integrating the digital part complicate things, that s just a mean to grab a few $
at the expense of MB s manufacturing versatility.
You want analog shoreline somewhere offdie and on a cheap node and expensive stuff (DSP cores and MACs) on cutting edge.Once you're doing chiplets there is nothing stopping you from putting the RF "on chip"
A wifi card is basicaly the same as a phone LTE modem, good luck integrating such a huge part in a chiplet, beside it would result in a catastrophic signal/noise ratio for the receiver, for obvious reasons the RF circuitry should be kept as far as possible from high frequencies sources, and the CPU is a huge one.Once you're doing chiplets there is nothing stopping you from putting the RF "on chip". Maybe it complicates things signal wise enough you don't want to do that, but you already need components on a board to support a CPU, that's just a special case (and I suppose you could skip it if you were doing something like an ATM where you specificially don't want to support wifi/BT)
No, it doesn't. HEDT and gaming markets have a price point that is driven by the market, not by the performance within that segment. The highest end gaming CPU (as an example) at launch (it's highest price point in its life cycle), is priced at $500-$700. It doesn't matter how it performs. The best performing will likely be at the top end of this range while the lower performing option (by OEM) will be near the bottom. Going from one generation to the next does not raise the market price (although inflation eventually does to a degree).And come on, if N2P CCDs are smaller and can clock 7-10% higher, that absolutely allows for higher prices and margins, they'd probably leave more money on the table by using N3P.
That's a non-argument.
Possibly. I haven't done the math.Nevermind that one issue you're ignoring is that with 12 cores and 48MB L3, N3P might simply not be dense enough to keep the CCD size compatible with the AM5 package, especially for the 2xCCD models, so the N2 logic transistor shrink might even be necessary in that regard, with the perf/efficiency as additional argument on top.
Your mouth straight to God's ear. It must be true.b) AMD isn't getting into OEM DT any time soon
Agree. It is for this reason that I hold out hope that NVL will actually post meaningful performance improvements.Intel does not seem to do very well when CPU and memory controllers are not on the same die. We will see if NVL finally cracks this problem for Intel.
Yes, but A16 may not offer enough of a benefit over N2 to justify an entire family design change. Moving forward, it may require a double die shrink to make it worthwhile to move to a new process, and thus a new generation of processors.A16 should be there.
yeah it does which is why ARL-S is toilet cheap.It doesn't matter how it performs
What matters is the ASP of the main margin additive part.No, it doesn't. HEDT and gaming markets have a price point that is driven by the market, not by the performance within that segment. The highest end gaming CPU (as an example) at launch (it's highest price point in its life cycle), is priced at $500-$700. It doesn't matter how it performs. The best performing will likely be at the top end of this range while the lower performing option (by OEM) will be near the bottom. Going from one generation to the next does not raise the market price (although inflation eventually does to a degree).