Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

[adroc_thurston]

With 155mm2 leaked die size for IOD and N4P it ain't cheap it's expensive than two Zen 5 CCD Combined alone.

Duh.

But I thought most of the mobile was using RDNA5.

The opposite.

Which really makes me wonder what's the point of Gorgon Point

Cost.

It would make more sense if Gorgon Point was Zen 6 with RDNA3.5 and Medusa Zen 6 with RDNA5

For nerds like you.

So. then, is AMD doing NPUs with majority of the mobile lineup, in all the pre-RDNA5 SKUs?

Yes.
Moreover, it's a bigger NPU than ever.

 

[Joe NYC]

Which product is N2X in 2026 lol there are no N2X products planned for 2026. Those are likely 2027.

I don't think AMD is going to wait that long to launch Zen 6 desktop.

 

[511]

I don't think AMD is going to wait that long to launch Zen 6 desktop.

Ofc

Duh.

It's true lol

 

[Joe NYC]

With 155mm2 leaked die size for IOD and N4P it ain't cheap it's expensive than two Zen 5 CCD Combined alone.

Which IOD would that be? I am a little confused now.

I thought that was the original leak for Zen 6, but it seemed that new leaks surpassed it, suggesting there would be Zen 6 cores on the SoC, from LP to regular, and that all the dies with Zen 6 cores would be at least N3.

Or are these different iterations?

 

[marees]

I can see that desktop IOD would be just fine with RDNA3.5. But I thought most of the mobile was using RDNA5.

If there are mobile SKUs with RDNA3.5, that definitely de-risks the launch of Zen 6. Launch can proceed just fine in mid 2026

Which really makes me wonder what's the point of Gorgon Point. If we are ~9 months away from launch of Zen6 mobile SKUs, what's the point of launching any more Zen 5 mobile SKUs in this short time window, when these Gorgon Point SKUs will overlap substantially with Zen 6.

It would make more sense if Gorgon Point was Zen 6 with RDNA3.5 and Medusa Zen 6 with RDNA5



So. then, is AMD doing NPUs with majority of the mobile lineup, in all the pre-RDNA5 SKUs? That would extend the life of the NPUs, and mediocrity resulting from wasted die space for extra year at least.

I believe mobile monolithic is all RDNA 3.5 + Microsoft NPU tax
This is following 3 on strix point socket

1. Medusa point 1
2. Medusa point 2 "little"
3. Medusa point 3 "baby" Bumblebee

Chiplet stuff is RDNA 5 (without NPU tax?)

1. Smaller Medusa Premium (next gen series S / handheld) on strix point socket
2. Larger Medusa Halo on strix halo socket

So monolithic RDNA 5+ apus (without NPU tax?) should be zen 7 (2029 / 2030)

 

[511]

Which IOD would that be? I am a little confused now.

I thought that was the original leak for Zen 6, but it seemed that new leaks surpassed it, suggesting there would be Zen 6 cores on the SoC, from LP to regular, and that all the dies with Zen 6 cores would be at least N3.

Or are these different iterations?

I meant the Zen 6 Desktop IO die which is rumored to be ~150mm2

 

[adroc_thurston]

should be zen 7 (2029 / 2030)

Oh what the hell it's not 3 years later

 

[Joe NYC]

I meant the Zen 6 Desktop IO die which is rumored to be ~150mm2

If this is on N4P, it then looks like a scaled town Strix Halo. It likely contains NPU and greater number of CU than current desktop. Maybe 8?

One advantage of this would be that AMD would not have to sell these to corporate PCs desktops, instead of APUs in a socket, for companies like Dell. Intel will have something like this in Nova Lake, so AMD will need to stay competitive.

 

[adroc_thurston]

it then looks like a scaled town Strix Halo

Why would it.

It likely contains NPU and greater number of CU than current desktop. Maybe 8?

Why would it.

One advantage of this would be that AMD would not have to sell these to corporate PCs desktops, instead of APUs in a socket, for companies like Dell. Intel will have something like this in Nova Lake, so AMD will need to stay competitive.

a) this is nonsense, MDS1 lo will be the main commercial part everywhere
b) AMD isn't getting into OEM DT any time soon

 

[Joe NYC]

Oh what the hell it's not 3 years later

Yeah, if the cadence is 2 years, then:
- Zen 6 mid 2026
- Zen 7 mid 2028

 

[511]

If this is on N4P, it then looks like a scaled town Strix Halo. It likely contains NPU and greater number of CU than current desktop. Maybe 8?

One advantage of this would be that AMD would not have to sell these to corporate PCs desktops, instead of APUs in a socket, for companies like Dell. Intel will have something like this in Nova Lake, so AMD will need to stay competitive.

Intel has a unified hub on 18A with IMC/Display/Media/LP-E and waste of die space unit that is shared across mobile and Desktop. Intel's reuse is very good with NVL which will be shared with RZL unless Intel s***** the bed with Fabric/LLC.

 

[511]

Yeah, if the cadence is 2 years, then:
- Zen 6 mid 2026
- Zen 7 mid 2028

It won't be on A14 if It's mid 2028

 

[Joe NYC]

Why would it.
Why would it.

It seemed that 155mm2 on N4 would be quite big, but I just checked, and Zen 4 IOD on N6 is 124 mm2. So not that much bigger.

So maybe still 2 CUs, but I would still bet on NPU.

a) this is nonsense, MDS1 lo will be the main commercial part everywhere

So, what MLID posted here, but with RDNA3.5 at launch.
Also mentions AM5, so this could still be the part for low end corporate desktops.

Hopefully, AMD can get this one out on 2 year anniversary of Strix Point launch, which was mid 2024, not much later.

b) AMD isn't getting into OEM DT any time soon

Maybe the desktop with more modern IOD can get into higher end corporate desktop SKUs?

 

[Joe NYC]

Intel has a unified hub on 18A with IMC/Display/Media/LP-E and waste of die space unit that is shared across mobile and Desktop. Intel's reuse is very good with NVL which will be shared with RZL unless Intel s***** the bed with Fabric/LLC.

Intel does not seem to do very well when CPU and memory controllers are not on the same die. We will see if NVL finally cracks this problem for Intel.

 

[Joe NYC]

It won't be on A14 if It's mid 2028

A16 should be there.

 

[adroc_thurston]

So maybe still 2 CUs, but I would still bet on NPU.

It's not gonna be 2CU, but do not overestimate configs anywhere.

Hopefully, AMD can get this one out on 2 year anniversary of Strix Point launch, which was mid 2024, not much later.

Later. Not as late as some may think, though.

Maybe the desktop with more modern IOD can get into higher end corporate desktop SKUs?

They already sell Threadripper there.

 

[lucasworais]

Moreover, it's a bigger NPU than ever.

I thought NPUs where dead due to gfx13

 

[Joe NYC]

They already sell Threadripper there.

There is a pretty big gap between low end desktops that Dell sells and Threadripper. That gap is now occupied a whole bunch of Arrow Lake CPUs, where full AMD desktop would be a better choice, if AMD desktop checked all the checkboxes that Dell demands.

 

[511]

I thought NPUs where dead due to gfx13

Not in Zen 6 Desktop

 

[Joe NYC]

I thought NPUs where dead due to gfx13

These would be RDNA3.5 laptops. We will likely have to wait for RDNA5 for complete removal of NPU.

 

[511]

There is a pretty big gap between low end desktops that Dell sells and Threadripper. That gap is now occupied a whole bunch of Arrow Lake CPUs, where full AMD desktop would be a better choice, if AMD desktop checked all the checkboxes that Dell demands.

THe only SKU that will make sense is X3D Desktop

 

[fastandfurious6]

And I suspect the Medusa Premium/Halo SKUs (aka those that use RDNA5) are 2nd half of 2027.

H2 2027 is very late. PS6 will arrive earlier with rdna'5', why not just release similar variant for PC

 

[Joe NYC]

THe only SKU that will make sense is X3D Desktop

Why is that? If AMD desktop has an NPU and ok iGPU, it will be equivalent or better than Intel counterpart (Arrow Lake, Nova Lake)

 

[511]

Why is that? If AMD desktop has an NPU and ok iGPU, it will be equivalent or better than Intel counterpart (Arrow Lake, Nova Lake)

Let's see the current lineup
> No NPU
> QSV is far superior than anything AMD has
For desktop AMD should sell Dell X3D
Future only time will tell the platform feature but Zen 6 is to unlikely match NVL in this regard from the current info.

 

[Joe NYC]

Let's see the current lineup
> No NPU
> QSV is far superior than anything AMD has
For desktop AMD should sell Dell X3D
Future only time will tell the platform feature but Zen 6 is to unlikely match NVL in this regard from the current info.

Old Phoenix APUs which Dell sells have the same APU as Arrow Lake.

But I was talking about Zen 6 SKUs. If the new AMD desktop IOD provide the features currently missing in Zen 4/5 desktop IODs, then Dell will be able to offer full AMD desktop as alternative to Arrow Lake / Nova Lake.

As far as X3D, that's something Dell's Alienware needs to get, because their "gaming desktop PCs" are a laughingstock.