Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

Page 335 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,950
6,258
136
Reaching Apple's IPC level does not guarantee reaching Apple's efficiency level.

I think Apple cares more about that then they do chasing after hertz.

I also think that both companies have different approaches to getting their increased IPC and that simply trying to emulate someone else's approach with consideration for your own strengths is a sure way to fail.
 

adroc_thurston

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2023
2,626
3,867
96
I think Apple cares more about that then they do chasing after hertz.
their new P-core is literally designed around chasing hertz.
I also think that both companies have different approaches to getting their increased IPC
Big wide core with chungus reorder buffer and a very mean front-end is a fairly universal recipe.
It's how you execute on it that makes all the difference.
consideration for your own strengths is a sure way to fail.
See CPUs have largely converged on being deep and wide and mean OoO machines.
Funny outliers like Netburst or POWER6 or Bulldozer or Niagara no longer exist.
 

DisEnchantment

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2017
1,626
5,907
136
What a dream it was for Greymon/Vegeta and the others.

In the dream, it was an asian dude based in the mainland with connections to the packaging facilities.
In the dreams RDNA3 perf was vivid and absolutely demolished everything on the market.

The RDNA3 dream came to a stop and in the ensuing reality she is an Indian female in Bangalore now discovering out Zen 5 facts .

Wonder she/he/they/them? will wake up and another dream ensues?

This is wild, inception is real. Dream within a dream.
Just head over to the RDNA3 thread, dream in dream. Wake up from RDNA3 in Zen5 thread and wake from Zen5 in Zen6 thread.

Right now in this thread we need to spin the top or let ourselves free fall from the chair just to be sure.
 

APU_Fusion

Senior member
Dec 16, 2013
863
1,329
136
I mean …
What a dream it was for Greymon/Vegeta and the others.

In the dream, it was an asian dude based in the mainland with connections to the packaging facilities.
In the dreams RDNA3 perf was vivid and absolutely demolished everything on the market.

The RDNA3 dream came to a stop and in the ensuing reality she is an Indian female in Bangalore now discovering out Zen 5 facts .

Wonder she/he/they/them? will wake up and another dream ensues?

This is wild, inception is real. Dream within a dream.
Just head over to the RDNA3 thread, dream in dream. Wake up from RDNA3 in Zen5 thread and wake from Zen5 in Zen6 thread.

Right now in this thread we need to spin the top or let ourselves free fall from the chair just to be sure.
what if … like Zen 5 … like spelled arrow lake. Zen and arrow lake are like totally symmetrical and in love man. One is the other as the other is the one.

I IPC You
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,742
4,626
136
What a dream it was for Greymon/Vegeta and the others.

In the dream, it was an asian dude based in the mainland with connections to the packaging facilities.
In the dreams RDNA3 perf was vivid and absolutely demolished everything on the market.

The RDNA3 dream came to a stop and in the ensuing reality she is an Indian female in Bangalore now discovering out Zen 5 facts .

Wonder she/he/they/them? will wake up and another dream ensues?

This is wild, inception is real. Dream within a dream.
Just head over to the RDNA3 thread, dream in dream. Wake up from RDNA3 in Zen5 thread and wake from Zen5 in Zen6 thread.

Right now in this thread we need to spin the top or let ourselves free fall from the chair just to be sure.
Yep.

Zen 5 will be barely faster than RTX 3070.

:p
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
407
693
96
their new P-core is literally designed around chasing hertz.

Big wide core with chungus reorder buffer and a very mean front-end is a fairly universal recipe.
It's how you execute on it that makes all the difference.

See CPUs have largely converged on being deep and wide and mean OoO machines.
Funny outliers like Netburst or POWER6 or Bulldozer or Niagara no longer exist.
So Zen 5 is the final send-off AM5 Platform with a deep, wider and smarter processor. And Zen 6 debuts the AM6 platform with a just as deep, just as wide and even more smart processor, with focus on the back-end and the uncore (New IOD with RDNA 4/5 IGP and others changes), with also the Zen 6 Desktop platform being basically a small MI/Venice in terms of structure?

AMD has a quite interesting roadmap, if so. Basically aiming for leadership from top to bottom. It's an interest contrast to Intel, which appears almost lethargic, if not a very slow ship to steer. But, as they always say, execution is key.
 

Joe NYC

Platinum Member
Jun 26, 2021
2,093
2,648
106
What a dream it was for Greymon/Vegeta and the others.

In the dream, it was an asian dude based in the mainland with connections to the packaging facilities.
In the dreams RDNA3 perf was vivid and absolutely demolished everything on the market.

The RDNA3 dream came to a stop and in the ensuing reality she is an Indian female in Bangalore now discovering out Zen 5 facts .

Wonder she/he/they/them? will wake up and another dream ensues?

This is wild, inception is real. Dream within a dream.
Just head over to the RDNA3 thread, dream in dream. Wake up from RDNA3 in Zen5 thread and wake from Zen5 in Zen6 thread.

Right now in this thread we need to spin the top or let ourselves free fall from the chair just to be sure.

There were two possible outcomes:
1. RDNA3 would perform at or near 3 GHz as many (including at AMD) expected
2. It would have to be clocked down to much less - for reasons.

RDNA3 fail was quite unique in recent AMD execution track record.

Making conclusions today, like it was obvious this unique event would take place is a little bit like a lottery winner lecturing those who did not win as being stupid.
 

Kepler_L2

Senior member
Sep 6, 2020
398
1,557
106
So Zen 5 is the final send-off AM5 Platform with a deep, wider and smarter processor. And Zen 6 debuts the AM6 platform with a just as deep, just as wide and even more smart processor, with focus on the back-end and the uncore (New IOD with RDNA 4/5 IGP and others changes), with also the Zen 6 Desktop platform being basically a small MI/Venice in terms of structure?

AMD has a quite interesting roadmap, if so. Basically aiming for leadership from top to bottom. It's an interest contrast to Intel, which appears almost lethargic, if not a very slow ship to steer. But, as they always say, execution is key.
AFAIK AMD has not yet decided if Zen6 will be on AM5 or a new platform.
 

DisEnchantment

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2017
1,626
5,907
136
Making conclusions today, like it was obvious this unique event would take place is a little bit like a lottery winner lecturing those who did not win as being stupid.
Excuse me, I have not been making such conclusions or predictions or any statement of fact.

But many are patrolling the forums handing out fact sheets on Zen 5 every third post, according to which my order for the 16C part would be delivered any time now. I am only not sure about the cooler.

In fact, these statements are never incorrect, just AMD had last minute changes indeed.
 

Joe NYC

Platinum Member
Jun 26, 2021
2,093
2,648
106
Excuse me, I have not been making such conclusions or predictions or any statement of fact.

But many are patrolling the forums handing out fact sheets on Zen 5 every third post, according to which my order for the 16C part would be delivered any time now. I am only not sure about the cooler.

In fact, these statements are never incorrect, just AMD had last minute changes indeed.

That seems like a little bit tongue in cheek.

There was, in fact, some internal breakdown inside AMD, that lead to RDNA3 underdelivering. Those people / leakers who predicted higher RDNA3 performance were in fact right. Those were the AMD internal design goals and performance targets.

If the upcoming RDNA3+ parts indeed clock at or near 3 GHz, it will be a confirmation of the above.

So, posts claiming some moral high ground, sitting on a high horse, for getting RDNA3 right or not falling for RDNA3 hype while disparaging those who expected AMD to meet its design goals - those posts don't really sit right with me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: krawcmac

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,065
3,726
136
That seems like a little bit tongue in cheek.

There was, in fact, some internal breakdown inside AMD, that lead to RDNA3 underdelivering. Those people / leakers who predicted higher RDNA3 performance were in fact right. Those were the AMD internal design goals and performance targets.

If the upcoming RDNA3+ parts indeed clock at or near 3 GHz, it will be a confirmation of the above.

So, posts claiming some moral high ground, sitting on a high horse, for getting RDNA3 right or not falling for RDNA3 hype while disparaging those who expected AMD to meet its design goals - those posts don't really sit right with me.
That s not much difficult to spot what went wrong with RDNA3, the chips still clock quite high but methink that for some reasons there were some critical circuitries within the GPU that didnt clock accordingly with the projected stock voltage.

It can be only 10% of the whole chip but they had to increase voltage by about 10%
for the whole to get the flawed parts working with inconditional stability, and at this rate this did increase the comsumption by 20% wich led to the missed perf/watt target, guess that it should be the main fix that will be done with RDNA3.5.
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,357
3,742
136
No, it's a new one, bigger and designed for higher clockspeeds.

No its not. It has been gaining clock speed as expected via process improvements, there has been no design specific to higher clock speeds. Do you really think that Intel and AMD alone are able to design CPUs that clock higher than 4 GHz, and M3 has the highest clocked cores Apple could possibly design? If you do you're hopelessly ignorant.

Do you really not understand why they have targeted lower clock speeds when their cores are explicitly designed to go into phones and the same core is copied unchanged into Apple Silicon CPUs - just with a bit higher clock since it can have a little higher power budget?
 

Kepler_L2

Senior member
Sep 6, 2020
398
1,557
106
No its not. It has been gaining clock speed as expected via process improvements, there has been no design specific to higher clock speeds. Do you really think that Intel and AMD alone are able to design CPUs that clock higher than 4 GHz, and M3 has the highest clocked cores Apple could possibly design? If you do you're hopelessly ignorant.

Do you really not understand why they have targeted lower clock speeds when their cores are explicitly designed to go into phones and the same core is copied unchanged into Apple Silicon CPUs - just with a bit higher clock since it can have a little higher power budget?
M3 increased L1 cache latency to allow for higher clocks.
 

poke01

Senior member
Mar 8, 2022
929
992
106
M3 increased L1 cache latency to allow for higher clocks.
The biggest question mark is why didn’t Apple give new codenames for the M3/A17 CPUs cores. They use the codenames as A16.

Anyhow, Apple clocking their cores higher is needed to compete in desktop. This is where AMD and Intel have huge lead.
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,159
1,113
136
The AMD playbook should be to release Zen 5 by June at the latest. That would give AMD the performance crown across all categories for 4-6 months. After Arrowlake releases, AMD should release a Zen 5 refresh on TSMC N3P. They could have a 45w 6C/12T and a 8C/16T cpu as well as a bunch of 65w/95w TDP SKU's. I am thinking Feb/March 2025 for TSMC N3P silicon. A 16C/32T Zen 5 CPU with a 95w TDP would be brutal for Intel no matter how crazy Arrowlake performance could be. People forget that Intel will be on true 5nm silicon with Arrowlake. This means Intel will have a huge efficiency gain over 10nm. The efficiency of Zen CPU's on TSMC has been their strongest point since moving to TSMC for Zen 2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97 and Kolifloro