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Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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FlameTail said:
Reaching Apple's IPC level does not guarantee reaching Apple's efficiency level.
Click to expand...

I think Apple cares more about that then they do chasing after hertz.

I also think that both companies have different approaches to getting their increased IPC and that simply trying to emulate someone else's approach with consideration for your own strengths is a sure way to fail.
 
Mopetar said:
I think Apple cares more about that then they do chasing after hertz.
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their new P-core is literally designed around chasing hertz.
Mopetar said:
I also think that both companies have different approaches to getting their increased IPC
Click to expand...
Big wide core with chungus reorder buffer and a very mean front-end is a fairly universal recipe.
It's how you execute on it that makes all the difference.
Mopetar said:
consideration for your own strengths is a sure way to fail.
Click to expand...
See CPUs have largely converged on being deep and wide and mean OoO machines.
Funny outliers like Netburst or POWER6 or Bulldozer or Niagara no longer exist.
 
What a dream it was for Greymon/Vegeta and the others.

In the dream, it was an asian dude based in the mainland with connections to the packaging facilities.
In the dreams RDNA3 perf was vivid and absolutely demolished everything on the market.

The RDNA3 dream came to a stop and in the ensuing reality she is an Indian female in Bangalore now discovering out Zen 5 facts .

Wonder she/he/they/them? will wake up and another dream ensues?

This is wild, inception is real. Dream within a dream.
Just head over to the RDNA3 thread, dream in dream. Wake up from RDNA3 in Zen5 thread and wake from Zen5 in Zen6 thread.

Right now in this thread we need to spin the top or let ourselves free fall from the chair just to be sure.
 
I mean …
DisEnchantment said:
What a dream it was for Greymon/Vegeta and the others.

In the dream, it was an asian dude based in the mainland with connections to the packaging facilities.
In the dreams RDNA3 perf was vivid and absolutely demolished everything on the market.

The RDNA3 dream came to a stop and in the ensuing reality she is an Indian female in Bangalore now discovering out Zen 5 facts .

Wonder she/he/they/them? will wake up and another dream ensues?

This is wild, inception is real. Dream within a dream.
Just head over to the RDNA3 thread, dream in dream. Wake up from RDNA3 in Zen5 thread and wake from Zen5 in Zen6 thread.

Right now in this thread we need to spin the top or let ourselves free fall from the chair just to be sure.
Click to expand...
what if … like Zen 5 … like spelled arrow lake. Zen and arrow lake are like totally symmetrical and in love man. One is the other as the other is the one.

I IPC You
 
DisEnchantment said:
What a dream it was for Greymon/Vegeta and the others.

In the dream, it was an asian dude based in the mainland with connections to the packaging facilities.
In the dreams RDNA3 perf was vivid and absolutely demolished everything on the market.

The RDNA3 dream came to a stop and in the ensuing reality she is an Indian female in Bangalore now discovering out Zen 5 facts .

Wonder she/he/they/them? will wake up and another dream ensues?

This is wild, inception is real. Dream within a dream.
Just head over to the RDNA3 thread, dream in dream. Wake up from RDNA3 in Zen5 thread and wake from Zen5 in Zen6 thread.

Right now in this thread we need to spin the top or let ourselves free fall from the chair just to be sure.
Click to expand...
Yep.

Zen 5 will be barely faster than RTX 3070.

😛
 
adroc_thurston said:
their new P-core is literally designed around chasing hertz.

Big wide core with chungus reorder buffer and a very mean front-end is a fairly universal recipe.
It's how you execute on it that makes all the difference.

See CPUs have largely converged on being deep and wide and mean OoO machines.
Funny outliers like Netburst or POWER6 or Bulldozer or Niagara no longer exist.
Click to expand...
So Zen 5 is the final send-off AM5 Platform with a deep, wider and smarter processor. And Zen 6 debuts the AM6 platform with a just as deep, just as wide and even more smart processor, with focus on the back-end and the uncore (New IOD with RDNA 4/5 IGP and others changes), with also the Zen 6 Desktop platform being basically a small MI/Venice in terms of structure?

AMD has a quite interesting roadmap, if so. Basically aiming for leadership from top to bottom. It's an interest contrast to Intel, which appears almost lethargic, if not a very slow ship to steer. But, as they always say, execution is key.
 
DisEnchantment said:
What a dream it was for Greymon/Vegeta and the others.

In the dream, it was an asian dude based in the mainland with connections to the packaging facilities.
In the dreams RDNA3 perf was vivid and absolutely demolished everything on the market.

The RDNA3 dream came to a stop and in the ensuing reality she is an Indian female in Bangalore now discovering out Zen 5 facts .

Wonder she/he/they/them? will wake up and another dream ensues?

This is wild, inception is real. Dream within a dream.
Just head over to the RDNA3 thread, dream in dream. Wake up from RDNA3 in Zen5 thread and wake from Zen5 in Zen6 thread.

Right now in this thread we need to spin the top or let ourselves free fall from the chair just to be sure.
Click to expand...

There were two possible outcomes:
1. RDNA3 would perform at or near 3 GHz as many (including at AMD) expected
2. It would have to be clocked down to much less - for reasons.

RDNA3 fail was quite unique in recent AMD execution track record.

Making conclusions today, like it was obvious this unique event would take place is a little bit like a lottery winner lecturing those who did not win as being stupid.
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
So Zen 5 is the final send-off AM5 Platform with a deep, wider and smarter processor. And Zen 6 debuts the AM6 platform with a just as deep, just as wide and even more smart processor, with focus on the back-end and the uncore (New IOD with RDNA 4/5 IGP and others changes), with also the Zen 6 Desktop platform being basically a small MI/Venice in terms of structure?

AMD has a quite interesting roadmap, if so. Basically aiming for leadership from top to bottom. It's an interest contrast to Intel, which appears almost lethargic, if not a very slow ship to steer. But, as they always say, execution is key.
Click to expand...
AFAIK AMD has not yet decided if Zen6 will be on AM5 or a new platform.
 
Panino Manino said:
Only if the update includes Lisa jumping on Nvidia's track, because there's no way RDNA4 will get any closer to Nvidia.
Click to expand...
In relevant metrics (PPAC) it should certainly be better than RDNA3 was relative to the comp, as RDNA4 should actually work as intended.
Absolute perf of course not as it is a midrange gen.
 
Joe NYC said:
Making conclusions today, like it was obvious this unique event would take place is a little bit like a lottery winner lecturing those who did not win as being stupid.
Click to expand...
Excuse me, I have not been making such conclusions or predictions or any statement of fact.

But many are patrolling the forums handing out fact sheets on Zen 5 every third post, according to which my order for the 16C part would be delivered any time now. I am only not sure about the cooler.

In fact, these statements are never incorrect, just AMD had last minute changes indeed.
 
DisEnchantment said:
Excuse me, I have not been making such conclusions or predictions or any statement of fact.

But many are patrolling the forums handing out fact sheets on Zen 5 every third post, according to which my order for the 16C part would be delivered any time now. I am only not sure about the cooler.

In fact, these statements are never incorrect, just AMD had last minute changes indeed.
Click to expand...

That seems like a little bit tongue in cheek.

There was, in fact, some internal breakdown inside AMD, that lead to RDNA3 underdelivering. Those people / leakers who predicted higher RDNA3 performance were in fact right. Those were the AMD internal design goals and performance targets.

If the upcoming RDNA3+ parts indeed clock at or near 3 GHz, it will be a confirmation of the above.

So, posts claiming some moral high ground, sitting on a high horse, for getting RDNA3 right or not falling for RDNA3 hype while disparaging those who expected AMD to meet its design goals - those posts don't really sit right with me.
 
Joe NYC said:
That seems like a little bit tongue in cheek.

There was, in fact, some internal breakdown inside AMD, that lead to RDNA3 underdelivering. Those people / leakers who predicted higher RDNA3 performance were in fact right. Those were the AMD internal design goals and performance targets.

If the upcoming RDNA3+ parts indeed clock at or near 3 GHz, it will be a confirmation of the above.

So, posts claiming some moral high ground, sitting on a high horse, for getting RDNA3 right or not falling for RDNA3 hype while disparaging those who expected AMD to meet its design goals - those posts don't really sit right with me.
Click to expand...
That s not much difficult to spot what went wrong with RDNA3, the chips still clock quite high but methink that for some reasons there were some critical circuitries within the GPU that didnt clock accordingly with the projected stock voltage.

It can be only 10% of the whole chip but they had to increase voltage by about 10%
for the whole to get the flawed parts working with inconditional stability, and at this rate this did increase the comsumption by 20% wich led to the missed perf/watt target, guess that it should be the main fix that will be done with RDNA3.5.
 
adroc_thurston said:
No, it's a new one, bigger and designed for higher clockspeeds.
Click to expand...

No its not. It has been gaining clock speed as expected via process improvements, there has been no design specific to higher clock speeds. Do you really think that Intel and AMD alone are able to design CPUs that clock higher than 4 GHz, and M3 has the highest clocked cores Apple could possibly design? If you do you're hopelessly ignorant.

Do you really not understand why they have targeted lower clock speeds when their cores are explicitly designed to go into phones and the same core is copied unchanged into Apple Silicon CPUs - just with a bit higher clock since it can have a little higher power budget?
 
Doug S said:
No its not. It has been gaining clock speed as expected via process improvements, there has been no design specific to higher clock speeds. Do you really think that Intel and AMD alone are able to design CPUs that clock higher than 4 GHz, and M3 has the highest clocked cores Apple could possibly design? If you do you're hopelessly ignorant.

Do you really not understand why they have targeted lower clock speeds when their cores are explicitly designed to go into phones and the same core is copied unchanged into Apple Silicon CPUs - just with a bit higher clock since it can have a little higher power budget?
Click to expand...
M3 increased L1 cache latency to allow for higher clocks.
 
Kepler_L2 said:
M3 increased L1 cache latency to allow for higher clocks.
Click to expand...
The biggest question mark is why didn’t Apple give new codenames for the M3/A17 CPUs cores. They use the codenames as A16.

Anyhow, Apple clocking their cores higher is needed to compete in desktop. This is where AMD and Intel have huge lead.
 
poke01 said:
Anyhow, Apple clocking their cores higher is needed to compete in desktop. This is where AMD and Intel have huge lead.
Click to expand...
Why does it matter? If Apple is able to have higher IPC than AMD/Intel, it makes up for the clock speed disadvantage.
 
The AMD playbook should be to release Zen 5 by June at the latest. That would give AMD the performance crown across all categories for 4-6 months. After Arrowlake releases, AMD should release a Zen 5 refresh on TSMC N3P. They could have a 45w 6C/12T and a 8C/16T cpu as well as a bunch of 65w/95w TDP SKU's. I am thinking Feb/March 2025 for TSMC N3P silicon. A 16C/32T Zen 5 CPU with a 95w TDP would be brutal for Intel no matter how crazy Arrowlake performance could be. People forget that Intel will be on true 5nm silicon with Arrowlake. This means Intel will have a huge efficiency gain over 10nm. The efficiency of Zen CPU's on TSMC has been their strongest point since moving to TSMC for Zen 2.
 
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