Zen 2 APUs/"Renoir" discussion thread

[Tup3x]

I am still curious as to why anyone needs AI enhancements in iGPUs, phone SoCs, and the like. What's the play here? Run massive AI learning clusters with these things?

Image segmentation for camera etc. on phones.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Image segmentation for camera etc. on phones.

Hmm. Seems misleading but I guess if they're using machine learning to accomplish that feat then great.

 

[soresu]

I am still curious as to why anyone needs AI enhancements in iGPUs, phone SoCs, and the like. What's the play here? Run massive AI learning clusters with these things?

AI/ML accelerators in these things are mainly for inference purposes - training most NN's takes considerable time and power (watts and TOPS), whereas inference using a fully trained NN can be extremely efficient even on these relatively small ASIC's.

As for actual use cases, ML can be used for various vision/imaging and audio based tasks (feature/facial recognition, image stabilisation, speech synthesis, voice recognition, handwriting recognition?) - basically anything with identifiable patterns will benefit from it, if the NN can be compressed efficiently enough to run on a small footprint.

One of the Daala/AV1 developers (Xiphmont) recently developed a new audio codec that uses ML for ultra low bandwidth (1.6 kbps), presumably for narrow band only (voice). Link here.

 

[cortexa99]

Though this is an old topic that had no update since last year but I think this topic is still suitable to place some leaks here.

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this guy running 8C Renoir with fclk2100 memory, seems they implied 4000mhz is easy.


emmm ok there is another one in same thread:

(the guy who leak this one said he turned off igfx before testing AIDA64 then result in 49ns)

 

[uzzi38]

I'm sorry what.

Am I reading that right? They hit 49ns?

 

[NostaSeronx]

Take this as rumors for now...

Small Zen2 APU:
Four Zen2 cores
Three Vega CUs or Two RDNA2 Poly-CUs.
6nm(N6-AMD) Refined/Custom process node(weakened up-port of N5A which is the 5nm custom node AMD will be using)

6W TDP/12W Slow PPT/18W Fast PPT is the target for all SKUs.

 

[cortexa99]

I'm sorry what.

Am I reading that right? They hit 49ns?

Maybe that guy's memory kit win silicon lottery. But still it might be a bug of recognize latency of Renoir, cuz Renoir is not fully support by AIDA64 yet...... But OTOH the FCLK is pretty real.

 

[DisEnchantment]

Hmmmm.... does the 2100 MHz fclk applies to the XT series. If yes..

 

[Antey]

Take this as rumors for now...

Small Zen2 APU:
Four Zen2 cores
Three Vega CUs or Two RDNA2 Poly-CUs.
6nm(N6-AMD) Refined/Custom process node(weakened up-port of N5A which is the 5nm custom node AMD will be using)

6W TDP/12W Slow PPT/18W Fast PPT is the target for all SKUs.

that would be banded kestrel (raven ridge 2) 2.0

 

[Kenmitch]

Maybe that guy's memory kit win silicon lottery. But still it might be a bug of recognize latency of Renoir, cuz Renoir is not fully support by AIDA64 yet...... But OTOH the FCLK is pretty real.

With those timings and memory clocks the latency is somewhat believable.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Wow.

 

[AtenRa]

Though this is an old topic that had no update since last year but I think this topic is still suitable to place some leaks here.

Google Translate

View attachment 24190

this guy running 8C Renoir with fclk2100 memory, seems they implied 4000mhz is easy.


emmm ok there is another one in same thread:

(the guy who leak this one said he turned off igfx before testing AIDA64 then result in 49ns)

View attachment 24192

Where does it say FCLK 2100MHz ??

 

[Asterox]

Wow.

Yes, but only if Renoir APU/AM4 will jump into any older AM4 motherboards.

B450 is main target, i use B450 motherboard and aiming at Ryzen 3 4200GE.

BIOSTAR leaks AMD Ryzen 4000G "Renoir" APUs - VideoCardz.com

BIOSTAR has just confirmed Ryzen 4000G series. AMD Ryzen 4000G clock speeds and OPN codes leaked In a surprising leak for the late Friday, Biostar leaked AMD’s upcoming Renoir APU series codenamed Renoir AM4. The series feature Ryzen 4000G and GE processors, which are 65W and 35W respectively...

videocardz.com

 

[dainthomas]

That 4700G cannot come out soon enough.

 

[ttechf]

I too am waiting for the 4700G, but I've heard and read numerous articles that it's now renamed the Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G? It's either that or there will both be the 4700G and Pro 4750G. But the more alarming thing I've heard is that these high end APUs won't be available for regular consumers and more integrated builders and prebuilts. I hope this isn't the case. If anyone can say differently, I'd love to hear it as I don't want to give my hopes up waiting for nothing.

EDIT : Now that I am reading more it seems that there will be PRO and NON Pro versions? But who knows. I just finished reading this article - https://www.wepc.com/news/3dmark-listings-amd-ryzen-pro-4750g-4650g-4350g-apus/

Thanks!

 

[inf64]

Where does it say FCLK 2100MHz ??

It's the NB clock in CPUz Memory tab.

 

[Gideon]

A detailed and useful explanation how FCLK and memory interface works on Renoir by AMD's Robert Hallock:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1278023586117279746

Spoiler: Here is the relevant image only

 

[moinmoin]

That's an interesting automatic balancing between latency and bandwidth. So essentially in effect starting with Renoir AMD is applying Zen 2's fine tuned core frequency algorithm to the different memory domains as well.

The three examples focus on Renoir being an APU, with the iGPU being the bandwidth sensitive example. It will be interesting to see if this tech is still also applied to the next GPU-less Zen 3 CPUs. I'm expecting that to be the case, with the use of e.g. memory bandwidth sensitive AVX instructions making the memory domains switch frequency accordingly.

Such behaviors could be tested on Renoir already, does anybody know of reviews that took a detailed look at that area (considering the shared image is from AMD's reviewer guide, so all reviewers equipped by AMD already know this)?

 

[AtenRa]

It's the NB clock in CPUz Memory tab.

Ahh forgot about that thx.

 

[dark zero]

Sorry if I am late, but I know that Athlon got revived, but AMD has plans to make Sempron or Duron come back? BTW these new chips from AMD makes me think to move to them now.

 

[NostaSeronx]

AMD has plans to make Sempron or Duron come back?

Official answer is no.

Duron and Turion were succeeded by Sempron. Thus, leads to below:

Unofficial answer is Sempron FX/One might potentially be a thing;
sFX => Unlocked PPT (OEM-decided(BGA socket) or User-decided(PGA socket))
sONE => Locked PPT of at most 18W.

However, it won't be Zen but a from-scratch module architecture that scales across GlobalFoundries Advanced FDX nodes (12FDX -> 10FDX -> 7FDX).

 

[Asterox]

Very intresting, but it is kind of expected because of Renoir APU monolithic design.

AMD Ryzen 7 4700GE Memory Benchmarked: Extremely Low Latency Explains Tiny L3 Caches

AMD's 7 nm "Renoir" APU silicon, which features eight "Zen 2" CPU cores, has only a quarter of the L3 cache of the 8-core "Zen 2" CCD used in "Matisse," "Rome," and "Castle Peak" processors, with each of its two quad-core compute complexes (CCXs) featuring just 4 MB of it (compared to 16 MB per...

www.techpowerup.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/hkxigg

Hm, 8/16 65W R7 4700G has higher Cinebech R20 score vs R7 3800X.

AMD Ryzen 7 3800X vs. 3700X: What's the Difference?

The latest series of Ryzen CPUs has been out for six weeks and yet only about a week ago were we able to get our hands on...

www.techspot.com

 

[DrMrLordX]

That's interesting. Wonder if the 4700G got anywhere near 88W during that CBR20 run?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Wow, 4700GE @ 35W TDP and still being an 8C/16T with 8CU, really intrigues me, for a DeskMini A300 build. I've been thinking (actually, more than thinking, I purchased a 6U mining server shell from Newegg recently) about separating out my mining activities (building a dedicated 6/8-GPU mining rig), from my daily desktop usage, which could easily be accomplished with one of these new Renoir APUs on a DeskMini.

I could then sell off my three "huge" (*not really) gaming PCs, for appropriate prices, after I remove all storage drives from them. (And remove the GPUs for mining with.)

Edit: The only thing that gives me a bit of pause, is if AMD updates their chipset lineup, with something like an "A500" chipset, that supported PCI-E 4.0 x4 for the NVMe port. Of course, given appropriate firmware, they could probably do that already on their DeskMini A300 line, but would have to be supported by AGESA mods from AMD, I guess.

Anyways, that would be my ultimate "casual" desktop PC, an 8C/16T Renoir, @ 35W TDP, with a PCI-E 4.0 NVMe SSD installed. Just because.

 

[rainy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/hkxigg

Hm, 8/16 65W R7 4700G has higher Cinebech R20 score vs R7 3800X.

It's possible, that Renoir similarly to Raven Ridge include some changes from upcoming gen (in this case Zen 3) despite of using officially Zen 2 architecture?