Zen 2 APUs/"Renoir" discussion thread

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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,740
854
126
That 4700G cannot come out soon enough.
Depending on reviews and price point I might pick one of these up to play around with. I've tested my b-die up to 4333MHz with my 3700x, but the 1:2 divider neuters the performance.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
414
311
106
Well, effectively, it does have performance improvements, just not from the zen 3 desktop products. It's improvements come from being monolithic on an advanced, and now matured, node, having less L3 to chew through power budget, having it's memory controller on die as opposed to on a dedicated IO die with an inferior process, making it use less power and gave lower latency, which makes up for the smaller L3. Since the IMC is now on a new node, it's also likely to have seen its own internal improvements.

I'm not shocked that it's outperforming Matisse products in it's same segment on certain benchmarks and in certain use cases. I also won't be shocked to see Matisse destroy it in certain sustained loads that really tax it in power use and can fit neatly into the l3.
 
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Asterox

Senior member
May 15, 2012
331
323
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Hm, ok but only if this overclocking to 4.7ghz is safe for normal CPU usage.

 
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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,740
854
126
That voltage is in no ways safe.
Have you ever done any crazy overclocking? I've only gone crazy mode on one CPU and that was a $150 2550K I bought to test out a extra motherboard I had laying around. I stopped at 5.6GHz 1.70v's as I was only on custom water. It was winter and I left the rig out in the garage overnight so it was somewhat chilled water at least.Getting the last few MHz out of the chip often requires a significant vcore boost.

I'd be more interested in seeing a power profile than the absolute last MHz outcome. The juice may not be worth the squeeze in the end.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,009
4,962
136
The only chip I beat to death was a Sempron 140. It lived, but it was not quite the same afterwards.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,355
2,187
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With those prices they are DOA for DIY users.

Zero upgrade path worth it from 3200G and 3400G

AMD should start to thinking of making more than a single die for its products.

Desktop APU DIY users are aiming for the iGPU and not for the CPU performance, AMD should have also created a 4C 8T + 12CU APU for both the Desktop and Laptop market.
But nooooo, more cores are always better than what people really need.
 
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rancherlee

Senior member
Jul 9, 2000
706
18
81
With those prices they are DOA for DIY users.

Zero upgrade path worth it from 3200G and 3400G

AMD should start to thinking of making more than a single die for its products.

Desktop APU DIY users are aiming for the iGPU and not for the CPU performance, AMD should have also created a 4C 8T + 12CU APU for both the Desktop and Laptop market.
But nooooo, more cores are always better than what people really need.
I played around with a 2400G for quite awhile and most games I played where held back by the Ram (3200 C14 is the best the chip would run). Especially with the Vega 11 clocked to 1550mhz. Granted there were some games that kept scaling with clock increases but it was at a performance ledge IMO. I think 8cu @ 2100 Vega+ is going to be at that same "ledge" and even with Fast DDR3600/3800 ram a 12cu part would held back. They should offer a lower core count chip with the full 8cu though.
 

Asterox

Senior member
May 15, 2012
331
323
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@AtenRa

Those are the PRO APUs. The non-PRO ones aren't even on that price list. Like the 4700G. When you consider where the 3700x price is, the prices aren't THAT bad.
As far i see, there is no non Pro version of Renoir APU.

"we also confirmed that AMD Ryzen PRO 4000 series has replaced the standard Ryzen 4000 Renoir SKUs. Both PRO & non-PRO variants are virtually the same but AMD has decided to go with PRO series branding officially.
the Ryzen 7 4700G has become the Ryzen 7 PRO 4750G, the Ryzen 5 4400 has become the Ryzen 5 PRO 4650G and the Ryzen 3 4300G has become the Ryzen 3 PRO 4350G. These are the 65W SKUs & 35W 'GE' variants also exist though they will use the same branding as the PRO variants but with GE identifier"

Price performanse ratio, well it is very obvious that R7 3700X is not the winner in this battle.


R7 3700X, 280$

Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G, 290$

I use Athlon 3000G, for example 200mb 1080p video clip video encoding in Handbrake.

- CPU only, about 8 minutes

- CPU+GPU, about 4.30 minutes


A lot of people do not need discrete GPU, but they want or need strong CPU or high performanse CPU.I am not a gamer, and now or in the future for me APU is the only choice.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,355
2,187
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The competition

65W TDP

AMD R3 Pro 4350G , 4C8T, 3.8GHz base and 4.1GHz Boost, VEGA 6 iGPU , 3200 memory , 65W TDP , price $139

Intel Core i3 10100 , 4C8T, 3.6GHz base and 4.3GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $119
Intel Core i3 10300 , 4C8T, 3.7GHz base and 4.4GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $143


AMD R5 Pro 4650G , 6C12T, 3.7GHz base and 4.3GHz Boost, VEGA7 iGPU , 3200 memory , 65W TDP , price $219
Intel Core i5 10400 , 6C12T, 2.9GHz base and 4.3GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $183
Intel Core i5 10500 , 6C12T, 3.1GHz base and 4.5GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $199
Intel Core i5 10600 , 6C12T, 3.3GHz base and 4.8GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $219


AMD R5 Pro 4750G , 8C16T, 3.6GHz base and 4.45GHz Boost, VEGA 8 iGPU , 3200 memory , 65W TDP , price $289
Intel Core i7 10700 , 8C16T, 2.9GHz base and 4.8GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2933 memory , 65W TDP , price $329

35W TDP

AMD R3 Pro 4350GE , 4C8T, 3.5GHz base and 4.1GHz Boost, VEGA 6 iGPU , 3200 memory , 35W TDP , price ?

Intel Core i3 10100T , 4C8T, 3.0GHz base and 3.8GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 35W TDP , price $122
Intel Core i3 10300T , 4C8T, 3.0GHz base and 3.9GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 35W TDP , price $143

AMD R5 Pro 4650GE , 6C12T, 3.3GHz base and 4.25GHz Boost, VEGA7 iGPU , 3200 memory , 35W TDP , price ?
Intel Core i5 10400T , 6C12T, 2.0GHz base and 3.6GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 35W TDP , price $182
Intel Core i5 10500T , 6C12T, 2.3GHz base and 3.8GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 35W TDP , price $192

AMD R5 Pro 4750GE , 8C16T, 3.1GHz base and 4.35GHz Boost, VEGA 8 iGPU , 3200 memory , 35W TDP , price ?
Intel Core i7 10700 , 8C16T, 2.0GHz base and 4.5GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2933 memory , 35W TDP , price $329
 

Asterox

Senior member
May 15, 2012
331
323
136
The competition

65W TDP

AMD R3 Pro 4350G , 4C8T, 3.8GHz base and 4.1GHz Boost, VEGA 6 iGPU , 3200 memory , 65W TDP , price $139

Intel Core i3 10100 , 4C8T, 3.6GHz base and 4.3GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $119
Intel Core i3 10300 , 4C8T, 3.7GHz base and 4.4GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $143


AMD R5 Pro 4650G , 6C12T, 3.7GHz base and 4.3GHz Boost, VEGA7 iGPU , 3200 memory , 65W TDP , price $219
Intel Core i5 10400 , 6C12T, 2.9GHz base and 4.3GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $183
Intel Core i5 10500 , 6C12T, 3.1GHz base and 4.5GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $199
Intel Core i5 10600 , 6C12T, 3.3GHz base and 4.8GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 65W TDP , price $219


AMD R5 Pro 4750G , 8C16T, 3.6GHz base and 4.45GHz Boost, VEGA 8 iGPU , 3200 memory , 65W TDP , price $289
Intel Core i7 10700 , 8C16T, 2.9GHz base and 4.8GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2933 memory , 65W TDP , price $329

35W TDP

AMD R3 Pro 4350GE , 4C8T, 3.5GHz base and 4.1GHz Boost, VEGA 6 iGPU , 3200 memory , 35W TDP , price ?

Intel Core i3 10100T , 4C8T, 3.0GHz base and 3.8GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 35W TDP , price $122
Intel Core i3 10300T , 4C8T, 3.0GHz base and 3.9GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 35W TDP , price $143

AMD R5 Pro 4650GE , 6C12T, 3.3GHz base and 4.25GHz Boost, VEGA7 iGPU , 3200 memory , 35W TDP , price ?
Intel Core i5 10400T , 6C12T, 2.0GHz base and 3.6GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 35W TDP , price $182
Intel Core i5 10500T , 6C12T, 2.3GHz base and 3.8GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2666 memory , 35W TDP , price $192

AMD R5 Pro 4750GE , 8C16T, 3.1GHz base and 4.35GHz Boost, VEGA 8 iGPU , 3200 memory , 35W TDP , price ?
Intel Core i7 10700 , 8C16T, 2.0GHz base and 4.5GHz Boost, HD630 iGPU , 2933 memory , 35W TDP , price $329
Competition in what, Intel competition can be only in CPU performanse.

What about casual gaming, or APU for any HTPC PC usage classic Desktop, or tiny Mini PC.Intel HD 630 iGPU is joke, compared to "Renoir APU only 6 VEGA CU-s".Even 50$ Athlon 3000G+Vega 3 beats Intel HD 630 iGPU in gaming.

Price performance ratio, any Renoir APU will be much beeter buy as 35W APU for similar tiny PC.

 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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Competition in what, Intel competition can be only in CPU performanse.

What about casual gaming, or APU for any HTPC PC usage classic Desktop, or tiny Mini PC.Intel HD 630 iGPU is joke, compared to "Renoir APU only 6 VEGA CU-s".Even 50$ Athlon 3000G+Vega 3 beats Intel HD 630 iGPU in gaming.

Price performance ratio, any Renoir APU will be much beeter buy as 35W APU for similar tiny PC.

Thats why AMD doesnt even care about increasing iGPU performance so much anymore. They matched or even surpassed Intels CPU performance and they command a 50% or higher iGPU performance.

Non the less , those are the competitive SKUs from the two companies.
 
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grant2

Golden Member
May 23, 2001
1,153
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I think I read these APUs will have graphics performance near to 1050 graphics card.

Seems like a great option for the right use case, i.e., moderate graphics power + small factor.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
414
311
106
Thinking that these APUs will get anywhere near a full fat 1050 in performance is a dream for this generation. They have substantially less memory bandwidth and can't support anywhere near the texture quality that a 1050 can handle at decent frame rates. They should be more than capable of handling mid-quality 1080p settings at playable frame rates on most titles. If you really want to push things to their best capability, you can set the game to 720p, run all the quality sliders to max, and let radeon image scaling and image sharpening do their thing to scale the output to 1080p. On the 4700u, that can get you in the 50-60fps range on most games while still looking quite good. With a full 8CU part, better cooling, and overclocked ram, you can probably get a solid 60fps.
 
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grant2

Golden Member
May 23, 2001
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I guess benchmarks will eventually show us what's what.

Don't understand what a fat-1050 is vs. a regular-1050

I'm not a graphics card guy, but I do understand that the system memory will always be a bottleneck on these APUs, it was my understanding that's why the # of cores was reduced & clock speed increased: because more cores take expensive die space & heat for rapidly diminishing returns.

For the same reason, I do not expect a linear 12.5% performance drop in graphics going from 8->7vega cores. It gives me the idea that the benefit of the 4750g vs the other models is almost entirely for the higher CPU performance, and that the extra vega core is a bit of a token increase.
 

R81Z3N1

Member
Jul 15, 2017
31
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I just hope that Linux support is good out of the gate, having 8 or 6 cores that can drive a 1440p screen would be nice. If these cores are as good as they say they are it will be a very nice machine for the nix folks.

Granted I don't expect to play games at 1440p, but if they can do 1080p, or even 720p with things turned down that would be good. Then in a few years get a dedicated card, enjoy those cores. Heck my gtx1060 6gb card can't even push 1440p without turning things way down.

Like others have stated, this could be the go to choice for anyone who wants an 8 core. With the rumors of an Intel 8 core 12 thread rocket Lake s, makes almost a default buy getting Renoir.

I did see the hardware unboxed video comparing laptop to desktop 8 core looks like desktop Renoir can not come soon enough.

R81Z3N1
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
414
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The 1050 exists in mobile versions with reduced memory bandwidth and fewer execution units. A "full fat" one is the 4GB desktop part with a fully enabled chip at spec. You have to be very precise around here lest someone come along and show that in one particular benchmark, a 4900H Vega 8 unit with lpddr4x 4-4266 equipped part managed to beat a 3GB mobile, low power 1050 and accuse you of lying, etc.

The jump to Vega 8 from Vega 7, by specification, isn't just one extra CU, but is also a ~15% clock speed jump. I assume that they aren't just binning based on failed CUs, but also on achievable stable iGPU clocks. Vega 11 on a 3400g, at spec, is theoretically more powerful than Vega 7 on the 4000 series, yet the 4000 series part will retail for more. For a STB/sff build, anything but the 4750g is a GPU downgrade from the 3400g. Now, I'm not saying that games will be worse on 4650g as it will have a huge CPU advantage and will likely have notably better memory bandwidth available, but, it certainly won't be a clear improvement in many cases.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
6,877
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The GTX 1050 is 50% faster than the Vega 11 in the Ryzen 3000 APU. Renoir desktop only has a 10% compute advantage so it'll need a serious memory and core clock overclocking to hope to catch up to it.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,355
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will the 4C 8T SKU will come from a single CCX like the 3300X or 2x2 like the 3100X ?? anyone knows ??
 

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