Your entire party is a dumpster fire

[UberNeuman]

Their persistence isn't props worthy. At minimum they are masochists. They don't come to this forum to broaden horizons, they come here to vomit their stupidity and ugliness. Conservatism is bullshit to its core. And not a single soul can live up to it because it's nothing but an excuse to keep hate alive AND thriving. They are a target because they should be targets. They are not a race of people they are an ideology that is all about regression, division, suppression and segregation. That is all conservatism is and until it evolves that is all it will ever be.

You're talking to a person that embaces that ideology without the courage to admit it.

 

[Younigue]

You're talking to a person that embaces that ideology without the courage to admit it.

hmm, I wonder why? <--- that's genuine wondering not smartassery.

 

[dank69]

Sigh.....alright I guess you got me. I guess there is only two ways to view politics and that only way is the Democrats and Republicans perspective. There is no compromise. There is no better way.

It's ok man just let it go you won. You're right I didn't offer anything regarding policy or a prospectus for new ideas. The two party system we have is obviously the best for everyone. Now we just need to find candidates who are more middle ground and not so far to the left or right.

For example, what is the middle ground between Trump is or is not a good role model for children?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Dictionary.com showed no results for 'secret wish'.

I found a definition for that based upon some late night skits....it's like when President Trump wishes that Stormy Daniels would've kept quiet about their affair.

 

[Moonbeam]

Why don't we all just cool off for the night and call it good. There's no need to keep baiting each other with demeaning posts.
That's certainly one thing we can all agree on right?

It depends on what you mean by need. If you mean that demeaning is pointless and ineffective and just entrenches blindness further, I would agree it's needless. But if you mean to set a trap to impugn those who seem to express such a need as faulty for feeling it, then I would caution you are intentionally setting yourself for victim mentality.

You have put yourself in a kind of pickle here by claiming a centrist position. I believe that a centrist position of the kind you express here, equating the so called extremism of each side as opposite and equal is actually a common position many people take as a psychological defense against criticism. It has all the moral attributes and optics of a person who wants to be fair. But consider for a moment if that is simply a moral cop out, a way to avoid taking a proper moral stand. Now let's say the liberals have seen though you and understand that you are in fact enabling the moral bankruptcy of the right in its support of Trump. Your enabling will be just as great a threat as Trump is to the nation. You will be seen as a threat, and to a liberal brain the only way you could have become such a threat is by being morally stupid, intentionally blind to the obvious hideousness that Trump represents. This is the liberal fall back position. The realization that people can be as blind as you truly terrifies them, sadly not without reason.

And the terrified are not real good a mercy.

So how are you going to face this if in fact I am right, that centrists via moral cowardliness are enablers. Do you think it's going to be a joy ride to discover you are both lacking moral sense and afraid to see it. You are going to feel persecuted and produce a lot of moral outrage against you. You will be seen as evil and stupid by liberals.

What you will not be seen as is a guiltless machine who had to be the way you are to survive being told you were worthless as a child, but those are the real facts as far as I can see. We cannot accept the any feelings of guilt because we are guilt ridden to capacity over things we were never really guilty of in the first place.

The sad result of this however is that we have been magnetized like moths to burn our wings over and over circling the guilty flame. We unconsciously seek to be put down because it puts in touch with our secret wishes, an aching longing to confess and be forgiven. And the world is perfect for us victims because there's no forgiveness to be found.

 

[kage69]

You have no originality

This is less about me wanting to mimic an idiot with an idiotic view, and more about your lack of comprehension here. I'll have to get back to you on how bothered I am by it. Don't wait up.

If republican behavior being called out for what it is bothers you, take it up with the republicans.

 

[kage69]

I found a definition for that based upon some late night skits....it's like when President Trump wishes that Stormy Daniels would've kept quiet about their affair.

I saw her friend on TV last night, recounting how she wasn't subject to an NDA and how Dump and Stormy called her one night and tried to get her to come over for a 3 way.

Carry that water Jerry Falwell Jr!

 

[Puffnstuff]

I saw her friend on TV last night, recounting how she wasn't subject to an NDA and how Dump and Stormy called her one night and tried to get her to come over for a 3 way.

Carry that water Jerry Falwell Jr!

Onward Pharisee soldiers marching as to war
With the cross of Donald marching against truth and more

...I was going to write out a whole new verse but you get the idea. This apostasy really makes me want to puke and I can't stand to hear from any fake christian religious leaders speak at all.

 

[Jhhnn]

I saw her friend on TV last night, recounting how she wasn't subject to an NDA and how Dump and Stormy called her one night and tried to get her to come over for a 3 way.

Carry that water Jerry Falwell Jr!

I don't put any faith in such accounts. To do so is to fall into the trap of motivated reasoning.

 

[kage69]

I don't put any faith in such accounts. To do so is to fall into the trap of motivated reasoning.

Normally I would agree, but we are talking about a guy who feels entitled to do whatever he wants to pussies, when you're famous they let you, remember? Notably, the woman in question isn't making money off of what is potentially making herself a target for the White House. It smacks of IDGAF, of someone who is likening her efforts to solidarity with #metoo and using her voice to resist what she sees as the dishonesty of men like Trump.

Is it a sure thing, vetted by a court of law? No. But it has a familiar ring of truth to it that I've heard before regarding Trump issues, and those ended up panning out. It's not like this latest assertion flies in the face of reason or what we already know about the guy. He'll pursue married women by his own admission, what's calling an additional porn star to enact one of the more common themes in porn?

Not that I really care what happens between consenting adults, I just enjoy seeing and hearing the morally upright come to the defense of someone like Trump.

 

[Greenman]

Their persistence isn't props worthy. At minimum they are masochists. They don't come to this forum to broaden horizons, they come here to vomit their stupidity and ugliness. Conservatism is bullshit to its core. And not a single soul can live up to it because it's nothing but an excuse to keep hate alive AND thriving. They are a target because they should be targets. They are not a race of people they are an ideology that is all about regression, division, suppression and segregation. That is all conservatism is and until it evolves that is all it will ever be.

It's astounding to me that you don't see any irony in that statement.

 

[Younigue]

It's astounding to me that you don't see any irony in that statement.

You do seem the type to be perpetually confused about appropriate things to be astounded by.

 

[Jhhnn]

Normally I would agree, but we are talking about a guy who feels entitled to do whatever he wants to pussies, when you're famous they let you, remember? Notably, the woman in question isn't making money off of what is potentially making herself a target for the White House. It smacks of IDGAF, of someone who is likening her efforts to solidarity with #metoo and using her voice to resist what she sees as the dishonesty of men like Trump.

Is it a sure thing, vetted by a court of law? No. But it has a familiar ring of truth to it that I've heard before regarding Trump issues, and those ended up panning out. It's not like this latest assertion flies in the face of reason or what we already know about the guy. He'll pursue married women by his own admission, what's calling an additional porn star to enact one of the more common themes in porn?

Not that I really care what happens between consenting adults, I just enjoy seeing and hearing the morally upright come to the defense of someone like Trump.

Trump is a pig? We already knew that. His base not only forgives him but rather envies him in that regard. It's vicarious thrills for them. They're extremely repressed so this story just increases their secret admiration for his exploits.

I mean, if you think sex isn't dirty then you're not doing it right...

 

[Greenman]

You do seem the type to be perpetually confused about appropriate things to be astounded by.

Well, I am an old guy, and grew up in a time when hateful speech wasn't tossed around quite as freely as it is today.

 

[Younigue]

Well, I am an old guy, and grew up in a time when hateful speech wasn't tossed around quite as freely as it is today.

Just the hateful treatment of people who weren't white males?

 

[crashtech]

...Conservatism is bullshit to its core...

I'm okay with you calling open season on Republicans, and/or calling out the daily stupidities of politicians, but your above statement bothers me because it indicates possible lack of knowledge of what comprises conservative philosophies. I would guess that if I could visit you in real life, there would be many things to point out about your daily routine that you live in at least a somewhat conservative fashion. Just one example: Go far enough to the left, and the right to private property disappears. I don't know if that one applies to you, but there are many other related ideas that exist in a continuum, or a blend of philosophies that compete for our hearts and minds.

Even within the Left, there is plenty of room for disagreement, I've seen it here. The point is, conservatism is not a party, it's a set of philosophies that fit together like puzzle pieces with various other philosophies like liberalism, authoritarianism, and libertarianism. A fascinating thing is that I am friends with some people around the block that are pretty far away from me politically, but we live our lives in very similar ways. The only overt differences seem to be what they post on Facebook, and that we make less trash than they do even though they are self-described environmentalists. I think it's because they don't cook, but eat out of boxes and cans mostly. not really a political thing at all, really. I wish I could teach them a few easy recipes, though.

I think others that accuse me of cowardice might be a bit unfair. To get to the point where my take on political philosophy could even be heard is going to take time, because there is not much room on this forum for dissent, at least dissent that would be considered as a serious part of the discussion. Opinions that don't fit the narrative are often mercilessly attacked, and I don't really want that because I have made the AT forum my home base. If it wasn't for some of the other subforums here, I'd be long gone, since my reception in this one has been mostly negative. Maybe not wanting to end up being hated makes me fit the label. I'll leave that to you to decide.

Anyway, I'm not intending to post in this thread anymore, because I'm way off topic, but for the record, I think Trump as a role model for kids is just beyond absurd.

 

[Greenman]

Just the hateful treatment of people who weren't white males?

That wasn't a part of my world. While it defiantly happened, it wasn't something I was regularly exposed to. As a young man, the few times I was exposed to overt racism my father was present. Being a hard headed old Irishman, he shut it down on the spot. Once that was in an office with a dozen or so people present. My father went off on a guy, his exact words were "one more word out of you, you fucking Nazi and I'm going to shove this phone up your ass".
It made an impression on me.

 

[Younigue]

That wasn't a part of my world. While it defiantly happened, it wasn't something I was regularly exposed to. As a young man, the few times I was exposed to overt racism my father was present. Being a hard headed old Irishman, he shut it down on the spot. Once that was in an office with a dozen or so people present. My father went off on a guy, his exact words were "one more word out of you, you fucking Nazi and I'm going to shove this phone up your ass".
It made an impression on me.

but the "freedom" or tolerance of such behavior was more acceptable. I'm glad your experience was what it was but that's not what we were talking about. You're suggesting hate speech is currently rampant. Hate crime (though not referred to in that way back in the day) was rampant when you were a younger person regardless of your personal experiences.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Hate crime (though not referred to in that way back in the day) was rampant when you were a younger person regardless of your personal experiences.

I remember the first time I witnessed forced busing in Philadelphia back in '79. The black students from the West Side were shipped all the way to South Philly's east side to a school, John Bartram, buried in a predominately Italian neighborhood which didn't go over well at all. On most days things were limited to hurling insults and hand gestures but one day it escalated into the local kids stoning the buses with bricks. I don't know if anyone was hurt but the boys in blue showed up to curtail and coral the participants up.

There were gangs of people of all races that hung together including traveling around the city in what would later become wolf pack gangs. I knew a white guy who had a run in with them in the subway while he was by himself and a group of black guys trashed him. I tried to get along with everyone which paid big dividends when trouble was planned as I would get the warning beforehand to adjust myself to avoid it. Hate is just so stupid.

 

[SP33Demon]

Their persistence isn't props worthy. At minimum they are masochists. They don't come to this forum to broaden horizons, they come here to vomit their stupidity and ugliness. Conservatism is bullshit to its core. And not a single soul can live up to it because it's nothing but an excuse to keep hate alive AND thriving. They are a target because they should be targets. They are not a race of people they are an ideology that is all about regression, division, suppression and segregation. That is all conservatism is and until it evolves that is all it will ever be.

1) For me, conservatism is about truth and egalitarians (usually liberals) are finding out the hard way that people value the TRUTH over falsehoods. The fact that we aren't all equal is why it will continue to thrive past many lifetimes, because that is the TRUTH. We aren't all equal and never will be and conservatism isn't trying to make us equal, it rewards good decisions and punishes bad. It economically rewards MERIT above all. Those who make poor decisions in life will usually not be rewarded. Life is tough and you can't always rely on the nanny-state to protect your best interests - this is how we evolved and progressed as a species.

For example, nobody is born into the same (but maybe similar) SES (socioeconomic status). The difference between conservatives and liberals is that most liberals are trying to make everyone equal economically which is utter nonsense and complete disillusionment. Work in = Rewards out. You want to be a lazy loser and not work for what you have, then go kick rocks. You won't be supported by the hard work of people contributing more. That is why conservatism will never go away. Equal work for equal pay (unless you're on disability and cannot work) will always be championed - not equal paycheck for everyone simply for breathing air and being born. This is counterproductive for the progression of technology and evolution of our species. Why do you hate technological progress and evolution?

2) Many of the things that you claim to view conservatism as (regression, division, suppression, segregation) are all tied to your denial of the truth that we are not equal. Men and women are different biologically and physiologically (that's sexist!), as are different races (why are you such a bigot! we are equal!) but nobody wants to admit the decades worth of studies are true out of fear for hurting feelings (e.g. boys are better at math after puberty than girls, certain asian groups are better at math and programming than others, men are better at thinking within the same brain hemisphere vs women better at cross-hemispherical tasks). This leads to even more denial of the truth, and leads to institutions like harvard still thinking it's ok to practice affirmative action and admit people not as qualified to get into their schools (e.g. medical). Is this fair? No, it's a basic denial of the TRUTH and discriminatory based on skin color (not merit) so these institutions can virtue signal to their usually liberal peers that they are "diverse" now - merits be damned. Conservatives want to be judged on merit, not skin color or last name. Admittance based on merit = admitting the truth (some races/sexes may be better in certain fields than others), admittance based skin color and/or sex = denying the truth (these applicants weren't as good based on merit but we gave them a free pass based on their race/sex). See the difference?

3) Funny that you mention segregation, when it's been proven that people will already self segregate based on things like SES, race, age, and income. In short, we are drawn to people more like us. Are you denying this is true? If you really believe that segregation is a mostly environmental construct and not built into our DNA, then you are an enemy of truth and need to read up more on studies like this. There is a mountain of research done in the past 5 years on why people self segregate and obviously this will invariably effect how people treat (and discriminate) against others. Take a look at your local cafeteria, especially with middle and high schools and try to deny that people don't self segregate. No policy will ever create a fully diverse city, just read this study. People cannot and will not do it due to the dynamics of social cohesion - to deny this is to deny truth.
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/

4) If we want to progress as a race, we have to admit our differences and celebrate them, not minimize them. Conservatism admits that we are different and tries to accentuate these differences to where people can succeed at what they are best at. Opponents and deniers of TRUTH cannot accept an unequal society and try to spin it into race issues, or sex issues, or economic issues (unequal pay gap that has been repeatedly debunked), etc. If you look at the data, you will find the truth before blindly accepting spoon-fed talking points of MSM. Research it for yourself and become enlightened - there is still honest research being done but you have to do your homework on things like methods (random double blind etc) and sample sizes and avoid junk science. It's only so long that people can say "well there's a counter study to everything" before mountains of evidence and results are confirmed and replicated and factual.

 

[Puffnstuff]

If we want to progress as a race, we have to admit our differences and celebrate them, not minimize them.

The KKK is an expert at celebrating these differences.

 

[Younigue]

I'm okay with you calling open season on Republicans, and/or calling out the daily stupidities of politicians, but your above statement bothers me because it indicates possible lack of knowledge of what comprises conservative philosophies. I would guess that if I could visit you in real life, there would be many things to point out about your daily routine that you live in at least a somewhat conservative fashion. Just one example: Go far enough to the left, and the right to private property disappears. I don't know if that one applies to you, but there are many other related ideas that exist in a continuum, or a blend of philosophies that compete for our hearts and minds.

Even within the Left, there is plenty of room for disagreement, I've seen it here. The point is, conservatism is not a party, it's a set of philosophies that fit together like puzzle pieces with various other philosophies like liberalism, authoritarianism, and libertarianism. A fascinating thing is that I am friends with some people around the block that are pretty far away from me politically, but we live our lives in very similar ways. The only overt differences seem to be what they post on Facebook, and that we make less trash than they do even though they are self-described environmentalists. I think it's because they don't cook, but eat out of boxes and cans mostly. not really a political thing at all, really. I wish I could teach them a few easy recipes, though.

I think others that accuse me of cowardice might be a bit unfair. To get to the point where my take on political philosophy could even be heard is going to take time, because there is not much room on this forum for dissent, at least dissent that would be considered as a serious part of the discussion. Opinions that don't fit the narrative are often mercilessly attacked, and I don't really want that because I have made the AT forum my home base. If it wasn't for some of the other subforums here, I'd be long gone, since my reception in this one has been mostly negative. Maybe not wanting to end up being hated makes me fit the label. I'll leave that to you to decide.

Anyway, I'm not intending to post in this thread anymore, because I'm way off topic, but for the record, I think Trump as a role model for kids is just beyond absurd.

I suppose I should have spoken more clearly. It is a certain type(?) of Conservatism that I am talking about. It's prevalent in the white house and among "Christians". Of course I have some conservative views, I want my long haired nephews to cut their ridiculously long hair but that's just because I think they'd look more handsome with short hair not because of any impression they're giving with their long hair.

That being said, I'm a pretty open minded person. It's been an unpleasant reality check to become aware of my intolerance toward Trumpublicans. Yes, I am thoroughly disgusted by the current Administration BUT I am able to differentiate between (less so these days) Republicans and batshit crazy Trumpublicans. I don't walk this earth thinking every one has to agree with me. How Very Boring! And I absolutely believe it is possible to have meaningful conversations with right leaning people. I do NOT think it is possible to do so with a Trumpublican... OR the version of Conservative that is just sick in their heart, minds and souls. I don't think I'm capable of explaining any better. The sampling of what I'm talking about is appalling by those who frequent this forum as well as other forums I engage people.

 

[SP33Demon]

The KKK is an expert at celebrating these differences.

So is the black lives matter group. Your point?

 

[Jhhnn]

So is the black lives matter group. Your point?

Yeh, give us the lame whataboutism.

 

[kage69]

Trump is a pig? We already knew that. His base not only forgives him but rather envies him in that regard. It's vicarious thrills for them. They're extremely repressed so this story just increases their secret admiration for his exploits.

I mean, if you think sex isn't dirty then you're not doing it right...

The thing is we're not just talking sex, we're talking the kind of sex way outside the realm of acceptable as per a huge swath of his supporters, i.e. evangelicals and other socially authoritarian flavors of American protestantism. I'm not addressing my comments to Dump supporters who don't care for organized religion and the values promoted by it, I'm specifically addressing people like Falwell who do.

I'm less concerned with giving them psych evals than I am with pointing out why hypocrisy undermines credibility. It tends to cut down on the preaching, probably the reason it's so popular. Must be working because 'regaining public trust' is now a topic for that crowd if you listen to their various radio stations (I do a lot of driving). Some of them get it.