Could be, but then again the fact that automobile insurance is required by law in most places is completely obsurd in and of itself.... and should probably be taken to another thread.
lol
mugs
Lifer
- Apr 29, 2003
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Some people have ethics that do not need to be dictated to them by the government. Sure, there should be more restrictions, but it doesn't change the fact that people who take advantage of government assistance that they don't need are scum. You seem to be excusing them because it's human nature to take advantage of a system that lets them take advantage of it. It's not human nature, it's a lack of ethics.
You also seem to believe that people who take advantage of the system are doing it legally, when many of them are not.
Umm....
Hello? I'm the one advocating change. Nobody in their right mind would say it's OK for cheats to.. cheat.
It has nothing to do with ethics, IMO. Ethics and morals are subjective. Why is it unethical to take a handout when you meet their requirements? I do not understand that at all. If you believe the people don't deserve your money, then you need to change the rules so they don't get it. It is as simple as that.
Where's Amused? I'd like to know what he thinks about what I'm saying...
This thread confuses me. Its "your" money being handed out, and you are in charge of electing the people that make your rules. You have elected to make it so easy to get government assistance, that it is widely abused.
You dislike this. The next step is to change the rules, not spew some BS about ethics. You can't tell people how they should run their lives based on your point of view.
In my opinion, it is not unethical to accept a government handout when the government says that you qualify, regardless of how much you make and what you have.
Cheaters are a completely different story.
Do any of you realize how many wealthy people and corporations recieve government grants? The process really isn't any different. You apply.. they review your application, and if you meet the requirements.. you get a grant! Amazing.
The people that are into grants would argue that you're missing out by not accepting free money from the government.
The thing is, most grant programs seem to be 100x more strict than our Welfare program. This is a problem!
My mother was on welfare for a year, with 2 kids, after my father left. She was trying to get a job that entirew year, and ended up getting a low paying job at 7-eleven. This job payed less than her welfare checks that she was getting. Yeah are there people who abuse the system? of course, does that mean that all of them are liars and thiefs? no. Maybe most of you should actually meet and talk to people who are on welfare before passing the judgement you all seem so inclined to do.
mugs
Lifer
- Apr 29, 2003
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I know you're advocating changing the rules and that's great, but you're also excusing people for taking advantage of it when they don't need it.
It's unethical, because government assistance programs are set up to help people who are in need. If you are not in need and you take it anyway, whether you meet the technical requirements or not, that is unethical in my opinion. You are free to disagree, as ethics are not absolute, but I have little respect for someone who would excuse that kind of behavior.
I'd love to hear Amused's opinion as well.
That's what I'm saying though.
Who are YOU(or me, or anybody but the persons in charge of the program) to decide what is "in need" and what is not? It may be unethical in your opinion, but it clearly is not unethical in the governments opinion, or the rules would not be so lax. Right?
See my extensive edit, heh.. Hopefully I explained myself a little more.
I have a real problem with this. You are clearly not understanding me!
I am NOT excusing any behavior. I am NOT saying it's OK for people to cheat.
The government has decided who is "in need" and who is not. That is what the program rules are based on. If there are people abusing the program that are NOT in need, then the rules need to be changed.
I still don't understand how you can blame this on the people. Remember that i'm not counting cheats here, they obviously do not belong.
The definition of "In need" is going to be wildly different for each individual............
I hate to keep posting new messages, but I also hate it when people quote before reading edits.. lol
Again, I will ask you and other people in this thread..
Do you realize how many wealthy individuals and corporations recieve government grants? Are they "in need"? Yes, but only from their point of view. Which is really the key, because thats the way everyone looks at things, obviously.
If the multi billion dollar corporation can get a 200 million dollar grant for something, you better bet your ass they will. Do they need it from our point of view? No.
Did they take advantage of the system by following the rules? NO!
However, IF there are people that are clearly taking advantage or cheating, that is a sign that the rules need to be changed.
Wow.. I feel like I have been repeating myself over and over for the last half an hour.
Again, I will ask you and other people in this thread..
Do you realize how many wealthy individuals and corporations recieve government grants? Are they "in need"? Yes, but only from their point of view. Which is really the key, because thats the way everyone looks at things, obviously.
If the multi billion dollar corporation can get a 200 million dollar grant for something, you better bet your ass they will. Do they need it from our point of view? No.
Did they take advantage of the system by following the rules? NO!
However, IF there are people that are clearly taking advantage or cheating, that is a sign that the rules need to be changed.
Wow.. I feel like I have been repeating myself over and over for the last half an hour.
All you people who tell stories about rich people using food stamps are forgetting one thing: really poor addicts will sell food stamps in order to get money for their next fix. Granted, these people are taking advantage of the system, but don't assume that _they_ are on welfare.
Are you serious?
How couldn't more welfare users cause taxes to go up? Taxes pay for welfare. More welfare= more taxes. Where do you think the money comes from?
I understand this, but that doesen't mean that is how it works.
Why would we allow the rules to be so lax while at the same time allowing our taxes to increase because of it? It doesen't make any sense.
It makes more sense that the rules are lax because the budget exceeds the use.
Gibson486
Lifer
- Aug 9, 2000
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yeah, that is how it works......I used to live in Lowell, Ma, which is welfare city. When we began increasing the amount that people get in welfare and food stamps, guess what went up.....
That said, anyone who is not outraged by a person on welfare buying a brand new $16k car has some issues....
Huh? The purpose of Welfare is to promote economic and social development.
What on Earth do you mean that the purpose of the grant was likely "not to alleviate financial need"?
I'd say needing 200 million dollars for something is a financial need.
And you are wrong. The person buying a 5,000$ paintjob IS promoting economic development; they are supporting their local paint shops. Silly, but its true.
That is incorrect.
Haven't you been watching your infomercials? lol...
There are grants, both government and private, for EVERYTHING. All you have to do is apply(and qualify).
You can get grants to fix your car, pay your rent, buy a house, fix up property, start a business, expand your business, etc, etc
Wow, I sound like the guy with all the questionmarks all over him. But it's true.
mugs
Lifer
- Apr 29, 2003
- 48,920
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We agree that there are people who collect welfare who realistically should not be collecting it, right? You seem to believe that, because you say that the rules should be changed to prevent it.
The difference is, you say you can't blame them because the government says they're elligble (therefore the government is to blame), I say both the recipient and the government are at fault. The government for being wasteful with tax revenues, and the recipients for taking money to fulfill their WANTS rather than their NEEDS at the expense of the rest of the taxpayers.
I have no problem with welfare, but I cannot respect a person who uses it to supplement their already sufficient income.
The difference is, you say you can't blame them because the government says they're elligble (therefore the government is to blame), I say both the recipient and the government are at fault. The government for being wasteful with tax revenues, and the recipients for taking money to fulfill their WANTS rather than their NEEDS at the expense of the rest of the taxpayers.
I have no problem with welfare, but I cannot respect a person who uses it to supplement their already sufficient income.
That's the thing. It's actually HARD to get grants and the qualification process can be grusome.
That's also the way it should be with Welfare.
That's also the way it should be with Welfare.
meh, I'd like to see a massive swath of welfare recipiants just die and help slow their class from growning
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