X-Men: Days of Future Past

[smackababy]

Another thing is that spiderman, fantastic four, and others aren't "mutants" at all. They were normal humans that were transformed to be super through extraordinary circumstances. Which makes them easier to relate to from a human standpoint that something born completely "alien" almost in nature. Some like Iron man are still normal human. If you don't count being extremely rich, smart, and having a kick ass super suit. Also, they tend to try to reduce collateral damage as well as typically only go after "petty" criminals or those without as much destructive power.

The X-Men don't really do a lot of common good. They aren't out on the streets fighting crime, like say Spider-man, and they aren't particularly forward about their contributions to mankind. And, the Avengers doesn't have someone "representing" their "species" as a whole going on about how humans are inferior and should be eradicated.

 

[HumblePie]

The X-Men don't really do a lot of common good. They aren't out on the streets fighting crime, like say Spider-man, and they aren't particularly forward about their contributions to mankind. And, the Avengers doesn't have someone "representing" their "species" as a whole going on about how humans are inferior and should be eradicated.

True, they basically run a school for other mutants and try to combat the massive destruction potential bad mutants may do or stop human attempts at eradicating mutant kind. That's their whole schtick for the most part. There is a bit of winning "hearts and minds" campaigns that Xavier does with some other students, but not really the X-Men. There is a reason this is Wovlerines most quoted motto in the comics.

"I'm the best at what I do, but what I do isn't very nice."

Which they've used that quote in the previous movie already.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Screw it I'm over spoiler tags.







Do you really think Xavier would mind control people just because it suited him?

THANK YOU. Was getting annoyed seeing every other post as a black text box.

If anyone wants to read this thread for reviews, they know there will be spoilers.

 

[KMFJD]

When the mutants all got together to send Wolverine back in time, didn't Kitty or Bishop say that they are always found within x amount of time?

 

[Ancalagon44]

It had a pretty clear resolution to your question when Trask was locked up (as the newspaper showed in the movie). Without Trask, the sentinel project = fucked.

It carried on with him dead, didn't it? Why would prison be worse for the sentinel program?

Again, as for the jet, the original XJet was created with work from Hank, who was flying the plane in the movie. What they were flying in 1973 was not the X-Jet, but it was a private plane owned by Prof X and worked on by Hank. They didn't go into capabilities of speed, but I would hazard to guess it was faster than your average private jet. If you can suspend disbelief about there being mutants that can read minds, have claws, and shoot lazer beams from their eyes, why the hell are you so hung up on them using a super sonic private jet in the movie when they clearly showed it FFS? I think you are being obtuse on purpose and have an agenda at this point against the movie or just trolling. Everything you couldn't understand or you thought was stupid has been explained out perfectly clear thus far. Arguing over shit like how fast their jet may have been in 1973 to do everything in a couple of days is stupid.

As for Professor X and using mind crontrol, he does and doesn't. He doesn't so much as use forceful mind "control" as instead uses mind "persuasion" on others. It's his ethical difference. He pushes people in a direction they may be less likely to take without that push, but it's a direction they may have taken on their own with another form of harder persuasion. He only uses direct controls in fights or emergency situations. Which he does use if needed. Don't be fooled by his power. He can shut down anyone and make them into anything he wants them. He could make anyone on the planet think they are pink fluffy bunnies for the rest of their lives (assuming they have no telepathic protection) if he really wanted to. With cerebro, he could do it to every human on the planet all at once even. This is why Professor X leads the X-Men and is one of the most powerful mutants on the planet as he is the most powerful telepath on Earth in the Marvel Universe.

I'm really not trolling and I'm really not stupid. I saw it with a few friends, and all of us agreed that it made no sense that Mystique's actions stopped the calamity.

They showed a super sonic jet in the future, not in the past. In the past, it was a regular private jet. Yes, it matters, because the entire premise of the movie rests upon the idea that things are happening simultaneously. But that doesn't hold up when you look at how long it would take to get the task done. Nor would it hold up when you consider that the timeline would be altered even if Wolverine delivered his message and went back. Maybe they would fail without Wolverine's help, maybe they would not. But I find the idea of Kitty needing to keep her concentration for that long absurd.

But still the bigger problem for me is the whole idea of Mystique somehow saving the day by changing her mind about killing the president. That is a load of crap.

Yes, the sentinel program may fail. Maybe some part of Trasks work is discredited, but not all of it. Consider this:
Humans and mutants alike both think in terms of us vs them.
Nixon and his cabinet would be thinking like that, and would not be included to trust Xavier, especially if they know he is a mutant.
They would be looking for SOMETHING to protect them against the mutant threat, and would undoubtedly use Trasks work as a base. Maybe you would end up with something worse than Sentinels? Just because Trasks work is discredited, does not mean that the idea of using violence to control mutants would die. Nor does it mean that the XMen would be guaranteed to triumph.

Magneto's actions in proving how dangerous mutants were would make things far worse for them, no matter what Xavier would like to do, and no matter if Trask is discredited. I don't know how you can't see this, and why you keep ignoring my real world examples.

Think about the cold war. Let's imagine that Jimmy Carter was campaigning for peace with the USSR, and suddenly the USSR threatens the USA somehow. Maybe the Cuban Missile Crisis #2. Do you think it would change his mind about the Ruskies? Or his Cabinet?

The point is:
Anti mutant sentiment would be way stronger despite what mystique said
With hate that strong, and trask having done so much work already, someone would find a way to continue his work.

 

[HumblePie]

They showed a private jet of the past. You have no idea if it was super sonic or not or what work was done to it for speed. The Concorde looks like a regular private jet with a tipped down nose as well. Point is, they were using a fast private jet to get around. They stated it happens in real time in the movie. That the past time and present time flow together since all time happens at the same time with the theory of time travel they were going off of in that movie.

Mystique saved the day by removing Magneto's helm. Nothing else would have stopped him. By stopping him, Xavier has his powers back and can whatever he needs to make the president and others view Trask as a criminal instead of a resource. It's not that hard to figure out. Her actions changed NO ONE'S mind at all. Get that out of your head. Her actions were to stop Magneto and not shoot the president or Trask on live TV so as the whole world isn't completely tipped into thinking mutants are just indiscriminate killers.

Anti mutant sentiment is going to be strong. That was NOT the point. The point was to stop the Sentinels. Nothing more and nothing less. The ending was to achieve a goal, not have a happy ending. I have no idea why you think the ending of the movie was a good happy one. If it was, there would be no need for the X-Men to exist at all.

 

[Ancalagon44]

So tell me why nobody would carry on his work but just make it more dangerous?

 

[Skel]

It carried on with him dead, didn't it? Why would prison be worse for the sentinel program?



I'm really not trolling and I'm really not stupid. I saw it with a few friends, and all of us agreed that it made no sense that Mystique's actions stopped the calamity.

They showed a super sonic jet in the future, not in the past. In the past, it was a regular private jet. Yes, it matters, because the entire premise of the movie rests upon the idea that things are happening simultaneously. But that doesn't hold up when you look at how long it would take to get the task done. Nor would it hold up when you consider that the timeline would be altered even if Wolverine delivered his message and went back. Maybe they would fail without Wolverine's help, maybe they would not. But I find the idea of Kitty needing to keep her concentration for that long absurd.

But still the bigger problem for me is the whole idea of Mystique somehow saving the day by changing her mind about killing the president. That is a load of crap.

Yes, the sentinel program may fail. Maybe some part of Trasks work is discredited, but not all of it. Consider this:
Humans and mutants alike both think in terms of us vs them.
Nixon and his cabinet would be thinking like that, and would not be included to trust Xavier, especially if they know he is a mutant.
They would be looking for SOMETHING to protect them against the mutant threat, and would undoubtedly use Trasks work as a base. Maybe you would end up with something worse than Sentinels? Just because Trasks work is discredited, does not mean that the idea of using violence to control mutants would die. Nor does it mean that the XMen would be guaranteed to triumph.

Magneto's actions in proving how dangerous mutants were would make things far worse for them, no matter what Xavier would like to do, and no matter if Trask is discredited. I don't know how you can't see this, and why you keep ignoring my real world examples.

Think about the cold war. Let's imagine that Jimmy Carter was campaigning for peace with the USSR, and suddenly the USSR threatens the USA somehow. Maybe the Cuban Missile Crisis #2. Do you think it would change his mind about the Ruskies? Or his Cabinet?

The point is:
Anti mutant sentiment would be way stronger despite what mystique said
With hate that strong, and trask having done so much work already, someone would find a way to continue his work.

This is what killed the movie for me, logic and a well thought out story was thrown out for what looked cool, and what would fit. I've been spoiled with well thought out stories, now when something this poorly thought out comes around I can't give it a pass no matter how hard I try.

They showed a private jet of the past. You have no idea if it was super sonic or not or what work was done to it for speed. The Concorde looks like a regular private jet with a tipped down nose as well. Point is, they were using a fast private jet to get around. They stated it happens in real time in the movie. That the past time and present time flow together since all time happens at the same time with the theory of time travel they were going off of in that movie.

Mystique saved the day by removing Magneto's helm. Nothing else would have stopped him. By stopping him, Xavier has his powers back and can whatever he needs to make the president and others view Trask as a criminal instead of a resource. It's not that hard to figure out. Her actions changed NO ONE'S mind at all. Get that out of your head. Her actions were to stop Magneto and not shoot the president or Trask on live TV so as the whole world isn't completely tipped into thinking mutants are just indiscriminate killers.

Anti mutant sentiment is going to be strong. That was NOT the point. The point was to stop the Sentinels. Nothing more and nothing less. The ending was to achieve a goal, not have a happy ending. I have no idea why you think the ending of the movie was a good happy one. If it was, there would be no need for the X-Men to exist at all.

I can't speak to the plane, but I'd buy that the X-jet was super uber fast. It's kinda their thing. Claremont gave them a blackbird that another mutant enhanced, so Beast doing it here works.. I am pretty sure though that Mystique not killing Trask is what tipped everything. The movie kept beating that stupid idea into the ground, so when she dropped the gun after shooting Mags it should have ended. I'm sure they didn't show the future at that point because it would have killed the scene. I'm not sure where you got the idea that just because Mags didn't have his super helmet that meant that somehow Sentinels wouldn't be made anymore. I concede that I may have missed something major, but Xavier using his power to make Trask look evil would go against everything the X-Men are supposed to stand for, and would kill the movie. If they wanted to have Xavier do that, there wasn't any point to anything as he could have done it anytime. It sounds like you're attempting to make the movie work in spite of itself, which as I really did want it to work, I feel you. I tried that approach too.

 

[Skel]

So tell me why nobody would carry on his work but just make it more dangerous?

That's really simple, it really all boils down to.... HEY LOOK EVERYONE IT'S JEAN AND SCOTT ALIVE!!!!! YAY TEAM!

 

[KMFJD]

I doubt Kitty Pride was phasing Wolverine back in time for days, no way she would be able to exert that much energy and concentration for that long

 

[gorcorps]

This movie has people that shoot lasers out of their eyeballs and some of you are fixated on how fast their jet can fly. That's weird

 

[SP33Demon]

So tell me why nobody would carry on his work but just make it more dangerous?

You're just repeating the same things over and over again. Reiterated earlier in the thread, Trask Industries doesn't have major government funding anymore to pay its scientists which is why Bolivar Trask was resorting to foreign illegal funding for the Sentinels. They could barely afford to turn the stupid robots on. In the real world, nothing happens without big contract $$$$$$$. The program is dead, get over it.

 

[SP33Demon]

This is what killed the movie for me, logic and a well thought out story was thrown out for what looked cool, and what would fit. I've been spoiled with well thought out stories, now when something this poorly thought out comes around I can't give it a pass no matter how hard I try.



I can't speak to the plane, but I'd buy that the X-jet was super uber fast. It's kinda their thing. Claremont gave them a blackbird that another mutant enhanced, so Beast doing it here works.. I am pretty sure though that Mystique not killing Trask is what tipped everything. The movie kept beating that stupid idea into the ground, so when she dropped the gun after shooting Mags it should have ended. I'm sure they didn't show the future at that point because it would have killed the scene. I'm not sure where you got the idea that just because Mags didn't have his super helmet that meant that somehow Sentinels wouldn't be made anymore. I concede that I may have missed something major, but Xavier using his power to make Trask look evil would go against everything the X-Men are supposed to stand for, and would kill the movie. If they wanted to have Xavier do that, there wasn't any point to anything as he could have done it anytime. It sounds like you're attempting to make the movie work in spite of itself, which as I really did want it to work, I feel you. I tried that approach too.

Yes, you missed something major -

1) so Trask went to jail for no reason? Xavier didn't have to use his powers (even though he would have in the comics btw, see Post 124), Trask hung himself by committing treason (foreign funding) and that's why his program is shut down and will never receive another penny from the U.S. government.
2) Why the fuck would the U.S. government have faith in and continue a program that Magneto took over and made a mockery of on live TV? Yes, humans are still scared but faith in the Sentinels is not there anymore, via the above points 1 and 2. They are going to have to put their faith in something else, like S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Yes, you missed something major -

1) so Trask went to jail for no reason? Xavier didn't have to use his powers (even though he would have in the comics btw, see Post 124), Trask hung himself by committing treason (foreign funding) and that's why his program is shut down and will never receive another penny from the U.S. government.
2) Why the fuck would the U.S. government have faith in and continue a program that Magneto took over and made a mockery of on live TV? Yes, humans are still scared but faith in the Sentinels is not there anymore, via the above points 1 and 2. They are going to have to put their faith in something else, like S.H.I.E.L.D.

Do you really think Trask is the only person who would be capable of developing some advanced anti mutant technology?

 

[HumblePie]

Do you really think Trask is the only person who would be capable of developing some advanced anti mutant technology?

No, but he was the one and his underlings that started the Sentinel program that would lead to invincible Sentinels. The movie really had several goals.

1) Awaken Charles to start using his powers sooner. Charles not reading minds is not seeing the power plays humans may make towards mutant kind.

2) Bust out Magneto. By doing so, Magneto is released a lot sooner than in the previous timeline. Magneto will do anything to protect the "whole" of mutant kind.

Those two goals put two powerful mutants out as guardians to mutant kind far earlier than they were in the previous timeline. Still there were other goals.

3) Keep Mystique out of Trask's hands or those like him which would use her adaptive power to enhance the Sentinels or something like it.

4) Stop the Sentinel program from reaching the point of making invincible Sentinels.

The best way to achieve number 4 is to make the world and it's various leaders not see the Sentinel program as a viable resolution to dealing with mutants. Killing Trask doesn't stop the Sentinel program as it just makes the leader find other geniuses to take up where Trask leaves off. Magnetos plan of just kill all the current world leaders and possibly anyone smart enough against mutant kind to take over. Still his way wouldn't be the easier nor best way. Downright evil way as well. But he likes to get his hands dirty.

So the best option is to make the world and it's leaders see the Sentinel program as something that can't possibly work. That despite the assurances of Trask and his company, those Sentinels could be used as weapons against humanity instead. The way to achieve that fourth goal isn't to dissuade humans of the dangers of mutants. It was to remove any faith in the Sentinel program.

Which would push humans into a different kind of search for protection. That other search and its results couldn't have been any worse than invincible Sentinels that manage to kill everything.

 

[HumblePie]

This is what killed the movie for me, logic and a well thought out story was thrown out for what looked cool, and what would fit. I've been spoiled with well thought out stories, now when something this poorly thought out comes around I can't give it a pass no matter how hard I try.



I can't speak to the plane, but I'd buy that the X-jet was super uber fast. It's kinda their thing. Claremont gave them a blackbird that another mutant enhanced, so Beast doing it here works.. I am pretty sure though that Mystique not killing Trask is what tipped everything. The movie kept beating that stupid idea into the ground, so when she dropped the gun after shooting Mags it should have ended. I'm sure they didn't show the future at that point because it would have killed the scene. I'm not sure where you got the idea that just because Mags didn't have his super helmet that meant that somehow Sentinels wouldn't be made anymore. I concede that I may have missed something major, but Xavier using his power to make Trask look evil would go against everything the X-Men are supposed to stand for, and would kill the movie. If they wanted to have Xavier do that, there wasn't any point to anything as he could have done it anytime. It sounds like you're attempting to make the movie work in spite of itself, which as I really did want it to work, I feel you. I tried that approach too.

I pointed out that Xavier, as you mentioned, doesn't usually like to force people with his mental powers unless he must. But he has no problem "persuading" people into action that was already a possible action they may take. Xavier has no qualms about reading minds for info that he seeks either. It would be trivial for Xavier to read Trask's mind to see what criminal activities Trask has been doing. As such, he could use that information to easy implicate Trask and his company. All without violating his personal code of ethics for use of his power.

 

[Skel]

Yes, you missed something major -

1) so Trask went to jail for no reason? Xavier didn't have to use his powers (even though he would have in the comics btw, see Post 124), Trask hung himself by committing treason (foreign funding) and that's why his program is shut down and will never receive another penny from the U.S. government.
2) Why the fuck would the U.S. government have faith in and continue a program that Magneto took over and made a mockery of on live TV? Yes, humans are still scared but faith in the Sentinels is not there anymore, via the above points 1 and 2. They are going to have to put their faith in something else, like S.H.I.E.L.D.

I seriously don't recall ANYTHING in the movie that said that Xavier had anything to do with Trask's foreign funding being discovered. I really think that giving him credit for that is really reaching. People get discovered for crap like that, and he was breaking the law. While this post isn't saying Prof X did it, I'm seeing a bunch like the next one that says he did. I stand by my post now that people are attempting to fix the movie in spite of itself.

I pointed out that Xavier, as you mentioned, doesn't usually like to force people with his mental powers unless he must. But he has no problem "persuading" people into action that was already a possible action they may take. Xavier has no qualms about reading minds for info that he seeks either. It would be trivial for Xavier to read Trask's mind to see what criminal activities Trask has been doing. As such, he could use that information to easy implicate Trask and his company. All without violating his personal code of ethics for use of his power.

My point here. There wasn't anything in the movie to make this leap. Trask was attempting to play all countries to wipe the mutants out. Him offering the Sentinels to the Vietnamese right after we conceded defeat would have been enough to have him locked up. It was just a lazy way, though one of the better thought out parts (not sure how that happened) to make sure no one asked why Trask didn't keep going. He took care of himself, no X required. If I'm wrong, which is possible, please remind me where in the movie they said, or even hinted that he did that. The only real thing I remember was the newspaper that tied Trask's storyline up. I don't think anyone even mentioned him once they packed up and left the White House Superdome.

 

[lupi]

Couple points about end of the movie;

They showed the Sentinels can be just as bad to humans as to mutants.

Mutants were shown to "save humanity".

And the article with the photo mentioned the arrest for espionage/selling secrets.

 

[Phoenix86]

Have a real hard time with the ending, is this basic arc of mutants dying (2&3) to be brought back through this time travel story arc in the comics? I guess what I really want to know is, is this plot device used to bring back characters necessary for a later arc?

Simple yes/no as I don't want to spoil future movie plots.

 

[HumblePie]

I seriously don't recall ANYTHING in the movie that said that Xavier had anything to do with Trask's foreign funding being discovered. I really think that giving him credit for that is really reaching. People get discovered for crap like that, and he was breaking the law. While this post isn't saying Prof X did it, I'm seeing a bunch like the next one that says he did. I stand by my post now that people are attempting to fix the movie in spite of itself.



My point here. There wasn't anything in the movie to make this leap. Trask was attempting to play all countries to wipe the mutants out. Him offering the Sentinels to the Vietnamese right after we conceded defeat would have been enough to have him locked up. It was just a lazy way, though one of the better thought out parts (not sure how that happened) to make sure no one asked why Trask didn't keep going. He took care of himself, no X required. If I'm wrong, which is possible, please remind me where in the movie they said, or even hinted that he did that. The only real thing I remember was the newspaper that tied Trask's storyline up. I don't think anyone even mentioned him once they packed up and left the White House Superdome.

Uh

1) Xavier caught him in a secret meeting with a bunch of Vietnamese officials, of whom America just ended a war with, in Paris trying to sell Sentinel program information to.

2) Why wouldn't Xavier do this?

This is where a bit of fan knowledge about Xavier and the characters kicks in, but it is seriously not that hard to figure out. Does the movie have to do an LotR ending and spell everything out at the end for you in tying of loose ends perfectly for your self indulgence? Use a bit of imagination and form your own plausibilities. Especially when the movie was about getting Xavier to use his powers again sooner, AND Wolverine let him read his mind several times in the Movie, AND Wolverine game X the advice to do his best to see the X-Men come about. Seriously not that hard to believe that Xavier would continue on the process of making sure the Sentinel program is dead and buried even after Wolverines consciousness leaves the past time flow.

 

[JEDI]

Have a real hard time with the ending, is this basic arc of mutants dying (2&3) to be brought back through this time travel story arc in the comics? I guess what I really want to know is, is this plot device used to bring back characters necessary for a later arc?

Simple yes/no as I don't want to spoil future movie plots.

they don't need something as silly as time travel to bring back chars.

it's easier and less confusing by waving a wand and saying the magic word "reboot"

 

[HumblePie]

Have a real hard time with the ending, is this basic arc of mutants dying (2&3) to be brought back through this time travel story arc in the comics? I guess what I really want to know is, is this plot device used to bring back characters necessary for a later arc?

Simple yes/no as I don't want to spoil future movie plots.

In my opinion, the Sony X-Men movies were the "alternative" time flow universe to begin with. They had very little to do with the comics at all except a few character concepts and names. To me this movie was done to reset all the past screw up and set up future movies to be more inline with the actual comic book story lines. Yes it is a reboot in that sense, but at least it was done very well.

 

[Phoenix86]

@Jedi It's not a reboot, it's the same actors. It's a retcon. The reason for the retcon is kind of important to me. If they are following original story, I'm a bit more OK with it than "hurhurhur more cyclops/wolverine/jean love triangle"...

OK, but aren't there comics with a days of future past arc? What past even did they "fix" if it wasn't the sentinels? Or was it the sentinels with the added bonus of bringing back other characters? Now I'm really confused.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Do you really think Trask is the only person who would be capable of developing some advanced anti mutant technology?

It appears that only his particular kind of anti-mutant technology was unbeatable though. No other solution that humans came up with was going to be as deadly to mutants as the sentinels. Only the mutants from the future and those that they told from the past would know just how effective the final iteration was going to be though, and they certainly aren't going to tell anyone. To the humans in the past the whole sentinel program ends up looking like an easily defeated failure of a plan that has no chance against mutants, and mutants will be content to let them go right on believing that. That's a completely believable scenario too when you consider how many real government funded programs there have been that might have eventually borne fruit, but ended up in the scrapheap instead.

 

[Zeze]

First of all I did enjoy the movie. It was a very refreshing revisit to my favorite X-Men movie of all- First Class.

Two plot holes did rub me the wrong way. And this is already with me having ZERO problems with time travelling continuity. The second one is outright laughable and unforgivable:

***Spoilers below for those who haven't seen yet***

1. Magneto's decision making while controlling the sentinels made little sense. When he had the sentinels go crazy on president, that alone would've been 1000% enough for everyone to shut down Trask (i.e. your robots are dangerous and suck). But he had to go crazy. That's still acceptable as 'Magneto being Magneto'. But he's also a man of reason & wisdom.

2. This is the biggest one- so Magneto just launched a historic attack on United States executives by isolating the White House with a flying football stadium. The mutants' plan foil due to their own differences (i.e. Mystique dropping the gun). So humans are TOTALLY OK with this and mutants have a happy future? That is just awful and forced.


Don't even ignorantly say, "It's a comic book movie about mutants!".

By that logic, a unicorn can come out of nowhere and spray rainbows everywhere for world peace, and it's an equally good movie since it's already dealing with mutants. And all comic book movies are equal in quality.