X-Men: Days of Future Past

[AznAnarchy99]

Magneto doesn't care about co-existence. He cares about mutant supremacy without humans. He went along with everything since Trask would have exterminated mutants.

 

[Zeze]

Magneto doesn't care about co-existence. He cares about mutant supremacy without humans. He went along with everything since Trask would have exterminated mutants.

Yes.

My #2 is, imo, the biggest stupidest flaw in the movie and trumps all the petty comic book vs movie differences & expected continuity when dealing with time travel.

 

[MiataNC]

2. This is the biggest one- so Magneto just launched a historic attack on United States executives by isolating the White House with a flying football stadium. The mutants' plan foil due to their own differences (i.e. Mystique dropping the gun). So humans are TOTALLY OK with this and mutants have a happy future? That is just awful and forced.

^This

I really enjoyed the movie, but there is no way one mutant opting to not kill the President offsets the raw power displayed by Magneto. If anything Mageneto's actions should have started an all out Human vs Mutant war right then and there.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

2. This is the biggest one- so Magneto just launched a historic attack on United States executives by isolating the White House with a flying football stadium. The mutants' plan foil due to their own differences (i.e. Mystique dropping the gun). So humans are TOTALLY OK with this and mutants have a happy future? That is just awful and forced.

You forgot the best part of that sequence: the other mutants, having successfully stopped Magneto, LET HIM LEAVE. It's literally "Charles, if you let them take me they will kill me." "Right you are, cheerio old sport." In what world is that going to fly with the administration? That's like successfully thwarting 9/11 so the planes miss their targets (but still crash), marching Osama bin Laden up to the President and then saying, "Enough of your shenanigans, now run along you scamp!" This guy just tried to murder all the top officials of the government and you HELPED him escape; I'm pretty sure that's treason.

 

[Zeze]

I'm surprised how a Hollywood film of this budget and magnitude stuck with that writing.

I can muster up a MUCH better scenario that's better for humans to swallow in 10 mins.

Like how about--- Charles and Beast speak up at that moment to say, "We're not perfect, and you'd want to categorically executive us all, but we're not all the same." And zoom up to president's face taking it all in, and also how Mystique did drop the gun afterall- and he has some kind of understanding and conviction.

This would even tie in perfectly to Beast being a core White House cabinet member as seen X-Men 3.

What a shitty, awful writing.

 

[smackababy]

2. This is the biggest one- so Magneto just launched a historic attack on United States executives by isolating the White House with a flying football stadium. The mutants' plan foil due to their own differences (i.e. Mystique dropping the gun). So humans are TOTALLY OK with this and mutants have a happy future? That is just awful and forced.

The thing is, the time travel was only used to stop the sentinel program from being advanced to a level that actually threatens nearly everyone in existence (mostly, mutants). And, it got both Charles and Magento "back in the game" much earlier than in the future time line. Charles didn't care about mutants, and Magneto was still imprisoned. This timeline now has them both acting (in their own, very different ways) for the survival of mutants much sooner.

Magento's actions did two main things: showed the sentinel program was hopelessly bad (even though, it actually wasn't, had everything gone to plan) and showed that mutants are the dominant species, regardless of what weapons you possess.

Now, Mystique's (and Charles') actions also did something: showed that, despite being far more powerful, they preferred to live in peace (at least, for now) with humans. And, that on some level, respected human life.

Now, Trask had a way to detecting mutants, however, it is assumed with him jailed, his devices are gone. That makes any action against mutants virtually impossible, save for the very few publicly known mutants. Ones with extreme power (similar to Magneto's) could be hiding in plain sight. If the best interest of surviving is what you want, you don't declare war on mutants (whom you can't stop or even detect). You work to better relations.

 

[Skel]

Uh

1) Xavier caught him in a secret meeting with a bunch of Vietnamese officials, of whom America just ended a war with, in Paris trying to sell Sentinel program information to.

2) Why wouldn't Xavier do this?

This is where a bit of fan knowledge about Xavier and the characters kicks in, but it is seriously not that hard to figure out. Does the movie have to do an LotR ending and spell everything out at the end for you in tying of loose ends perfectly for your self indulgence? Use a bit of imagination and form your own plausibilities. Especially when the movie was about getting Xavier to use his powers again sooner, AND Wolverine let him read his mind several times in the Movie, AND Wolverine game X the advice to do his best to see the X-Men come about. Seriously not that hard to believe that Xavier would continue on the process of making sure the Sentinel program is dead and buried even after Wolverines consciousness leaves the past time flow.

1. It became a very public meeting after the blue lady went flying out the window followed by a blue fur ball attaching a man. It's just as simple, possibly simpler to think that someone other than a mutant either knew the meeting had happened or learned about it after the fact. The idea that it requires a bit of Prof X to step in and help humans is a huge jump.

2. Why would he? Trask had been defeated for all intents, and the future saved. Why would he need to? If anything Mags proved that the whole program had a huge flaw once he magically took them over and turned them on the President. Why would it still need X to step in and break his vow of not playing with people's head? You are taking huge leaps and writing a new version of the ending so it better works for you. It's not what was put out there. If anything saying "Use a bit of imagination and form your own plausibilities." says you're doing it. The only real difference is I'm basing my thoughts on what was presented to me.

I love the X-Men, and have read them for over 30 years. That doesn't mean much to the movies as they're doing their own thing. It's it's own universe and should be based upon it's own thing. I shouldn't have to make leaps for it to make sense. It's their job to tell me a story and have it work, and this movie failed. Was it amusing, have pretty FX and very little substance? Sure, but as I said in another post I've been spoiled with well thought out stuff that didn't require me to use my fan knowledge to make the story work. While I respect you, and your thoughts I am going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

The thing is, the time travel was only used to stop the sentinel program from being advanced to a level that actually threatens nearly everyone in existence (mostly, mutants). And, it got both Charles and Magento "back in the game" much earlier than in the future time line. Charles didn't care about mutants, and Magneto was still imprisoned. This timeline now has them both acting (in their own, very different ways) for the survival of mutants much sooner.

Speaking of "caring about mutants," why do Charles and Beast immediately forget about their time-traveling colleague the second they've neutralized Magneto as a threat? On the car ride home, is Charles saying, "Jesus, Hank, you shouldn't have gotten me so fucked up on anti-mutant crank, I hallucinated a time-traveling bodybuilder with bone claws was following us around..." They just completely abandon him lying at the bottom of the Potomac. Who the fuck does that? "Yeah, normally I'd look for him, but he was kind of a jerk, and I think he knows what he's doing, whatever. I'm missing Sanford and Son!"

And seeing as how Magneto and Xavier get back into mutanting earlier, why doesn't this movie retcon everything else before it? We know X-Men 3 gets skipped because Charles, Jean and Scott are still around in the epilogue, but why the hell is NOTHING else different? Charles is still going to build the school, draft some young people with the story about teaching them to use their powers (when in reality training them as a superhuman paramilitary force), Logan's still getting operated on by Stryker, and apparently still gets shot with the memory-erasing bullshit cannon (there's a movie they should retcon out of existence), and all the political maneuverings the first couple movies take against mutants conveniently ignore the biggest terrorist threat in history ALREADY HAPPENED ON LIVE TV AT THE HANDS OF A MUTANT.

This is the problem with time travel sequels; they fuck up everything before/after them. It would have been a non-issue too, except the movie deliberately shows us an epilogue that appears to take place around the time between X2 and X-Men 3, and that just completely fucks the continuity. It's fan service nonsense that completely undermines the entire point of the film in the first place; that the future can be changed.

Other than that I thought it was really good.

 

[nageov3t]

Speaking of "caring about mutants," why do Charles and Beast immediately forget about their time-traveling colleague the second they've neutralized Magneto as a threat? On the car ride home, is Charles saying, "Jesus, Hank, you shouldn't have gotten me so fucked up on anti-mutant crank, I hallucinated a time-traveling bodybuilder with bone claws was following us around..." They just completely abandon him lying at the bottom of the Potomac. Who the fuck does that? "Yeah, normally I'd look for him, but he was kind of a jerk, and I think he knows what he's doing, whatever. I'm missing Sanford and Son!"

what would they do if they found him?

Wolverine would have had no memory of them and told 'em to fuck off.

 

[HumblePie]

^This

I really enjoyed the movie, but there is no way one mutant opting to not kill the President offsets the raw power displayed by Magneto. If anything Mageneto's actions should have started an all out Human vs Mutant war right then and there.

Uhh it does. But it's not that simple. How do humans know which are mutants and which aren't? Trask had a detector, but with Trask in discredit, and his robots seeming to attack humans, the world doesn't know how well it works. Many mutants look like regular humans. So how do you fight a war against people you can't identify? And what would humans fight with? They know how powerful magneto is, but they have no real way to combat him. Not without someone like Xavier.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

what would they do if they found him?

Wolverine would have had no memory of them and told 'em to fuck off.

First off, Beast and Xavier have absolutely no reason to believe that Logan wouldn't remember them; they don't know that once the connection with Kitty stops, his memory returns to before the connection was made. So they just abandoned a colleague for literally no reason. Second, Xavier is the most powerful psychic mutant on the planet; he probably brainwashed everyone in the government to be allowed to leave after freeing Magneto. I'm sure he could do SOMETHING to demonstrate to Logan that they'd met before. But he didn't even try to find him in the first place. Just, fuck it, let's leave before they ask us to help move this stadium back.

 

[Skel]

Speaking of "caring about mutants," why do Charles and Beast immediately forget about their time-traveling colleague the second they've neutralized Magneto as a threat? On the car ride home, is Charles saying, "Jesus, Hank, you shouldn't have gotten me so fucked up on anti-mutant crank, I hallucinated a time-traveling bodybuilder with bone claws was following us around..." They just completely abandon him lying at the bottom of the Potomac. Who the fuck does that? "Yeah, normally I'd look for him, but he was kind of a jerk, and I think he knows what he's doing, whatever. I'm missing Sanford and Son!"

And seeing as how Magneto and Xavier get back into mutanting earlier, why doesn't this movie retcon everything else before it? We know X-Men 3 gets skipped because Charles, Jean and Scott are still around in the epilogue, but why the hell is NOTHING else different? Charles is still going to build the school, draft some young people with the story about teaching them to use their powers (when in reality training them as a superhuman paramilitary force), Logan's still getting operated on by Stryker, and apparently still gets shot with the memory-erasing bullshit cannon (there's a movie they should retcon out of existence), and all the political maneuverings the first couple movies take against mutants conveniently ignore the biggest terrorist threat in history ALREADY HAPPENED ON LIVE TV AT THE HANDS OF A MUTANT.

This is the problem with time travel sequels; they fuck up everything before/after them. It would have been a non-issue too, except the movie deliberately shows us an epilogue that appears to take place around the time between X2 and X-Men 3, and that just completely fucks the continuity. It's fan service nonsense that completely undermines the entire point of the film in the first place; that the future can be changed.

Other than that I thought it was really good.

One of the questions I have is Wolverine wakes up in this new future without any knowledge of what's happened after the 70s. Everyone knows and loves him, yet he knows little on what's going on. Prof X just looks at him and goes "Oh there you are!" What happened to the Wolverine that everyone knew and went to bed? Why doesn't Prof X seem to care about him?

 

[smackababy]

First off, Beast and Xavier have absolutely no reason to believe that Logan wouldn't remember them; they don't know that once the connection with Kitty stops, his memory returns to before the connection was made. So they just abandoned a colleague for literally no reason. Second, Xavier is the most powerful psychic mutant on the planet; he probably brainwashed everyone in the government to be allowed to leave after freeing Magneto. I'm sure he could do SOMETHING to demonstrate to Logan that they'd met before. But he didn't even try to find him in the first place. Just, fuck it, let's leave before they ask us to help move this stadium back.

How do you know they didn't look for him? He drowned. Mystique (who likely went back with Charles) DID find him.

One of the questions I have is Wolverine wakes up in this new future without any knowledge of what's happened after the 70s. Everyone knows and loves him, yet he knows little on what's going on. Prof X just looks at him and goes "Oh there you are!" What happened to the Wolverine that everyone knew and went to bed? Why doesn't Prof X seem to care about him?

Wtf are you talking about? Did you not watch the movie? Charles knew this was the Logan he once knew. He even asked him "what is the last thing you remember?". Charles knew this would happen, and upon it happening, was going to fill him in.

 

[Skel]

How do you know they didn't look for him? He drowned. Mystique (who likely went back with Charles) DID find him.



Wtf are you talking about? Did you not watch the movie? Charles knew this was the Logan he once knew. He even asked him "what is the last thing you remember?". Charles knew this would happen, and upon it happening, was going to fill him in.

When he walked into the room, Prof X was talking to him about teaching history. Wolverine says something to the effect that he hasn't a clue wtf Prof X is talking about. Prof X goes, "There you are old friend" (Or close enough) and then asks "What is the last thing you remember?" My question is, what happened to History teaching Wolverine that Prof X was expecting to walk in the door. That Wolverine seemed loved and everyone knew him. What happened to him, and why didn't Prof X care?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

When he walked into the room, Prof X was talking to him about teaching history. Wolverine says something to the effect that he hasn't a clue wtf Prof X is talking about. Prof X goes, "There you are old friend" (Or close enough) and then asks "What is the last thing you remember?" My question is, what happened to History teaching Wolverine that Prof X was expecting to walk in the door. That Wolverine seemed loved and everyone knew him. What happened to him, and why didn't Prof X care?

I mean IMO he's still the same dude. He just needs a refresher on what happened since.

 

[Skel]

I mean IMO he's still the same dude. He just needs a refresher on what happened since.

This memory version of Wolverine overwrote the other one. The body is the same but the brain/soul/whatever inside is different. This Wolverine never went through the same stuff the one that taught history did. Even if Prof X filled him in on everything that happened he'd still not feel the same, or even think the same. This Wolverine watched the Sentinels kill everything he cared about, the one that taught history didn't.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Also, the movie says that "no one is going to have memories of this future except you," right? OK, so Logan is the only one whose consciousness has seen the devastation of the sentinel program fully realized; that makes sense. But Charles and Beast and them still lived through at least the beginning of it; they're still going to have memories of Trask and Magneto almost killing the President and the other events that happened in the 70s. And one of those events is Charles reading Logan's mind and seeing the Weapon X program that Colonel Stryker puts Logan through. Do you think Charles felt guilty when Logan walks through his door all those years later? Like, "oh yeah, this guy who helped us in the 70s is totally still alive and I let him get subjected to that nasty Weapon X stuff even though I knew it was going to happen and could have stopped it. That was shitty of me. But on the plus side, at least he's MUCH more useless against Magneto now that he's completely metallic. For a psychic, I'm really shitty at controlling events I've already seen happen."

Basically, the movie completely drops the ball when it comes to tying up all the loose ends that time travel paradoxes inevitably create, and it does this solely so it can show a scene with Anna Paquin and Famke Janssen alive and well.

 

[SlitheryDee]

When he walked into the room, Prof X was talking to him about teaching history. Wolverine says something to the effect that he hasn't a clue wtf Prof X is talking about. Prof X goes, "There you are old friend" (Or close enough) and then asks "What is the last thing you remember?" My question is, what happened to History teaching Wolverine that Prof X was expecting to walk in the door. That Wolverine seemed loved and everyone knew him. What happened to him, and why didn't Prof X care?

This thought occurred to me as well. The first three xmen movies all happen "in the not so distant future", and this latest one is 10 years after that. I guess we could safely call the year when the mutants are sending wolverine back to stop the sentinel program somewhere around 2025-2030. The events in the past where the two wolverines diverge occur in 1973. That means there could be as much as 57 years of completely different memories separating them. At the end of that time we're talking about two different individuals, one of which is obliterated without so much as a eulogy when the version of Wolverine with memories that are entirely irrelevant to the timeline he exists in highjacks the Wolverine that had been building a life there for the last 50 odd years. He probably had to go to school to be qualified to teach history for Christ's sake, and Xavier acts like the "real" Wolverine has finally returned? What makes the other one any less valid than the one that suddenly popped into existence that morning?

 

[Zeze]

Someone refresh my memory- where did Xavier get all that money to fund Xavier school in X-Men: First Class?

 

[Skel]

This thought occurred to me as well. The first three xmen movies all happen "in the not so distant future", and this latest one is 10 years after that. I guess we could safely call the year when the mutants are sending wolverine back to stop the sentinel program somewhere around 2025-2030. The events in the past where the two wolverines diverge occur in 1973. That means there could be as much as 57 years of completely different memories separating them. At the end of that time we're talking about two different individuals, one of which is obliterated without so much as a eulogy when the version of Wolverine with memories that are entirely irrelevant to the timeline he exists in highjacks the Wolverine that had been building a life there for the last 50 odd years. He probably had to go to school to be qualified to teach history for Christ's sake, and Xavier acts like the "real" Wolverine has finally returned? What makes the other one any less valid than the one that suddenly popped into existence that morning?

I honestly can't imagine Wolverine going to college and getting qualified to teach history, but the images it creates are funny. Maybe he was a huge dick but Xavier kept telling everyone to ignore it as the future version was going to take his place soon.

Someone refresh my memory- where did Xavier get all that money to fund Xavier school in X-Men: First Class?

He was born into it. I believe they said he came from a really rich family. I could, however be confusing it as the comics had him born into it. They never really said (that I remember reading) how the family made it's fortune. Much like most comics, his family was rich because they needed to be.

 

[HumblePie]

This memory version of Wolverine overwrote the other one. The body is the same but the brain/soul/whatever inside is different. This Wolverine never went through the same stuff the one that taught history did. Even if Prof X filled him in on everything that happened he'd still not feel the same, or even think the same. This Wolverine watched the Sentinels kill everything he cared about, the one that taught history didn't.

And that was the risk Wolverine knew going in. He accepted that risk when he took the job. Also, MOST of their memories and experiences would be the same. There would be differences, but overall, the major difference in timelines would revolve around the changes enacted by their actions in 1973. Wolverine would still be a loner on his own after his future self was no longer controlling his past self until Xavier comes to get him later to form the X-Men. So all that he does there would be essentially the same. The differences are that Xaver, through reading Wolverine's mind, is able to avert what kills Jean, Scott, and others. Those are going to be very different in relation to what the Sentinel Wolverine had for memories. But then again, those shouldn't change who he fundamentally was either as Wolverine's character has been built over centuries of time. A few altered decades of memories won't change who he is.

Also, it really isn't that hard for Xavier to plant those memories back into him either. So to catch back up and relive those memories via Xavier wouldn't be out of the question.

 

[smackababy]

This thought occurred to me as well. The first three xmen movies all happen "in the not so distant future", and this latest one is 10 years after that. I guess we could safely call the year when the mutants are sending wolverine back to stop the sentinel program somewhere around 2025-2030. The events in the past where the two wolverines diverge occur in 1973. That means there could be as much as 57 years of completely different memories separating them. At the end of that time we're talking about two different individuals, one of which is obliterated without so much as a eulogy when the version of Wolverine with memories that are entirely irrelevant to the timeline he exists in highjacks the Wolverine that had been building a life there for the last 50 odd years. He probably had to go to school to be qualified to teach history for Christ's sake, and Xavier acts like the "real" Wolverine has finally returned? What makes the other one any less valid than the one that suddenly popped into existence that morning?

Wolverine is qualified to teach history, because he lived it. And, Wolverine (and I'd imagine Professor X) knew the risks associated with sending his mind back to alter the past. He gave up that peaceful Wolverine in order for everyone else to not experience the death and destruction of the sentinel program.

I'm sure everyone appreciates you're bleeding heart for the Wolverine that only knew peace (in those 50 years), but get over it.

 

[JEDI]

who were those guys that mystique freed in Vietnam?
I only recognized havoc and toad

 

[HumblePie]

Someone refresh my memory- where did Xavier get all that money to fund Xavier school in X-Men: First Class?

He was born into it mostly. Then has substantial financial holdings inherited to him.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

who were those guys that mystique freed in Vietnam?
I only recognized havoc and toad

Spike from the X-Men Evolution series. The radioactive guy I don't know.